Yes. Let him find his own place, if he wants to live like this.

Yes hence the real definition of the word,"Mad".

It wasn't fair, and people screw up, but it doesn't have to define you

I like your sigline about having a wishbone where a back bone should be, I am quite sure you understand what it means now.

How do we develop those strong backbones? Just like in nature through standing on our own, as the good Lord intended.

There is a book called "The road less travelled", by Scott Peck, a priest and clinical Shink, that has a lot about people and strength in it, also about marriage and emotional development. Kids adults, and what have you

Your a smart girl you should add it to your library

What you do now will have long term effects on the kids that they will remember.

Yeah the kids, our extensions of ourselves, we can make life different for them

God bless WPG

Dear friend, I'm horrified that this has so quickly approached personal violence against you and your babies, and do not be deluded, that is the path down which it is headed.

I just don't know how to proceed.

No one does, when the need arises out of seemingly nowhere. Available resources (family, community) differ for each victim, but the answer cannot be "nothing".

And as painful as this might be for me to relate, if you recall from the horror story that is my d-night history, in our NY jurisdiction, allegedly "reckless" damage to property exceeding $250 got me arrested and banned from my home. It would not be unreasonable for your jurisdiction to have something similar. Explore that, please, before the reason that BH gets eventually brought under control is assault or battery against you or your girls.

Hi all�I suppose it�s time for an update. Been lurking but haven�t felt that I had anything to contribute lately.

broken moved out this past weekend. He signed a 6-month lease on an efficiency apartment a couple miles from the house. His mother is helping him with the rent.

It is not a sufficient separation, as the only thing that has been accomplished is we do not sleep under the same roof, and do not have to do the nightly �avoidance dance� that we had been doing. He still sees the girls every day, which is great, but that also means I�m seeing him every day as well. He intends to go to the house during the day to do some of the work we�d been planning to do and already had the supplies for. I stopped going home for lunch months ago, so I didn't have to see him during the day. He had asked me to pick up some smokes a couple weeks ago (after the computer-throwing incident and before he moved out) and I offered to bring them home at lunch since I was headed out at lunchtime anyway, and he texted me and asked if I wanted to �get naked for lunch.� After I sat here at my desk and cried for a few minutes, I texted back and told him that I just get confused. The rest of the exchange went like this:

broken: ok�u just mentioned that I didn�t want it anymore�but that was because u said I was just using you for sex and I was like all other guys
me: but if you don�t want to be with me, then aren�t you still using me for sex? I�m sorry�I just don�t know what you want our relationship to look like�???
broken: no�it�s just satisfying a need we both have�so I guess you would be using me too�just thought since you mentioned it the other night it was something you still wanted
me: I don�t want to be a wh*re anymore, only good for that. It just hurts too much. I am sorry�I tried to save us, I tried to make things up to you but I did too much damage. I wanted to fix us. I wanted you.
broken: ok�but I never meant for you to feel like a wh*re�that was never my intention�
me: I guess I never knew what your intentions were after you found out the truth about me. Mine was that I wanted to save our marriage. I guess now it is too late.

Funny that now I have little to no desire for sex anymore with anybody, and it was one of my top 5 ENs once upon a time.

Once the work on the house is complete, we�ll decide what to do with it. Hopefully he�ll have found a job by then and will be able to afford a place where the kids can stay with him � he�s got no kitchen other than a fridge and microwave, and no room for the kids to sleep�so there�s really no option for him to be with the kids at present other than be at the house with them. We�re planning on alternating weekends, so this weekend will be my first to go stay with my mom.

I told him we can go ahead and file for divorce, but he said we don�t have to do that right now, that we could wait. I asked him if this was really what he wanted, and he said he didn�t know, that maybe he needed time to decide what he wanted, that his life was pretty depressing right now with the job loss and everything else, and maybe he just needed time alone to figure it out. He has already had about 10 months out of the house, although he said it wasn�t �alone� b/c the stepmom was there. I don�t need his consent to file in our state.

Am I done? I don�t know. It�s not what I want. But I don�t think I�ll ever get what I want, not from him�maybe I could have if I didn�t hurt him the way I did, but that�s something I�ll never know the answer to. I�ve got a new email now that he does not have the password to, and I went back on FB (locked down as much as is possible on FB from anyone I don�t want to find me, no �friends� with any past romantic connections, even so much as unrequited crushes). But there are friends I miss and family I can communicate with through it, and I�m tired of being out of the loop. The irony is that broken is the first one I want to talk to when something happens, not post it on FB, but what�s the point. Decided that the girls and I are going to get a dog, which is not something he ever wanted to do, but I want a companion for the girls, a running buddy, and a watchdog. Teaching at night again, not because I missed it, but from financial necessity.

I understand I can�t detach and heal until I Plan B, but I simply don�t know how to Plan B in the current financial situation. Part of it, I think, will be me developing my own boundaries with him. For now, I suppose we�re stuck in limbo still, but at least I have some peace at night after the girls have gone to bed, and my anxiety levels have dropped tremendously in just a few short days.

Wulffpack girl, I am sorry to hear this. But I do think that it is what you need to start your own healing. Speak to broken and get something in writing about how the bills will be handled. Also, come up with an alternative for him spending time with the kids. If this is what he wants, then he needs to find someplace to visit them and not invade your space. He gave that option up by moving out and abandoning the family.

Get yourself to a dark place of healing and personal recovery. Take care of you and your kids.

((hugs))

For your own sanity, PLEASE stop communicating with him. At the very least, STOP talking to him about anything but kid logistics.

I completely agree that you don't need to let him in the house to see your kids. It's his problem - let him deal with it.

If he sends you personal requests, either ignore or just text back "no". Stop buying him smokes. And stop apologizing. Just stop engaging.

Perhaps, in future, you can work to rebuild a relationship with him. But right now you need to separate from him in every way for the sake of your own health.

I'd say "I'm sorry", but the sorrow was generated months ago, as Broken seemed unwilling to move past the disruption, and look a better future life in the face.

It appears that he (and you) will be reverting to the "not separated/not married" states you were in over a year ago. Will you be okay living in the shared-habitat cycle that seems to be presenting itself? For how long?

You (and he) might console yourself with the, "It's better for the kids," rationale, but it really isn't, and you probably know that.

But I don�t think I�ll ever get what I want, not from him...

Again, Wulffie, this is a deja vu sentiment you're expressing. Somehow, someway you need to change the "think" to "realize" for your own good. What evidence would you need? He has abused you verbally and emotionally for years now. He's petulantly "taking his ball and going home" ... again!

NOBODY is driving this recovery bus, my friend.

WPG,

Your story scares me. I do not want to be in the same situation in two years.

Both you and Broken have done wrong to each other (and your marriage and your kids) and you both have to make amends. It is similar to when a BS becoming a WS. It doesn't make things even. Each WS must provide just compensation. Broken owes you a lot for the damage he has done. He has to take ownership for his own bad choices.

You have to do something drastic unless you want to live in purgatory for the rest of your life (which some people do). I think the consensus is go dark... even kid talks must be through a third party.

If you are going to let him come back, you are going to have to make some demands in order to stop enabling his behavior.

Wolfie I know it will sound familiar, but Many of us understand and have been there.

Please seperate as far as possible as soon as possible.

Rip off the bandaid covering the infection, and let in the 02 so you can heal, and the girls too.

The best to you WPG

I'm glad to see you've established a healthy boundary. That's a huge step toward recovering your dignity.

I would suggest starting the divorce filing. Your H shoudn't be the one that has to take this step. IMVHO, It really is part of just compensation.


When my parents seperated, divorced, occasionally played house together and still had occasional sex together, it was extremely confusing for myself and my sisters. Boundaries, or lack thereof, were being taught and caught during those years that my parents never thought about.

I'm glad you're still posting and keeping us updated.

WG,

The odd thing about your thread is that the affair was never properly exposed to OMW. I wonder if your BH was waiting for you to do so as proof of your making amends to all the people you harmed.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma, I sent an email to her work email address in December 2010, before broken moved out the first time. Because so much time had elapsed, and she had recently had a baby, i was advised on this thread not to do the exposure myself, to let him do it, because it could be seen as me breaking NC. He recieved similar advice on his thread. He refused to contact her and would not discuss it with me. When I was on the radio show with the Harley's (I can't remember if it was the first or second time I was on the show), they asked me about exposure and I said I had sent the email but had not received a response. I bc'ed broken on the email. Yes, I suppose an email was a cowardly way to do it. I never heard from her, nor have I heard from OM. I have no idea what is going on in his life, which is exactly how it should be.

With family and friends, I did a self-exposure, first to all those I'd lied to right along with broken, including my parents, my closest friends, and his aunt When he moved out the first time, I told his mother and sister, and stepmother, because I did not want anyone to blame broken for the death of out marriage.

Resepct yourself. Respect your daughters.

Time to go Dark.


You can continue not knowing what you want in Plan B - and maybe he can figure out what the H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEY-STICKS he wants.


Cut the cord, sister. It's time.

R-E-S-E-P-C-T!

Find out what it means to me!


Ugh....

WPG,

The only time I would suggest Plan B for your situation is;

1) You're unable to keep healthy boundaries with your STBXH.

2) Your emotional health becomes unstable because of normal parental contact with your STBXH.

Plan B by a FWS would not save this marriage. That's not who Dr. Harley designed the plan for. The plan is for the emotional well being of the BS. Dr. Harley already gave you this opinion as well.

The FWS has no reason to plan B their spouse other than the reasons mentioned above.

If he were "waiting," then I'm sure he wouldn't be having sex with her.

If that's how he feels, he can say so himself.

Her husband is an abusive, angry man, and Dr. Harley's advice in such situations is for her to separate. He personally advised her to enter Plan B for her health and safety, and I think that was before he knew about the violent outbursts that have since been described in this thread, which make separation even more urgent.

Let's all encourage WPG to follow Dr. Harley's advice and offer her all the support possible on how to make that happen.

Sex and violence so closely related in nature.
Conflict and creation, also part of the growth process in life.

Broken might not want to accept the state of your marriage Pre-affair was in bad shape, and his nature as a man who has violent tendencys and the refusal for both of you to deal with the relationship via getting help had a lot to do with it's demise. That is his choice and it gives no excuse for his frustration and getting more angry.

DR H has laid out the science of human relations and has stated that recovery is very hard, and also that it takes hard work. It makes no sense to try and create peace and harmony with violence and destruction

Do not sleep with him anymore if he is not on board with the recovery program laid out in MB, or has no control over himself and his anger. Sex does releive tension, but he is not completly a raging bull is he? No he's not, and your not his victim either

It's time he gets help for these things, for everyone concerned, and the
statement your DD said, about how it was good that he broke the PC, is a
classic example that she is taking responsibility for his anger.

Let him be alone and figure out how he contributed to the state of the marriage relationship, and get ahold of himself also. Yes he has to heal, but destroying in anger is counterproductive across the board, and to me it's always about the kids first. They didn't ask to be born ya know?

He's a big boy now and has children, minimize the damage we inflict with our foolish human emotions, even what seems so normal and just a human part of us

WPG was personally advised by Dr. Harley some time back to to into Plan B - specifically to protect her own health.

I understand this HHH. Prior to the advice you mention, he told her NOT to do Plan B.

My basic premise still stands!

It doesn't appear from WPG's updated posts that her mental/physical health is still at risk. So why Plan B ??
I think Plan B would be a waste of effort on her part, unless my reason 1 & 2 are at risk.

Just my .02

I am not sure I am following you, but I haven't read all of the updates.

The last time I looked, her husband's explosive anger had led him to destroy his daughter's laptops and scare them to death.

If he doesn't have a plan to get help for this, then Plan B is definitely warranted, on that count alone.

Plus, he is degrading her emotional health by harassing her for sex without being willing to meet her emotional needs and form a true emotional bond.


That would depend on what the goals are.