Jeff,
Do you not have any self respect and pride in yourself?

Good lord man. What are you doing here?

I hope you grow a pair overnight in your sleep, wake up and realize what the hell is going in here. I am guessing she doesn't lay golden eggs. That would be the only reason I could imagine anyone putting up with this crap for more than 1 minute.

This I do not get.

How can you say he doesn't deserve this? Is someone holding a gun to his head MAKING him stay? I agree in theory he doesn't deserve it. But, he is subjecting HIMSELF to this for reasons I can't imagine.

Her activities are beyond extreme. Until he makes a stand, imo, he deserves everything he gets under these circumstances.

Who takes this kind of abuse and then laughs about setting her up to masturbate with him on-line thinking he is someone else? Who takes this kind of abuse and stands by KNOWING she is acting just insane?

Convince me that he doesn�t deserve it. He simply stands by on the sidelines watching her do despicable things and does nothing to stop it or take a stand. I have seen some really unstable WW�s on this board but I think this one of the most extreme.

Don't mean to be snarky but good lord he has every opportunity to walk the hell away at any time and not subject himself to her abuse.

This is his choice. No one else.

ITA. You, Jeff, are a Volunteer.

Whoa now, let's pump the brakes a little here. I think it's clear to most what I meant, and I think you do as well if you think about it and leave YOUR emotions out of it, but I do see where you are coming from. Yeah, he's bringing all of this on himself because he's afraid to stand up for himself. Believe me, I get that...been getting it his entire thread. Hell, I've been telling him to get out of this from the beginning.

I'm quite sure we think alike on this.

I knew what you meant. I hope you didn't think I was disagreeing with your post, Viper. I've told Jeff to hit the bricks, too, because he seems like a good guy who deserves better.

That's why I can't figure out why he would volunteer to put himself in this position.

Jeff,

Have you emailed Dr. Harley and asked him?
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

Ageed.

I do get really fired up when I hear of someone saying they don't deserve this or they don't deserve that when they have 2 legs which they can use to move their body out of harm�s way. Be it verbal abuse, physical abuse (unless restrained) etc.

It is one thing when one makes decisions in life when are unaware of the facts. We don�t know what we don�t know. However, when one is cognizant of the facts and CHOOSE to be abused, that is their prerogative.

They deserve what they get.

It really irritates me because as I said, unless someone puts a gun to your head or ties you down, imo, they deserve everything they get. We all have the ability to choose what our boundaries are and are fully able to walk away at any time.

Didn't think that for a second. I can't figure this one out as well. I appreciate his efforts, but severely question his desire to be the biggest glutton for punishment I've seen on this board for a year or better.

This is insane.

I bought an ex-girlfriend a cell phone and an iBook once. She immediately started cheating. Best investment I ever made, and I got the heck out of there.


I grew up the same way. I, too, "fell away". My classmates and fellow churchgoers wanted nothing to do with me.

She's probably dealing with the fact her family doesn't accept her behaviour, and an addict's reaction is to go consume more of whatever they're addicted to.

What's her family saying to you?

My hope springs eternal, and I'm in a similar situation to you with a WW--but believe me when I say that you are doing nothing but harming both yourself and her by tolerating this behaviour. Get a divorce. If she doesn't want a divorce, she'll have to prove to you that she's changed.

20YH, not sure where you are coming from here, but I'm kind of sure I never suggested that what he is doing now is in his best interest. Hell yeah, what he is doing right now is killing him, and I can't even begin to understand why he is even thinking about trying to recover this. What is there to recover? You can't recover what never was established to begin with.

I was talking about his future, and yes, he does deserve better.

Jeff, you've given SO MANY reasons as to why you should divorce her - the obvious internet crap, the ongoing lies, she's too fat for you, she can't have kids, etc.

And yet, you are talking about moving away to start over and shopping for $6000 mattresses (geez, I can't even get my own husband to do that and I am a faithful dutiful wife!).

So, are you actually interested in doing any sort of MB plan which may involve actual separation and/or divorce? Or, are you waiting for all of this to blow over and for her to (as a previous poster said), have an epiphany and suddenly become a loving faithful wife to you?

I suspect you're just riding this one out because you are too scared to get a divorce. And she knows it.

You're pretending to play hardball Poker and trying to bluff her - but Jeff, your cards are backwards and she can read them plain as day

Now what?

You, Jeff, are a Volunteer.

Only in the sense that you or I would be able to take an alternate path, MB. JR does not have that option.

He has been very conscientious about answering questions - with one salient exception.

Several weeks ago I pointedly asked (presuming to know the answer) if he had been raised without a strong male presence as a father-figure. His silence on this matter speaks volumes.

JR has an over-developed need for approval/attention from female authority figures ("Go back home? Okay, but only with my Mommy!" W - T - F ?), as surrogates for that sole parenting locus that nurtured him. Even enduring abuse from such a figure is acceptable as long as the attention is there. (Seriously, an overweight nurse? Can we get any more basic than that?)

So, she'll let her fingers do the walking tonight, and call JR tomorrow, and he'll receive his needed strokes by discussing buying her a new bed, or moving to Atlanta, or whatever. They appear to be ideal for each other just as they are.

He will never divorce her. She may divorce him, if she tires of torturing him. More likely she'll simply remove herself from his presence, calling him every so often to twist his tail once more.

But "volunteer"? No, more like "indentured servant"!

I guess you are all right about me. I guess I am thinking she'll snap out of it & become a loving wife.

She did mention last night, I was shocked...that she knew I was trying to get into her phone...and that she knew someone (accusing me) tried to hack into her email account (she got an email from google saying this).
So she knows I was at least trying to spy on her.

She added that she has not been talking to anyone.


Yes, she did a lot of online dating before I knew her. She used the same dating site that she jumped on 2 weeks after I moved out.

The part that hurt me, is the email she sent to this James guy this past Tuesday. Telling him that she'll miss him..etc.

I know...my family says that I am a gluttony for punishment. That I am trying to kill myself.

I've actually thought about doing this. I feel like a failure & maybe killing myself would relieve the pain.
I can't believe I am going thru this twice in my life. I am 41 now & I can't seem to have a marriage last more than 6 years. I feel like that no one can be with me, that there must be something wrong with me.

Jeff, when you base your self-worth on whether or not your partner values you, then you're really playing Russian Roulette, particularly when you choose a partner that doesn't have respect for ANYONE (not you, not herself, and certainly not for internet boy toys).

You need to learn to love yourself before someone can truly love you. I also suspect that you have passed by many suitable potential wives because you keep drawing yourself to poor matches.

MB can still help you after a divorce, and help you learn how to pick a partner. You don't know how to pick a partner and that's how this happen.s

I am so lost....
She mentioned in the counseling session that she complained to me often about what I needed to change. That I needed to get control over my social anxiety. I don't believe I have it, b/c I do all sorts of things that don't fall into that.

I can see that she doesnt have respect for herself. She certainly didnt (doesnt) have any for me. She actually mentions that she doesnt in a message to one of the dating site guys.

I am having such a hard time reading her & what she wants...
On one hand she wants the mattress (she even suggested that she would buy it for herself) & wants to move to Atlanta.

This morning she seemed distant. I asked her if she was going to look online for a hotel to stay at. She responded that she doubted it, that she had a lot to do at work today.


I have not contacted her family since all this blew up. For all I know, they hate me.

My family certainly hates her. They are wanting me to leave her for what she has put me thru & for also what we know she has been doing.

I just feel like ending my life. I have felt so much pain in the past 8-9 years, that I have thought about it several times. I have everything ready to go to do it. I know it would hurt my family, but the pain is so severe.

My cousin got me to admit to something.
....that if I had a guarantee that I could find someone that I could love & be loved by, in say the next few months....I would walk away. But I am so unsure about this. There are no guarantees.

My cousin asked me what would I miss about my WW. I said that I would miss the hugs, kisses & physicality aspects.
She said that if I truly loved my WW, then there would be way more reasons to stay.

Jeff,

There is another factor in play with your bad luck, and that is that nowadays there are just so many ways to cheat, and so much approval, enablement and support for cheating, that it's not all about you but also about the surrounding culture.

Apply the tools you have picked up here at MB and date a number of women, as recommended by Dr. Harley, I think you will be able to detect and reject the bad apples.

Keep reading here and make yourself into a more desirable partner. There are plenty of good women who are looking for someone like yourself.

God Bless
Gamma

Jeff
I strongly encourage you to visit an AlAnon meeting.
AlAnon can teach you not to be codependent on others.
I am a member and it sved my sanity.

AlAnon taught me that the problem wasn't my cheating wife. It was myself. I reacted to her infidelity with despair.

You are reacting to your wife's infidelity with despair.
Please visit an AlAnon meeting. In most areas there is a meeting every night.

Also please visit a doctor for your depression. Suicidal thoughts are a major red flag of depression and the doctor can prescribe medication that will help you feel better and think more clearly.

Can you do those two things today?

She wants you to leave her the hell alone so that she can screw around and watch herself in the mirror while collecting money from you. That's what she wants.

So when you try to get her to make a decision, you'll get these half-[censored] responses just so that you'll stay interested long enough to hang around and finance her life.

I flat out guarantee you that, if you will only leave this woman for one month, you'll have a whole different perspective on life and will feel so much better about your prospects.

She ain't marriage material, hoss. You're hanging onto some dream of something that never was and never will be.

Jeff, you've mentioned suicidal ideation twice today but I would caution you to consider that this is perhaps another manifestation of the root of your problem: victim mentality. When one is continually a victim, they are always seeking an outside source to "save" them. Victims attract abusers. Victims remain victims forever until they CHOOSE to not be victims anymore.

Alcoholics are victims to the alcohol, drug addicts are victims to the drugs, and codependent people are victim to whoever will take on the role with them. The solution is to quit drinking, quit using drugs, and quit seeking out partners willing to take advantage of a victim mentality, rather than tossing away the wonderful gift of life.

Once upon a time, I worked in emergency services with suicidal people. It was a very consistent trait that most of them were seeking for the world to save them, rather than take the steps to save themselves. Those that saved themselves, came out of their own "fog". Those who continually sought outside validation/support to save themselves, were "repeat customers" for years and years.

I'll look for one here in Tallahassee, FL

I am taking anti-depressants.

Yeah I can see that I am codependent on her.

She made a comment last night while we watched tv.
She can talk about sex as if its a usually topic.
There was a show about resturants & the feature was the sandwich shop where Harry met Sally was filmed...the infamous sex scene.
My WW mentioned that no woman says that sort of thing. That she has never been a name caller.
I was shocked to hear this from her. I really didnt want to hear that my WW had a sexual history before me. Esp with what has recently happened. She just doesnt think with a filter.