Yes it does and thanks for helping me and giving me food for thought as well, our son is 11 and just started big school so getting used to homework as well which I am helping as much as I can with but defo given me some ideas

You just keep in Plan A -- be the best dad you can to that little man. Believe me, I know as an educator, even at 11 he is watching -- and learning from you -- what kind of man & father he is going to be..

And, in spite of the hurt, pain, and her bouts of fogginess, you be a hero to your W -- and she WILL realize that, I hope sooner rather than later.

They remember who stood up for them when the dust settles.

I will be the man and her beacon, take it you mean who stood up for them in terms if our son?

one big issue I do have is how much she uses him as both a support n shield and tries to mother him way too much like he is still 6 or 7

What happened post exposue to him?

How did that go? Haven't really heard much about the direction things took between mother and son, now he knows.

HfD is right, fog generally lessens after exposure - but its almost as if your W doesn't know about the exposure to your son?

Listen to HFD, Dave, as regards focusing on the main issue before you. I hit folks on here every so often with the phrase-that-pays (off) :

Eyes Always On The Prize

And for a REAL treat, put some lettuce and sliced tomato on the cholesterol-bomb that IG recommended. The BLT is nothing if not true comfort-food!

She knows indie and was pissed that was part of the argument the other weekend, she told him no matter what mummy loves him the same and nothing is his fault etc. he has been pretty strong he did cry etc but once calmed down he seemed ok, have said to him if there is anything he wants to know or ask or talk about I am here for him

NG I am and hfd has helped me as well as ig tonight like I said early it was wanting to know the signs etc but they won't stop plan just might give it another power pill

Self care is important too. If you need a break take it.

Thanks, Dave but if you REALLY want to do this right -- follow NG's posts (among other vets, of course!)

I listen to what everyone says and am trying to plan A the best i can and like the feedback i get on things i have done along with any suggestions as to what i can do. Also getting the input on what are signs vs whats just fog bable helps me learning as well.

Yes i do yearn for the day when my wife does see my beacon and decides she wants to swim towards it and reach for my hand and step towards conflict and recovery (who doesnt) but plan A is my beacon to her and i will try and make it as bright as i can.

I guess using this analogy based on my past history of not keeping up my changes\promises to her she feels like she can see the beacon but thinks its just a torch i am shining and if she comes to it i will turn it off or let the batteries go out again. I can fully understand her thinking of that as well and only time will let her see that its not a torch but a real light i am shining to her. At the moment she keeps looking back at the becaons in history and seeing how they went out when she went to them, but now i have to get her to try and forgot and stop looking at them and see the beacon of today and believe in it and that we can build a beacon together in the futurue that burns brighter than the sun

Well i had my solo councilling session today and went really well, basically went over all the LB and EN things and what i am doing etc in plan A.

We also covered some things reagrding the A as well of my WW state of mind and i brought the counciller upto speed about WW's past depression.

Basically the counciller said my WW needs to feel safe and that when we have gone out for meels etc on her initiation that is because she feels safe outside where as not so much at home. The counciller was fully on board with what i am doing and the support i am getting from here and she said its a great thing and to keep posting and listening etc. She did say right now my WW isnt in a state to really be reading things on here etc but counciller is seeing her tomorrow and going to start to talk to her about getting to see how my past changes n broken promises etc are different from the changes now.

Also the counciller has said to me to read the 5 Love Languages which i believe is very similar to the LB\EN concepts as well. She said this would be a good starting book and will be tell my wife to also read it tomorrow. So this could be a big step for my wife if she reads it to start actually understanding things and talking about marriage\love etc and moving forward with it.

All in all i came out of the session feeling really good about everything and that she is supporting what i am doing and gently as my wife starts to focus on the marriage more will introduce her to the MB concepts. Whilst it might sound a little sneaky the big thing the counciller is doing with WW is not to actually talk about saving the marriage but gentle steer into it without and guiding her into saving it.

So big thanks to everyone on here for all yrou support and helping thus far, and i will keep up my strong plan A as well

...not to actually talk about saving the marriage but gentle steer into it without and guiding her into saving it.

On this side of the pond anyway, when a counselor does this it's called therapy and costs you $200 per hour. When we recommend you do it, we call it "Plan A" and our help is free!

Lol I hear you NG it's therapy/councilling here as well and cost a lot less. Whilst I know what you guys do is free and it's amazing right now she would never come hear or listen so the counciller is a person she does trust n listen to n follow, I have to tow that line with her whilst having this forum as well. If I backed out of the councilling it would be the end, so I show willing and the councilling supports what Ian doing with MB n the forum.

I did say to the counciller that I feel my wife needs a lot more solo sessions than me which she agreed with dud to fact that I have the support from this forum n people where as the wife has little objective support and only friend who will just say what she wants to hear, again the counciller agreed with this.

Has anyone read 5 Love Languages and can tell me how it compares to SAA/LB/HNHN ? like i said the counciller is suggesting this to my WW today to read and feels it will be a gentle introduction for her into reconizing some things and a sneaky way to get her to focus on saving marriage and reconcile\rebuilding it rather than thinking and focusing on other options.

My bride and I used that book in our recovery (found MB much later).

It is neither as comprehensive, nor as directive, as Dr H's works, but it does have its value, especially if one discovers, as I/we did, that the supplied/desired activities have not been in alignment.

Thats the angle i think the counciller is taking in more of a gentle approach to start rather than the fullblown MB books. Until my WW is fully onboard with recovery this would be a way of starting to get her in the mindset or recovery and starting to see things a little different i hope.

Well i got a txt from the counciller this morning regarding my wifes session yesterday as she had said she would let me know if she had mentioned to her about getting the "5 Love Languages" book. What i receieved was the following.

"Sorry we got times out last night, did not recommend the book yet as she is not ready yet for it."

I sent her a reply just saying "shoudl i get it or is there no point?, is thjere anything i should be doing or not?, do you thing she wants to be ready at some point? i am scared n frightened"

She sent me a reply back saying "i still think it would be good for u to read and it will fit with where i think we may be going. i no it is a frightening time. but time is a big part of the process. we have lots to explore in our next session.

So what do people think? i know its hard to comment given you dont know the counciller etc, but my feeling is that its positive as she said it will fit where we may be going and that she is gentle guiding my wife back towards recovery and marriage\relationship with me. I know time is a big healer and getting my wife to believe in my changes that they are real and permanant and that the becon i am shining is permamant one not a torch like the past which goes out.

Not really sure Dave, as I dont know the book and how well it fits with MB.

Going by what NG said though, it's compatible as a forerunner to the nitty gritty of a ful MB plan and it wouldn't hurt for you to take a look.

I'm not surprised she said not to give it to your wife. At this stage I'm sure she is not in the mood to be educated. Her feelings have to catch up first.

All things considered, your counsellor sounds alright, not like the usual muppets we hear about on here. She has given advice in line with MB and doesn't give anti-MB advice like most of them.

If you ever start to doubt her though or begin getting conflicting advice, there's a thread on here about finding the right marriage counsellor.

I know it must be frustrating that you can't just hand your wife a book, have her read it and then the light bulb will come on for her!

But she is ruled by very powerful feelings right now.

Indie from what i have read it compares well to HNHN but just categorises the needs into "love lanaguges" which are "Words of Affirmation", "Quality Time", "Receiving Gifts", "Acts of Service" and "Physical Touch". Its written on the basis that each person has 1 or more primary\secondary love language and thats what we accept has feeling love and also the way we show love. The problem is that most couples have different languages and without recognizing yoru spouses its like talking english and chinese. As i say from what i have read and others have posted its a gentler way of HNHN and not not has hard hitting, althought each chapter in the book does have assignments\questionarie etc to do as well. Like i said this is a gentler way the counciller is going to get my wife into the recovery and get her actually starting to think that we can recovery and rebuild.

Yes this is what the counciller has been saying that my wife right now needs to feel safe and understand why the beacons of the past i had made and then went out are different from my current beacon that is forever to shine bright. Also she is getting her to see that things arent as bad as my wife currently thinks\feels and it can get better etc (also the fact i have told the counciller about my wife past depression will help as well)

Thanks for that she does seem really good and very pro marriage etc and on board with the MB things i am doing as well as supporting me.

I certainly would and also post on here as well.

You hit the nail on the head indie as usual but hopefully she will get to read the book and start to be able to see a glimer of hope that things really can and are changing. In the mean time i keep full on with plan A and having all you great people supporting me (which the counciller said was a great thing getting objective advice). I still have my highs and lows but my lows are starting to be less now with each day, i have no expectations and i just keep plugging away.

The Love Languages book is okay. The Love Languages are primarily ways of different ways different people get their Emotional Need for Affection met.

His Needs, Her Needs is much better, but the Love Languages books are much more widely known. You would do best to educate yourself about both.