- ok didnt realise that, i know its not proper UA time but right now its a start

Yes i have keylogger\spyware in place and traces on phone\car as well and all network access from the home is logged as well so everything is in place.

Just wish there were more things i could do for us to spend time together or as a family or to fufil her EN's but know we are at the start of a long path and so far my actions seem to have at least started to put confusion inside her mind and she is questioning her thoughts\feelings otherwsie she would have already left by now and also wouldnt say some of the things she would (i know she is in WW\Fog) but at least she says things like part of me does want the feelings\part of me doesnt etc

I know you are not fully recovered. But look where you were when you first came here. Your making head way. Marathon not a sprint.

Yeah i know and see that and still a long way to go, but have got from the "i am leaving now, nothing left, dont love you" etc etc to the "still here, will give it time, nto sure how i feel" so guess i have been doing something right for the last 3weeks

The notes. very clever.

As for the TV time, it isnt UA time, but there's lots you can do to meet ENs while watching the telly.

If she sits down to watch a favourite show at a favourite time, prepare her favourite snacks and pop a platter on the coffee table so you can both share nice food together.

Make her a cuppa in the ad break. Tell her you like to watch/hear her laugh after something funny has been on. Ask her if she wants a foot rub (offers, even those which are refused, are still EN meeting and still get logged in the female brain. Obviously this wont work as an affection need though if shes one of those people who dislike her feet being touched!)

Watch her expressions. If she appears to have a strong reaction to an issue on screen, wait until the break and say a little something about it as a hook to see if she begins a conversation.

thanks



I do offer and ask everytime i make a drink etc if she would like one, althought once over she would ask nearly every night for me to make one and now she always says no but i still keep asking. Not tried the foot rub one and not sure how she would take it and response but guess i wont know unless i ask (what EN's is it meeting if offers are refused?) she used to like me to rub her feet every now and then.

good idea on the conversation idea though and i did use that last night whilst watching the paraolympics saying things like "i wonder why they only wear one trainer" or "look how some of them get to stand up" etc sometimes i get a monosymbol answer, sometimes a little laugh etc tec

Dave.
I am very sorry for what you are going through.
But I want to warn you not to get so caught up in Plan A that you neglect your well being.

When I read your posts see desperation and examination of every detail.

AlAnon has a slogan to Let Go and Let God.
Do you have a relationship with God? Have you surrendered yourself to Him?
Will your world come to an end if your wife leaves?

I encourage you to consider joining a 12 Step Progam like AlAnon or Sex Addicts Anonymous. Also please consider going to a church on Sunday. That is a great way to have family time and meet other people.

Also, in all of this chaos you are in please remember your son. Make a commitment to spending UA time with him. As much as you do with your wife.

I am doing plan A to make ME a better person and a better husband, am taking care of myself as well and find ti good to be able to use the forum for help\support as well as just letting things out. As i on the start of this journey i guess at the moment i do examine things in detail and just want to get validation etc from folks on here.

sorry but lets not get into a reglion thing here.

Regarding our son i am spending a lot of UA time with him and doing things and going places every weekend just wish there was as much with my wife or us all together

Hmmmmm. I dont think the OP has mentioned any alcohol issues,

As for sex addiction - I cant remember the name of the article but Dr Harley counsels against classing a wayward as a sex addict unless they meet very strict crtieria. He counsels against people proceeding down that route and isntead says they should stick to MB. I think the word he uses is that often it isnt addiction at all but "simply a selfish and foolish choice".

In my humble opinion, Dave was wayward, not addicted and shouldn't proceed down the treatment for addiction route, but stick to the MB plan.

But I DO agree with this very much:



When I was at an AlAnon meeting once they used the 'Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference' quote.

I thought that was very impressive advice for life in general and certainly applies to Dave's situation.

The problem is that if Dr Harley dies of a heart attack tomorrow and the website gets shut down he is lost. He completely lack a moral compass.

He still wont say that swinging is immoral adultery. He just calls it a lifestyle.
He still hasn't apologized to his son and explained why te kids world is Falling apart. In fact he refuses to even consider beig honest with his son.

Plan A is not meant to be a "moral code" ;

And he just showed that he "doesn't want to get into religion" although religion is considered a part of healthy living. His son, who has two wayward parents, would certainly benefit from bein exposed to moral teachings.

His plan A acts of writing cute notes and pourin her coffee is not goin to win her back. This woman was coache by him to perform sex acts with strange couples and lower any moral boundaries she once had. She needs to be healed and notes won't do it

can we just stick the the task and plan a in hand rather than starting on a tangent folks, indie you have given me invaluable advice and direct. I like i said i mean come across as desperate and examing everything in detail at the moemnt but i would say this is beacuase in part i am right now and at the start of this path. So i come here and ask and report things to get validations so as time progresses i will recognize things more and have already got the answers from here

Hdw with respect to my admitting about swinging I have gone over this and admitting how bad etc it is and was earlier in the thread so there is no need to keep bringing it up

With regards our son I am actuall going to talk to him this weekend when I have some UA time with him

In terms of healing my wife etc, what suggestions can you make as indie as well have other have given me positive things and feedback on things I have done I thought in plan a was to eliminate all LB and fufulling as much EN as possible which is what I am doing but if you have more positive things I should or can be doing I am listening

Dr H isn't dying and if he did his teachings woulld survive. What are you rambling on about?

And as for pushing your religious beliefs onto this poster, I am aghast.

He is here for MB not to have his religion examined.

I am not religious at all either and never attend church. What does that have to do with having the ability to follow an MB plan?

Me neither.

I wonder if our OP was an ardent Buddhist or Celtic Pagan, would his moral background still be in question?

I jest. But yes, many of us here, while well-aware of the Christian background/foundations of MB, can still follow the program without subscribing to that particular set of beliefs.

Indie thanks for standing up and saying that I didn't think MB was a religious thing but i didn't want to say anything for fear of been flamed, I was feeling a little attacked and starting to question this forum if religious view/mandate were been pushed on me

I know this might sound stupid but can anyone tell me why my wife now refuses to iron my clothes and will only do her own and our sons or if I iron she tells me not to do hers only mine and our sons. Yet she will wash everything together, hang it out to dry together, fold it all ready for ironing etc even will take it upstairs n leave it on bed

It's just something that bemuses me as to to the thought process behind it, thus is the only thing she is like it with, cooking n cleaning are shared and fond got all

Dave, she has mentally checked out of the M. You know that by now. Doing your laundry, ironing your clothes, cooking for you etc. is not a priortity for her anymore. It might be later, but not now.

If I were you, I would be 'Mr. Mom' bigtime. Pick up the slack around the house. This is your time to show her you are the Man! Be the best provider, father and husband you can POSSIBLY be.

Show her what she is going to lose if she walks away. Doing this will reinforce how much she means to you.

This is no time to think about what she isn't doing. It is the right time to focus on what you are doing.

One of the hard lessons I learned was to not use microanalyses for each and every detail of every day. Who cares if she doesn't want you to do her laundry? Who cares if she doesn't want to do yours? You are a grown adult capable of handling your own business.


By only focusing on yourself, you take the pressure off of expectations. Expectations lead to disappointments.

You know the old saying �under promise and over deliver�? It is that same mentality that can help you at this stage. You have already shared your intentions now get to work being Superman.

She is wayward. All wayward spouses are aliens. You see the same body but inside you must realize an alien has possessed her body.

�Pay no attention, nothing to see here�! Just do what you do and move on with each day with total confidence and focus on yourself knowing you are ONLY in control of Dave

Neediness = a MASSIVE attraction killer. wipe it out completely.

Yes I know what your saying but what I was say is that she is doing everyting and sharing the duties between us apart from ironing, just seemed strange

What about your life isn't strange? Really..

brush it off like water off a ducks back!

Who cares???

Am certainly not been needy to her etc, just trying not to LB and to fufulling EN as much as possible, left a love heart sweet on the side in her room saying "first love" on it got some old wedding pictures out and put them on the side in my room (which she still has wardrobes n clothes in) so she will see them, evoke happy memories