AGG ... he stayed in withdrawal for four years ... how is that not dishonest?

What is a promise then AGG? Why can't we as posters have the expectation that when you marriage build you build that foundation on "the vow"?

Or are we going to have two categories here?

One ... I vow (but not to forsake all others?)
Two ... I vow (to forsake all others?)

When you marriage build ... are there really two options?

What on earth are you talking about? He said the following:


What about this is dishonest?? Do you think he is the first person to stay in a marriage instead of divorcing for the sake of the kids? Do you not realize that most fathers lose custody in a divorce? Are you blaming KL for wanting to stay close to his kids? Would he have been more "honest" in your book if he had filed for divorce the minute his W got involved with other men? What is dishonest here??


Divorce by definition is a breaking of the vows, are you saying that no one can ever remarry again?

AGG

**edit**

I'm sorry, but don't Lovebusters relate to ACTUAL RELATIONSHIPS? I don't see how they relate to basic moral precepts or why you keep dragging them into use for bashing KL.

Which, let us be clear, is EXACTLY what you are doing.

I agree with AG - it is coming off as not a little obssessive.

Let's get this thread back on track and stop badgering the OP! Keep your posts helpful and productive or kindly refrain from posting. There is no need to make the same post over and over again.

KL,

Now that hopefully you have your thread back. How are you doing? And what are you doing for yourself?

Hi BrainHurts, I'm doing just fine, thanks for asking, and thank you Fireproof for intervening. I'm actually smiling right now, I can't really say why, but somehow I find humor in all of this. I was in the middle of responding to one of GodGiveMeStrength's posts last night when all of a sudden my keyboard stopped working!! I couldn't do anything, just got a new one, and just finished getting caught up on the last couple pages of this thread. I missed all the action!

I often believe things happen for a reason, and I think my keyboard broke for a very good reason. If it hadn't, I probably would've been caught up in the thick of things. As it turned out, I was forced to the sidelines, and I'm sorry if anyone is offended that I find humor in the back-and-forth of a serious debate, but something about getting it all at once this morning tickled my funny bone.

I'm tempted to go back and re-read what was written by everyone and respond to some of it, but I think I'll let it go. Except for what I was originally going to say to GodGiveMeStrength because I think I left out an important piece of my story that might give her a different perspective, and others as well. The response I was in the middle of when my keyboard stopped working was based on this:

I never described mourning the loss of my marriage, and it's completely understandable that she, or anyone else, might conclude that I had skipped that phase of divorce recovery before entering into a new relationship, which would therefore make the new relationship tainted.

In an ideal setting, I would've mourned the loss of my marriage prior to starting a new relationship. I was flying blind, never having been through divorce before, and doing what I thought, at the time, was making the best of the situation. When my relationship with my then-GF started, I was uneasy about conflicting feelings. Imagine attending both a funeral and a wedding ceremony simultaneously. Healing from divorce while at the same time developing a new relationship felt a lot like that. Conflicting feelings of sadness and joy. It was very difficult, so many mixed-up emotions. I would never do it again, nor would I ever recommend it. Maybe that's the troublesome part, wondering how divorce recovery could possibly be accomplished in that setting. It was not easy, and certainly not the best way to heal, and I needed much help in counseling to slowly regain my sense of self.

Some people might not believe it's possible to heal while in a new relationship. I'm positive I couldn't have done it without the help of my counselor. Even so, I wouldn't try it again if, God forbid, I ever found myself in that situation again.

Anyways, it may have been my failure to communicate clearly how difficult it was to heal from divorce, while at the same time developing a new relationship, that raised some eyebrows.

GodGiveMeStrength, does that help? If not, I'll try to answer any questions you have that need answering. I'd even be willing to speak with you on the phone if that would help. Sometimes it's hard to communicate thoughts in writing when dealing with difficult issues. I wouldn't be opposed to talking on the phone if you think that would help.

The lesson to be learned here, for anyone who happens to read this, is this. When coming off the heels of a divorce, it's best to take time for yourself to recover. For some people, this is not a problem because their divorces cause them to think "never again," at least for a while. For others like me, there is a huge temptation to enter a new relationship because it fills a void that existed in the failed marriage. Trying to form a new relationship while tending to your own personal recovery is very stressful and makes both extremely difficult. You'll be a better, happier relationship partner if you heal first.

Put more succinctly and borrowing from the thread title, dating too soon is not a good idea.

I don't really have anything else to say here. Is there a way to officially end a thread, or disown it? If not, I'll keep checking back to see if anyone has anything to add to the topics that have come up or any new topics that anyone feels like adding.

In the meantime, I finished Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders a couple days ago and loved it. I'm going back to page 1 to re-read the book. It's that good!

Well thanks for the summary but everyone already told you that it's not a wise move to get a girlfriend while you are divorcing.

What are your plans for today, next week this month?

Self care is an important part of healing, and I do agree with GGMS that you shouldn't sit around and mope this relationship (though some withdrawal sadness is natural and will crop up from time to time)

Tell us what your plans are to make some sunshine.

You are a marathoner aren't you?
Go run a marathon.
And I don't say that as a joke. I'm also a runner and focus on that and get your mind off of this woman

Hi Indiegirl, I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm mourning the loss of the relationship with my ex-GF. We broke up roughly 4 weeks ago, and until I had a counseling session last week where we discussed the break-up, I was doing fine. I do experience sadness when I think about it, but I'm keeping busy, and I enjoy being free from the responsibility of a relationship. Still, I was surprised in counseling that I still carried the loss of my relationship; I thought I was over it more so than I actually was.

Besides reading, I took up piano lessons which I really enjoy, and I'm coaching 25 triathletes which I also really enjoy and takes up a lot of time; I love exercise and I love helping people, and coaching is a perfect hobby for me. Other than that, between job, home responsibilities, taking care of my dogs, and personal fitness, my days are pretty full.

The reading kick I'm on is discovering Dr. Harley's philosophy. I'm aware of some of the basics, but I want them to become second nature. BRF was extremely good, and I do want to read it again. I also have Effective Marriage Counseling on my list, as well as Lovebusters, prompted by GodGiveMeStrength. There may be other programs out there that work, but 99% of what Dr. Harley writes strikes a chord in me, and I want to learn it well. If I get in a future relationship, I hope I can convince my partner to get on board with MB, if she isn't already.

As far as relationships, I'm not into purposefully looking for dates. If someone comes along that I feel attracted to, I might take an interest, but I have no desire to be in a relationship right now. I'm happy being single.

Hi HDW, I actually just did sign up for a half-ironman next year. Even though it's a ways off, it gives me a sense of purpose, and you're right, it does help to get my mind off of her. Thanks!

Just become a "marathon" junkie for a while and put women on hold.
How many miles do you run weekly?
How often do you race?

Normally, I like to run 20-25 mpw and do 5-6 races per year. Lately though, I've been rehab'ing PF, so just returning to running after a couple months off.

How about you?

Once MB principles become "second nature" (e.g. lack of LB's, identifying your EN's, understanding UA, and POJA) you will not tolerate a relationship that isn't MB. It will either be that way naturally (by some magic), or you will find someone who is interested in learning and utilizing the concepts. Once you understand the principles, there is really no coherent argument against them.

The good news is that it's usually the male that is reluctant to get into stuff like this. So, bringing a woman on board is easier (that's per Dr. Harley, in so many words).

I introduced a few ideas to NG when we first started going out (love bank, honesty as an EN, POJA) and she took to it right away. I think it's because she has been so enthusiastic about it is why we have had a successful relationship.

She would have dumped me a long time ago if she kept hearing me say "can we POJA that?" or "how would you feel if...." or "that's a LB..." if she wasn't a believer in the philosophy.

Meanwhile, KL, I think you're on the right track to stay out of the pool for a while, read the books, get a clear understanding of the ideas and implement them into your existing relationships (e.g. eliminate LB's from your role as a father, coworker, driver, student, fellow-runner, etc). Recognize your "love" bank with others (also called an emotional bank account in non-intimate relationships).

And watch out for the accidentals.

opt

This is so true. I have become much more skilled at caring for the lovebanks of same-sex friends and relatives while in Plan B.

Only recently though really. After a year learning the principles.

One thing I found very hard and had success with for the first time only last month is when you are offended deeply on an emotional level and find it hard to respond calmly.

I wanted to demand the offence stop, and was highly tempted to make all sorts of DJs about the intelligence and thoughtlessness of the offender but I was able to phrase it as a respectful request and it all went very smoothly.

Now I can't believe I got so mad about it.