You can tell us what SH told you so we are aware of it.

I think Triple H meant the conversations/texts you have between you and your H.

I'd like to address HHhands point first..

Here is what I texted (on purpose) How would you have done it differently? I guess I am as blind as a bat...I am not getting it and if there is something to get I want to get it.


Below are my latest text request to DH and his replies:

ME: (have invited him to visit...told him about jobs in his career here in our new location- which is close to my family and our friends. He seemed surprised I was so nice and want him to visit. I also asked him to pack my winter clothes so I don't waste the families funds to rebuy what I have back home )


9/14 Me: would you like to join me for a time with SH at MB to discuss where we go from here next thurs at 9:30 or 12:30 ( His day off)
T: Don't know

Me: Didn't understand your answer

ME: How about we talking to Steve separately on Thurs? Girls really want to know how to plan 4 next semester. They ask a lot. Bc of HS sports commitments, club commitments, scheduling ACT and SAT test etc.


9/18 ME: Something is not right. I feel I will need to contact XXXX at ur work to find out if you still in relationship with XXXX. I am not getting any answers and I have to know how to proceed 4 the future.

DH: My gosh....Football...XXXXX played last night...Have not started packing...Looked at list last night...Have not spoken to her in 3 years.

ME: That is good to hear. So will u talk to SH to let him know where u r at so he can help me to plan for the next semester.

DH: The last text is crazy ...U know where I am at...At our home...What u have done is wrong....I'm not some puppet that u want to behave in a certain way....

ME: Can you tell that to Steve? I can't see anything except what I see and heard from u. I don't want to only give my perception and get guidance on that. The girls said they want to know where we will be next semester.

DH: I would like to know where girls will be ....I guess u are making all decisions.

ME: So would U like to meet with Steve to work on our decision?

DH: (no reply) until today !!!! Hope it gave him so hope to get unstuck.

Oh wait.... I opened a can of worms. Let's isolate what we are dealing with...this thread is already discombobulated enough...I don't want to make it more so...

Can we please just address my request to talk to Steve, in the light of Hands advice, and how I asked it...then we can move on.

And I purposefully sent this reply to my draft he read by my mistake..

I believe I saved that as a draft and chose to vent for my self and not send that email. I didn't remember that drafts show up on your side with gmail.

My choice would have been not to send that reply at all. It didn't accomplish anything except for me to be able to vent.

Huge withdraws is what you said, not deposits. I am not interested in fighting over a letter I did not intend to send but I would be interested in us talking to Steve.. something forward (even if a jerky forward movement) would be better than stuck where we are.

Actually, reading what he writes back to you...it looks like all crazy fogbabble!

You: Will you speak to me and the counselor about our marriage?
T: Don't know
You: I really need to know what our future looks like
T: Football blah blah blah
You: So can we discuss our marriage?
T: Your crazy and wrong blah blah blah stop making me think about our marriage
You: I really need to know what our future looks like
T: Me too, but I don't want to have anything to do with it so let me know what you decide
You: So will you discuss our future with me?
T: Fine already!! I'll do it so you can get off of my back and I can get back to being a horrible husband.

See how you keep engaging him? And he just keeps you going.

Have you tried POJA at all?

Here's a good clip when one spouse doesn't enthusiastically agree but reluctantly agrees.
Radio clip on Enthusiastically Agreeing vs Reluctantly Agreeing

If you have moved away to be in a (vague) Plan B, then why are you looking for jobs for him in your new area and asking him to visit (and why would he need a job there just to visit?)?

This whole wanting to recover but moving states away, going into Plan B but looking for a job for him there and asking him to 'visit' is totally confusing, IMO.

Exactly. Especially when she said that Steve Harley advised her to do this. It didn't make sense to me but I thought "who am I to argue with Steve?" Blueskies, I hope you ome back soon and let us know what SH sad.

RQ:

I love your very correct interpretation of the communication between dh and me. I was actually laughing it was so humorous.

Yes I love him and would love to get back to the guy I lost in the FOGGGGGG.

Yes I will need to nag (I mean complain- and MB believes in nice complaining...I wasn't judgmental, at least not in my on purpose communication)

him to do SOMETHING even if it means divorce. I think I did a good job of putting that ball back in HIS court and NOT letting him FORGET that he is in the game of being married. That was my assignment, along with following through to leave the state if something did not change... and I did them both! I hope dh was encouraged to get back in the game after talking to SH. dh is the type who will let me do it all and blame me at the same time even though he gave me no alternatives but to do something on my own. And I did do something...I took the kids and left the state ...leaving him with huge embarrassment in having to explain where I disappeared to. You have no idea...I volunteered for about 6 jobs, was the president of one... I left a huge hole when I left that shocked everyone and he gets to handle all the phone calls. Right now he is just mad in his rage all he can say is "fogbabble". Love that word.

It's actually a pretty standard piece of advice in a post-infidelity situation.


Dr. Harley has advised several betrayed spouses to hit recovery by moving several states away and then invite the WS to join them for recovery. This is especially good advice in this situation because her husband's affair occured in the work place.

Because he will have to move to be with his wife and recover the marriage, it will provide barriers to possible contact in the future; not living in the same state/city, and he will have to find a new job.

Blue is in a fantastic position as the conditions for recovery are built right in to recovery starting at all.

I'm not referring to telling the board about what you have been counciled to do, I refer to telling your husband what he should talk to SH about.


Strangely enough, I see the exchange and have to ask;

Was bringing up the affair and asking if it has resumebed part of the advice you received? What response were you expecting?

Finally someone understands!!!! I don't know how you finally got it...this whole thread is so confusing ...you are brilliant.

As for my "are you back in an affair question" to dh....it was a lapse in judgement....a wake up in the middle of the night gasp for air...questioning if I had left only to set him up to be with the FOW. Wondering if I was following bad advice.

Yes HHH I am in a terrific position. Yes it went really well yesterday. He is back in the game...don't know how SH did it but it was magical.

Remember everyone I am not in a plan b to get my dh out of an affair...I am in the other kind of plan b...I will paste the exact portion...cuz the link didn't seem to do the job of explaining http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit.html

"But if your husband refuses to accept your offer, the next step I recommend is very controversial, but when you compare it to the alternatives, it makes the most sense. It has two parts. I call one part plan A, and the other plan B. These two parts are to be executed sequentially -- plan A is first, followed by plan B......I know that this sounds like a drastic measure, but it's amazing how quickly time passes. Before you know it, you'll have been married not 20 years, but 40 years, and you'll be facing the same problems....After a month had passed, when Ken returned home from work, there was a note on the kitchen table from Ellen. She explained that she loved him, and wanted their marriage to be successful. But because the relationship was one -- sided, with she doing all the giving, and he doing all the taking, she decided that it was time to do something about it. If he wanted to talk with her, she could be reached on her cell phone.

I had explained to Ellen how her husband would probably react at first: He would throw a fit. And that's precisely what happened. He told her that he was filing for divorce, and that she was now on her own. I also predicted what might happen next: After he had a chance to cool off, he'd want to have sex with her. That also happened right on schedule after two weeks had passed. My advice to her was that she should agree to it only after he saw a counselor with her that would take them through "His Needs, Her Needs." Since her husband hated me after he learned that I was the architect of this plan, I suggested that she find a local counselor who was familiar with my books and methods, which she did.

Sometimes, especially when an unfaithful spouse refuses to end an affair, I recommend no contact at all for plan B. If he wants to contact her, he must talk through a designated mediator. But in this case, I didn't feel that a mediator was necessary and that Ellen could talk with Ken by cell phone. He didn't know her address, however.

Plan B ended with the first counseling session. Ellen gave Ken her address and they planned to meet regularly to complete the lessons.

Ken wanted Ellen to move back to their home immediately, but I recommended that she wait until they were meeting each other's intimate emotional needs almost effortlessly. It turned out that they were separated for about a year because while Ken wanted Ellen with him, he resisted learning the new habits that would meet her emotional needs. He agreed to do everything that was recommended while in the counseling office, but then didn't always follow through on the assignments.

But Ellen was in no hurry to return home. She made it clear to Ken that until their new habits were in place she'd remain separated from him. Fifteen hours a week of undivided attention, using the time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment, was the goal. And they had to practice it until it became almost effortless for both of them. Then, she'd return home.

Toward the end of their program, they would spend the night with each other on a fairly regular basis. He'd be with her, or she'd be with him. So the transition back to living together was almost seamless, and they continue to have a romantic relationship to this day.

But what can be done if your husband does not respond the way Ken responded to Ellen? What if he refuses counseling? What if he makes no effort to draw you back into a relationship with him? What if he threatens to have an affair, or divorce you?

There's the possibility that your husband will not want you to return. He may be happy that you've left. Separation is always a dangerous step to take because it often leads to an affair or divorce. But what are the alternatives?

Some people wait and hope for a change of heart. But as I mentioned earlier, time can go by very quickly. Before you know it, 20 more years will have passed without any improvement.

It's sad to consider how many people put up with a loveless marriage and simply live independently. In fact, about 20% of all married couples die having been separated for many years. And while another 20% continue to live together, they don't have much of a relationship -- it's like your marriage. Only about 20% have a romantic relationship throughout marriage-they meet each other's intimate emotional needs.

If you want to be among the 20% that are happily married, you may need to do something drastic-like follow my plan. Or you will become one of the 20% that live together unfulfilled (like you are now), the 20% that stay married, but eventually separate for the rest of their lives together (like you may end up), or the remaining 40% who throw in the towel and divorce.

I strongly encourage you to be among the 20% with a very fulfilling marriage. While your husband may not like my plan at first, especially if you separate from him, if it succeeds, he will be a much happier man. He will come to recognize, as you do, that a great marriage requires a mutual effort. Both spouses must take their marital responsibilities seriously by meeting each other's intimate emotional needs.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

So I hope it is all getting clear now....me having to answer to all of you guys/gals has helped me to get clearer ...for sure..

It seemed like to those on the board that I was not in recovery...like I shouldn't have posted here...however there is no section for "the other kind of plan B" even if there were...those who are not BS would never relate to my needing to do "the other plan B in 2012" after successfully doing the "get your husband out of an affair plan b in 2008".

Now things are set up to continue recovery. It is not guaranteed of course we or anyone will recover...however we are back in recovery mode.

Your comments have helped me to see what went wrong. To get my husband back after his affair was incredibly hard..most folks can't fathom we made it through...but when I did get him back and he decided to recover he did it really really well...like a switch flipped on one day and wow- zamy- better- than- i- ever- dreamed-turn-around.Problem with that was we never really learned POJA- wasn't anything to argue about or disagree over, we never carefully documented UA..we just did a ton of it...then it started wearing off on his side...why? because part of his amazing recovery was through porn addiction help..they gave him assignments and his feeling followed his new positive actions...after some time he felt he was okay, cured, and slowly slipped back; not into the addictions but into the old pathways of thinking and treating people.

So basically we need to start over and learn UA-keep track of it,learn POJA, and take care of love busters...and quite possibly we will need to move permanently away from NM. It is ideal...but to tell the truth I am super home sick for NM. Lots to work ahead...again.

*the preceding was an artistic reenactment*

He should have stopped at the words... last night. But, he did well. He deflated the situation a bit, and addressed it shortly.

I could be reading wrong, Blue... it just seemed like you responded in a way that put SH between the two of you. It just kinda struck me weird.

Coupled with the fact that you outright brought up the affair, his AP's name, and nearly outright accused him of restarting the affair, the whole conversation didn't seem like any type of invitation home.

I would ask you to consider that, and take another look at his response. A few posters said that HE sounded foggy, but it sounded to ME like he reverse-babbled you. In fact, it sounds DIRECTLY like reverse babble - - - which is a BRILLIANT way for him to keep things on track should you ever get angry, slip, and bring up the affair again.

Look at it again;


*lol - using two windows; one to read, one to reply - this goes w/ the previous post*

Wow that was a roller coaster ride. First you had me LOL then such a sober word. Yes I think maybe you might have something...there. Perhaps dh is deeper at times than I give him credit for.

Not sure if this was clear but the packing list and "not started packing" was for him to send us our winter clothes.

Still pondering what you said....but he really does LOVE football...he played in college or should I say the good players played him in practice...what do you call those type of non actual game players?

Well, if he were a fighter, you would call him a sparring partner.

Practice squad?

I dunno.

My point kind of got shuffled.

In short; a little less forceful with getting him to talk to SH. Drop the hint, let it roll around a bit. Ever heard the saying "The best idea is HIS idea?" Plant seeds, and give him some time to act. Gentle nudges here and there. If he refuses to act, it's HIS butt on the curb. Make sense?


Second; his response to your bringing up the A was good. Bringing up the A is NEVER going to lead to a good place from here out. Do you have full transparency? Access to phone, email, etc? Those are your sources. At this point I would say confrontation or accusation should be backed by evidence, not feelings. Feelings are all over the place during recovery. If you get a feeling, don't accuse or bring it up, quietly check your intel.

Again, you've been expertly coached and... ACTUALLY TOOK THE ADVICE!.. now the ball is in your WH's court to move to you. You can hardly be better positioned.

Triple H:
yes I see your points...

But back to your original question about my bringing up the A "what response were you expecting?" Like I said early it was a lapse of judgement, a panic attack on my part...however

Last night he called and we discussed that topic a bit. I approached it from an indirect angle (not trying to be sneaky- just came up that way)

Told him I had been to the board and read Sunny's thread over a 9 hr period, along with touching in on a few others...a recurring theme I noticed is trust, wandering about dangers of OW, triggers, "does WS really know how bad he/she hurt me?", and the BS feeling like they are pulling most of the load.

He asked, "How far into recovery are you talking?" I replied, " By two years they are usually in a much better place if the FWS is doing their job."

I then mentioned that I posted and lots of folks were all over the fact that you still work at the same place as the FOW. I told him that I argue 90% convinced that it is not our problem but that at low moments like this week it will always be in the back of my head as long as we are in NM." I added that I actually like living in NM.

He said he understood.

But perhaps it was a good thing it was brought up...maybe it does need to be addressed. Initially when I left the state to do plan b, I was planning to return to NM when the time was right. Now I am not so sure...maybe leaving beautiful NM would help us both....sigh....I am homesick.

Okay so how long do I let him take before it becomes "His idea"
His butt is in our home and I am on the curb in another state.
This is taking too long. When do I get out of limbo land?

Yesterday my old boss called and has moved back to NM and wants me to work for her. She knows I am spending a semester out of state nearer to family. I told her I woudln't know until Nov 1st..I also told my dd's that today on the way to school. In addition I texted dh about the job offer and the deadline I set of Nov 1. He said "K"

I hate letting him waste my life away. I rather he just D me so I can move on. But he likes the ball to be in my court...whatever I choose if it ends badly it when then be my fault.