Hi everyone! I have not been on here for a long time. Several years ago, I went through a divorce and received some wonderful advice through this website, so thank you to all of you who helped me through that situation.

Now, I think about dating from time to time and have gone out a few times, but I find that I am too old-fashioned for this dating era. I still do not beleive in sex before marriage. I know, I'm alone in this... I receive very few matched on sites like Match.com... although this is the site that I found to be the most productive for finding dates. I wonder, though what your thoughts are on the subject of extra-marital sex for those of us who are single-again. Also, how do you justify your position on the subject? I could not go against my conscious, since the Bible teaches us that going against our conscious is an offense to our soul and to God. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Dr Harley has a book for singles : buyers Renters and Freeloaders.

Morally the Bible teaches us not to have sex outside of marriage.

We all have sex drives ; personally I will strive to resist sex before marriage. In my case, pre marital sex caused pregnancy and I asked my ex wife to marry me (out of moral honor). Which resulted in a sexless marriage for the next 10 years.
So sex only gets me in trouble. LOL.

Thanks for the reply. I agree that resistance is the best policy. I just can't seem to find the guys that agree with me! It seems to be a free-for-all out there! Makes me feel so alone. Nice to know someone out there agrees with me!

Hi Lamby, thanks for bringing this topic up; I too have been wondering about this. Does anyone know what Dr. Harley's position on sex before marriage is? Any radio broadcast links on this? (hint, hint, BrainHurts are you there? ) I haven't found anything on this website or in any of his books that specifically addresses this topic.

Meeting emotional needs is an important part of his philosophy, and his case for dating 30 people before deciding to get married is that it gives you an opportunity to see what your needs are and what needs you're good at meeting.

In his book "I Promise You," he talks about the time leading up to marriage as a time for a couple to make sure that they enjoy meeting each other's needs. He doesn't explicity exclude the need for Sexual Fulfillment, but he doesn't specifically include it either. He seems to leave it up to each individual couple to decide based on their own moral views, or biblical principles, or anything else that guides them in this area.

I have mixed feelings about this topic, and I've been wondering if there's any direct reference to it by Dr. Harley that anyone's aware of. I would like to know his opinion about this. Thanks!

My sister in law has a friend that gets her dates on match.com and she said the men always expect sex.

Maybe you should try a Christian dating website or events

Here's a clip of why Dr. Harley says living together before marriage isn't a good idea and I'm still looking for sex before marriage.
Radio clip on living together before marriage

Found it. Dr. Harley clearly States you shouldn't have it.
Radio clip on pre-marital sex

Thanks BrainHurts! I agree completely with his advice to not live together before marriage; not only are the statistics against it, but his reasoning for why it sets people up for failure seems to be spot on. I will listen to the radio link since I've only read his advice, never heard it.

Still curious about his views on sex before marriage.

We posted at the same time.

First off lamby

I agree this is a good topic to have brought up.

My thoughts on this have drastically changed from that of my youth. I doubt the whole dating scene is going to be sexual free for all (but then again I am not dating since I am still married).....there would have to be quality people out there that will respect your wishes. I know when I am in a position to date and emotionally ready to date this will certainly be an issue that I will have to address myself. If anyone I would date would not respect my wishes, morals, and values.....then they will have failed the test and would not be worth my time.

Part of this may be Match.com. From what I've heard (purely anecdotal), it's a sexual free for all on that site. Maybe ChristianMingle or eHarmony may be more your style? Personally I wouldn't have an issue with a potential date not wanting to have sex outside of marriage but I also know I'm in the minority of single guys. It's a very different dating world out there apparently.

Hmmm, I listened to it, but I am baffled. Aside from hearing "Joyce and I are against premarital sex", I did not hear a single reason for that POV. In fact, if anything, the caller's situation suggests that had they NOT had sex before marriage, a huge issue would have been swept under the rug, presumably to be discovered only after marriage.

I am all for holding off on sex for those who want to based on morality reasons, but otherwise I believe that sex in a monogomaous dating relationship is useful to determine compatibility. Given that sexual compatibility is as critical as most other areas, I don't understand why someone would want to get married without determining that compatibility (again, not counting those who want to avoid it based on their moral/religious POVs)...

AGG

Hi Lamby~
I mainly lurk here, but wanted to chime in.

I'm right there with you. Although I have not dated since my D nor am I on any dating sites, I firmly hold to abstinence before marriage. My ex and I did have sex before marriage which I KNEW was wrong and I wonder if it contributed to our downfall.

I follow a Christian single blogger named Kim Brooks. She adamantly preaches abstinence before marriage. She made a good point once that any guy that puts his needs before your desires and causes you to want to sin, is not a guy you need to be with.

Now, that being said, I am worried that b/c it's been SOOOO long since good SF, that it will be VERY VERY hard to remain abstinent. I can already tell you that Satan is FURIOUS that he didn't destroy me (along with my marriage) and that this WILL BE an area of temptation for me, so I'm going to have be on my top guard.

And FYI, I have a friend that's on Christian Mingle. While she hasn't dated any guys from there yet, ones she's chatted with seem to be on the same page as abstinence.

Happy Birthday!!!

Speaking of compatibility, I knew a woman before I got married. She was divorced when I met her and she told me she was married for 1 year and te guy insisted on no sex until marriage. well it turned out he was impotent!
So I can understand your point about compatibility

I so know how you feel!! I dated for the first time in 1999 after my H of 20 years left me. I told my first date that I wasn't the jump in bed type so if that is what he was looking for he was looking in the wrong place. He was the only guy I dated and we got married in 2000.

That is good way to rule out the guys who just looking for nookie. yucko!! Many women put out for free these days, so if that is the type of woman they are looking for there are plenty others out there who can oblige. If someone won't date you because you won't jump in the hay, they flunked the first interview and you know you can move on!

Compatibility is CREATED, though. One doesn't have to put out before the marriage in order to be compatible in bed. There are 2 things that ensure a great sex life: romantic love and the prospect of enjoyment. If both partners are in love and are willing to please one another and to be honest with the other partner about what pleases them, then compatibility is pretty much assured. Having a great sex life is much, much more involved that just putting out like a porn queen. Even a prostitute can do that; it sure doesn't guarantee "compatibility."

People can learn to satisfy each other in bed just as easy AFTER they are married as before. A great sex life is created by being in love and a willingness to meet the other person's needs in bed. It doesn't happen by fairy magic. Compatibility is CREATED when couples learn to please each other sexually. One doesn't need experience to do that. They need a willingness to please the other sexually.

Just look at all the married couples here who are sexually incompatible and they DID have sex before marriage. Having sex before marriage does nothing to guarantee compability.

Here is what Harley says about sexual compatibility:


In other words, it is the quality of the relationship that ensures sexual compatibility, not one's performance in bed.

But, she didn't need to take her panties off to find out. The bigger problem here is that he was not HONEST with her. He could have just as easily been honest.

Having great sex before marriage is not a very reliable way to determine sexual compatibility. Most women know how to hook a guy into marriage using great sex. It takes no brains to be great in bed while dating and then shut your spouse down once married. Even the dumbest broad can do that.

A better determiner of a great sex life is a) romantic love and b) and a willingness to please your partner and use the POJA.

For me, any prospect that expected me to perform like an unpaid wh*re would be immediately ruled out as a prospect. Some girls don't put out for free!

Lamby
Well that makes at least two of us. I know of several other posters here who have talked about waiting until married again before sex. I will let them talk for themselves if they chose to.

Its not exactly a hot topic at the water cooler or construction jobsite to talk about how your not getting any with your new "Lady".


I just posted this on friday:




Using the Bible this is what I came up with:

Acts 15:20 (ESV)
20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

1 Corinthians 6:13 (ESV)
13 �Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food��and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 (ESV)
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

2 Corinthians 12:21 (ESV)
21 I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced.

Colossians 3:5 (ESV)
5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 (ESV)
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

Jude 7 (ESV)
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves

Hebrews 13:4 (ESV)
4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

It would be disrespct to Ruby, God, and myself at this point.

A man needs to equally respect himself, you, and his God to be even be dating material for you.

There are men out there who would and do respect in a way that brings honour to the M relationship. You will just have to look harder, farther and be clear with the boundary.

Ruby and I met on christian mingle. Sorry-but even there a lot guys are only out trolling for a good time. This is what Ruby told me from her experience. I wasn't a troller and actually repsonded in-depth to what she wrote on her cover page. Lead to e-mails-phone calls. Very slow progression. Should we get M'd sex would open a whole new chapter for us.

ETA-->Should a relationship develop to a point where M is considered I believe in the historical honesty questionaire sexual/physical problems are addressed. Could be a deciding factor before M.

nESRE

Same can be said for any other area of compatibility that we try to determine during dating - one can be more generous with money during dating then shut it down, or spend more time with you when dating then disappear into work, or pretend to love hiking when dating then become a couch potato - lots of ways to deceive a dating partner... So the "you can trick someone during dating" argument is not limited to sex. The whole point of dating is to determine compatibility, and if you are dealing with a professional deceiver, well that is why you need to date longer .


Not sure why having sex makes someone into an unpaid wh*re . I am not advocating jumping into the sack on the first date, I am talking about a monogamous dating relationship that has progressed to the point where both partners feel loved, cherished etc, Nothing whorish about that.

AGG

Like I said in my previous post, one doesn't need to perform to know that sex can be great if the 2 elements I described above are present. Compatibility is CREATED, after all, so it is not necessary to have sex before marriage.

Many women are NOT going to take their panties off for someone they are not married to. They wouldn't consider marrying someone who expected to get laid before marriage as a pre-condition. Asking me to put out before marriage as a test to see if I am good enough in bed DOES NOT make me feel cherished or loved.

It also completely misses the point that enjoyment in bed is something that is created together. One doesn't just come to the table knowing what the other will like. That has to be taught to each other. Couples LEARN to be good in bed based on what their partner enjoys.