What difference does it make either way? From what I've already read about Dr. Harley, his procedures would be beneficial to ANY relationship. Meeting each others EN's, just restitution, radical honesty and the POJA would seem like a very good way to live.

This might be a good idea, IF I decide to give her a chance.

Well Q this is pretty much meaningless, as we've had a LOT of sex, already. No I haven't, yet.

Alis, I want to reinterate that except for the cheating issue, our relationship was SUPER!. She is, by far , the smartest , most caring woman I've known for a long time. Your car lot analogy isn't going to phase me much. LOL. My former BIL and best friend restores cars in the Auburn/Kendallville area, and I've done a few, myself. I've got a 1958 Pontiac that is immaculate.

Time to go. I've got lots to do until I meet her tonight, and I just came on to try to answer everybody I could. If I didn't answer you , I'll try to the next time I'm on MB. Thanks a lot, you guys are great!!!

Except for the cheating issue...

Well FB I HOPE the cheating issue has more weight for you than that statement suggests. You talk a lot about your gf and her 'swinging' and 'exploring' but at the end of the day, she wasn't swinging as she was only with one guy in a hotel room, she was just plain old cheatin on ya, no different than any other wayward on here.

Smartest? She cheated on what appears to be a pretty good guy that really adored her, and risked losing a relationship that appears to have been pretty good. Caring? She CHEATED on you. And is only scrambling to do damage control after getting caught. So, I am wondering exactly how you set this smart and caring SUPER bar.

Do what you want to do here, sounds a lot to me like you are planning to take her back. That's your choice, just as it is with every BS. Just make sure you can see the forest through the pretty, rich, sex filled trees.

FB

Since you are not married I will take referances from the preparing for marriage section of the site.

You may want to read these.

Chosing the right one to marry

Read all the articles on the side bar of the page.

One item Dr. H says over and over is living together/dating is not the same as the committment to M. Don't trust my words-trust Dr. H's.

In my case I have been in an exclusive relationship for about a year. We do not and will not live together before M because the D %'s are so high for people who live together before M. This is backed up by what Dr H writes.

By reading BRF's you would understand what Dr H is talking about. Posters are not giving you their personal opinion. Dr H backs it up with studys (not just his) for referance.

Using Dr H's logic as I understand it from his writings:

In one of the articles mentioned in the link he talks about having close to the same morals as a potential partner.

My question to you is the situation you find yourself in OK with your morals? Does this fit into your "exclusive" relationship and then finding her banging a guy in a motel room?

For me should I find Ruby banging a guy in this "exclusive" relationship would be extremely hurtful. Worse than that if I only found out by catching her would be worse. This definately would be failure of the test for M.

I don't know Bob. What would you tell your son (if you have one) or good friend if he brought this scenario to you and asked what you thought?

I am not going to call your GF any names but in the scenario presented above what would come to your mind concerning your son's or friends GF?

Be honest here.

What are your morals Bob? I know clear cut what mine are and should Ruby have sex with another man/woman or anyone during our "exclusive" relationship I would run as fast as these 53 year old legs could to drop her. The test for M would be over............and out.........DONE.

Read BRF's.

nESRE

Bob,

Just as a point of reference, my H and I had a super marriage except for the "cheating issue". The "cheating issue" has reeked havoc in our lives for the past five years and we only began to recover in the past two years. It is not a trivial issue.


AM

You know, except for that little sinking issue, the Titanic is a great ship!! Too bad it sunk to the bottom of the ocean!
exactly where your relationship is headed...

I would like to reiterate that Dr Harley's principles can be used for both good and evil. In a marriage, they can be used for good.

One could also use them to manipulate a girlfriend, or to prey on vulnerable married women to have affairs with. FB seems to want to persist in a fantasy he's in a marriage relationship.

Instead he's preying on what seems like a very vulnerable woman and trying to control her relationships. She has the right to sleep around if she wants when she's neither married nor engaged, and this poor woman also seems to have real boundary problems, like investing in a $50,000 property with a casual boyfriend, or moving into having sex quite quickly.

I think what's going on here is wrong.

Q, duly noted and filed. I will be polite and say that you don't seem to want to be of assistance, but simply want to condemn, so maybe there are other peoples stories where you can make a valuable contribution.

Nesre, this is probably the best advice, yet, but it's a little past time for it. I have to deal with what is, not what It should have been.

For those of you who seem to want to play sematics games, I'll re-phrase. Until I found out about the cheating issue, this was the BEST relationship I have ever been in, up to and including my marriage. I truly appreciate all of you who have tried to help, but don't appreciate the belittling comments of the last few posts. I am not a fool, I know very well that her cheating is a HUGE issue to overcome, perhaps too huge. I am a fair man, therefore I am giving her a fair hearing, nothing more, nothing less.

FB

There are 100 F-150 Ford pick ups on the car sales lot. 99 are in showroom condition. 1 is hail dented yet they are asking the same price. Would you consider it if the price remains the same? You possibly can paint it and repair it to look showroom perfect again. But why?

It is not past time. You are at best a renter in the situation you are in. You do not become a buyer until the M vows are made.

In my R with Ruby if I do not like the terms of our rental agreement either one of us is free to walk (or run) at any time. That is why M and dating/living together is not the same. The vows of protection/care until death do not apply.

Should you continue the R you are buying a hail dented F-150. Why would you do that when the other ones are showroom perfect and the same price? In my renters mentality I can not find any reasons to try and fix that which will not be showroom perfect from the start. Not that Ruby or I are showroom perfect-none of us are- but should she cross over into a real issue that went against my beliefs/morals I would not put forth the effort to try and repair the damage.

Is this just because you believe you have the ability? Knowledge? Fear of the future? Know matter how much you repair the F-150 you will always see the imperfections or know there was damage from the start.

nESRE

It was only the "best relationship" because she was fooling you though. You were being DELUDED.

I don't understand the point of giving her a "fair hearing" when you know the ship has sunk. I will reiterate a few statistics for you, my friend: 85% of marriages that began as shack up jobs end in divorce. Your situation has an added element of deceit, cheating and a history of swinging.

Another thing to consider is that this is a woman who screws her "friends." She calls them "friends with benefits." Sex, to her, is cheap and easy. That is a WORLDVIEW problem.

Instead of getting so defensive, why don't you take advantage of the objective view of those around you? You are allowing your feelings to cloud your judgement.

Then stop acting like one!

As you can see, some of the posters here know too well the pain of adultery. Adultery that is�not a cheating gf.

You are a free man capable of making your own decisions. As we are.

Some of us here have been married 10+ years with children and had our spouses commit adultery. You had your gf cheat on you. Fair enough. It sucks both ways.

However, what some here are trying to say is that sure, you can try to �fix� her and continue with your relationship. Your call 100%.

Try to embrace a reality where you take your current pain and multiply it by an indefinite number and MAYBE you could relate to a BS on this board. What some here are trying to help you see is that if you do get back together, try to project your life out�say�10-15 years. What..you will be 75?.. You are �in-love�, life seems to be going great then BOOM..you catch her in bed with another man.

Then what? Do you want to put yourself in the position at this point in your life to succeed or fail?

When you are young and you invest in the stock market maybe you can take a higher risk investment knowing it might level itself out over time. When you are 60�is it wise to invest in such high risk investments or go with bonds?

Sex is just sex my man. A woman in LOVE with her man is the best sex partner a person can have. Any woman has the ability to be �all that�. Believe me, I know.

Hey, your call. Your life.

I had a cheating g/f once. We were even engaged for a while.

I drove down to her house, asked for the ring back, and drove away. Haven't seen her since. Both of us moved on.

The pain of her cheating on me has no comparison to an affair within marriage, and the solutions are not the same either.

Last I heard, she ended up with one of the other guys and they have a kid now. Perhaps FarmerBob's girlfriend wants to be with that guy from Dallas. Stop trying to get in the way of her happiness. You two will never be happy together with this kind of baggage.

How about finding another BEST relationship with a woman who is not a cheater and liar and a swinger? Dr Harley recommends dating at least 30 people and choosing the person who does the best job of meeting your needs. You act like this is the ONLY woman out there you can be in love with. That is not true.

Find a woman who does a better job of meeting your needs, who is faithful and honest and decent. There are thousands out there.

By the way, Dr Harley mentioned on yesterdays radio show that if you hook up with a promiscuous person that you should just ASSUME you have an STD even if they have had no outbreaks. He said that he has had clients marry such people and they got an STD from the person even tho the person had no outward signs of an STD.

Have you been tested for STDs? Because I would wager you have picked up something nasty from her.

I think who you marry is up to you, and I don't think anyone is beyond redemption if they really want it.

However Bob, I think you know that whenever she was with you she was always faking. Fake smiles, fake agreements, fake everything.

Buying your love not only with money, but with everything she could fake to get you, too.

She's not a bad person. But she's not radically honest. She will think one thing in her head and say another forever to your face. You'll never know what she's capable of until you catch her at it.

I think she's done such a good job of putting fake coins in your lovebank, that you just don't want to let go of what you think is riches. No complaints, no real relationship work. Just sex and smiles.

To give her her due, I think she may have been swayed into waywardism by her H. I feel for the poor lady. But waywards are like addicts and not to be trusted. They're like drunks.

She's been wayward from that day to this. You don't even know what she's like sober, without the A drug in her system to give her that spring in her step. She will be totally different if she gets out of this lifestyle. A stranger.

And FB, you've been encouraged to like the fake act she puts on for you. The one she learned in the company of men who demanded a smiling barbie doll with no problems or down days.

Its commendable you want to be there for her now she IS having a down point, but she is incapable of being anything than a smiling doll around you.

Buying your affections with cash and never uttering a word of complaint. It would be a kindness to let her go so she can heal and find herself.

She can recover, but it will take years of self-work - and I fear she isn't capable of doing it with you, or in this relationship which has never had to stand alone, exclusively.