I had read that love languages covers more than affection and based on what someone's language is you start to get an idea of their top needs. I realise that it's not as extensive of HNHN but like I said this is a gentle introduction by the counciller as well to my wife who currently isn't in the mindset of recovery. Once we get to recovery then I will introduce the LB and HNHN books but not until them otherwise it would go against the councillers plans as well as put pressure on my wife and making selfish demands etc as well

On the subject of my wife (what else would it be) she seems a little calmer and relaxed after her session yesterday so hope it did some good (don't you wish you could just fast forward time)

She's a little more chatty n civil towards me and so many mono sylabal replies towards me, even slightly more normal dare I say. I feel pretty calm in myself and trying to come up with more ways to show affection n admiration apart from messages/notes/txt etc

all suggestions welcome

dotnetdave,

The Love Languages are:

Gifts or gift giving (typically affection)
Quality time (UA, basically--often conversation)
Physical/touch (affection)
Affirmation or compliment (affection)
Service (financial support, domestic support, family commitment, affection)

As these are typically women's top ENs, the Love Languages approach often works well for meeting a wife's ENs.

I agree it would be a good introduction your counsellor can make to your wife about how she can experience getting her ENs/LLs met by you.

Keep sending those notes, finding sentimental gifts, getting flowers, picking up a coffee for her, and complimenting her (especially look for compliments that AREN'T about her physical appearance).

All sounds good to me then on the book front and hopefully soon my wife will be ready to read it as we'll

Regarding the affection/admiration I just want to back off the messages/txt for a while n find different ways (surprise flowers to work are next week) going to look for little gifts etc and I make lots of compliments on things she does Lind baking etc the more conversation she will have the more it opens her world to me and the more I can use the information to compliment as well

Yep. You need to be a bit of a detective and figure out what she needs.

Do you know what her top ENs are? Do you know what kind of affection she likes the most? Some women really need notes on a daily basis; others could care less.

She just likes conversation and been made to felt like she is special and wanted and happy, she likes compliments and admiration and SF (but give the current no touching rule that's out like hugs n kisses etc) so am doing as much as I can on the 4 intimate needs along with domestic n family which are high on her list as well.

At the moment she feels its all fake etc because she says I haven't shown and done it for so long, but that means she is at least seeing n feeling it and with time will start to trust n believe it as well I hope

Plan A all the way with no expectations, although a hug would be worth life sometimes

Well hoepfuly the book "5 love language" should turn up soon and i also got one called "desperate marriages" by the same author as it was on a combined deal on amazon the second one seems appropriate as well as it is devided into chapters that recognize common problems that seem cannot be overcom come like "workaholic spoun", "control spouse", "abusive spouse" etc etc. The premise of the book is that whilst all these things seem like huge problem that cannot be solved and the D is the answer then can be dealt with and overcome and that D is not the answer as it brings a whole host of problems and doesnt fix any of the previous problem.

If anyone is interested in either of these books i dont mind giving my opion's on them after i get through them

Well i have done my first reading of "5 Love Languages" and it scarily similar to some the MB principles. Basically as previoulsy mentioned it groups the EN's into love languages. I found whilst reading it i was recognizing the EN's along the way and intend on the second reading to start highlighting and making notes as well. I woudl certainly think this is a lighter more gentle read than HNHN and LB's and would be agreat intro into the concepts on EN and LB. I even found whilst reading it the same idea of Plan A in a chapter towards the end.

The great thing i also found is that for each language it talks about how there are dialects in the language as well and give suggestions on how to "speak" the language. Another great thing i found was that it gives you various ways to recognize yrou own language if you are unsure as well as yrou spouses when you are in the state of them not telling you.

All in all i think when the counciller suggests my WW read this is will be a great book for her and that there are real stories in it that are exactly like our situation as well that will give her hope that thinks can change.

The next book to read is "Desperate Marriages" again by the same author and talks more about something called "reality living" as well a specififc chapters on spousal issues like controller, workaholic, abusive etc etc.

DND,


It is not typically recommended to read 8 billion different marriage books, even if they do seem "similar" to MB principals.

MB works when it is applied, and historically when people have tried applying it along with other programs, it doesn't end well.

Think about it; do these books have free forums, and free access to the author?

There is a particularly successful marriage expert more local to my area, one who does active research on marriage... but he doesn't have ANY free material, a FREE radio broadcast, does not have FREE access by e-mail (which can reward you with FREE book), nor an active community which will help you learn the concepts of THAT program in particular, also FREE. A community that has that same FREE access to the program founder, who will often times use that access to help OTHER posters and not just themselves.

Are you sold yet?


You don't need 80 books, dude. Usually ONE MB book will do the job. In your case, likely SAA. OK?

In fact, you can do a great deal with just the articles available (FREE!) here on the site!

Concentrate on the MB program, not 80 different books.



As far as your wife reading; SAA would probably be more down her alley than you might think.

I really cut my teeth with the website articles here, and then the forum, then my FWW and I read SAA.

After doing the forum thing, SAA kind of made my FWW squirm... but for a different reason than you might think; she thought that SAA was really gentle on "Sue," the wayward wife from the main running example. Compared to forum, it was. Not saying Dr. Harley minces words, but he is direct without being judgemental.

The least you could do is to buy SAA and make sure to leave it lying out for her to see while you read it.

I would also voice caution when it comes to mixing up different marriage plans.

Dr H says that if even one step of his plan is missed, even if in just a tiny way, the outcome is disastrous.

Its a very NARROW path to recovery.

We have certainly seen that come to pass on these boards. Even the litlest shortcuts seem to bite people on the backside. The 'I told you so' thread covers it.

But I think if Dave is still carefully following the MB recipe and is just using this as an appetiser, that would be OK.

However I think HHH has a point and she may be more up for MB than at first thought.

She wants a safe marriage. She wants to believe in firm foundations that feel fake right now.

Dave, if you tell her youre an MBer and will strictly follow those rules, she will probably respond in a slightly aloof way as to HER commitment..

...But I would bet it would strengthen her belief in YOURS and your credibility.

You could have chosen a nice, fluffy, easy-on-you plan but instead you went for the deal that will benefit the marriage most. Women like that.

indie i am following the MB plan and the book which the counciller recommened does fit in that plan and like has been said this would be a gentle introduction for my WW rather than throwing her in at the deep end. If this book gets her on board with the concept of recovery and that changes etc are possible then its a good thing and once that happened then HNHN and LB can be brought into the picture.

your right in that she wants a safe marriage with firm foundations ultimately but right not thats not her mindset so the counciller is trying to coax her into that mindset and this book could be a good thing for it.

Once she starts to change her mindset and get more on board with the idea of recovery and that things can change and stay changed and get better and better then i feel is the time to bring MB more into her view. Right now though her view is of the past hurts with only small glances to the present.

The premises of both books i have, works on you can on control the present and work to the future etc and the past is the past, learn and understand some of it but work on the here n now. At the moment she is spending a lot of time looking at the past broken promises and glancing at the current with no belief in it, once she start to look at the present and believe in it and only glance back at the past i think we will have the beggings of a recovery.

hhh thanks for yoru input and i am fully on board with MB these were books the counciller recommend as a gentlier introduction mainly for WW once she starts to look at recovery and reconcilliation then i can start to talk and show her MB, right now that would be a LB as come across as me trying to educate her

Well not bee a bad day today, WW did a 5k charity walk\run for cancer this morning, i went to watch and support her as well :

When she got back home told her how proud i was of her and reaffirmed this later in the afternoon by txt while she was out with our son.

Have just bought some of her favourite chocolates and left them on her blow up bed with a hand written not saying "from me to you, well done for today xx"

simple showing affection and admiration, plus small conversations today so 3 EN needs meet, hung washing out and offered to help\assist with dinner (but got told wasnt needed) so guess sort of some domestic EN as well done.

All in all feeling positive with things and with the books as well showing me hope and solutions for the future, along with the forum on here and articles i feel really good

Homework;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5056_qa.html

hhh thanks for the link i have read that and will read again, biggest issue at the moment is that she really doesnt get into conversation ir want to maintain one for any lenght of time. I do try and make comments about allsorts of things, tv, weather, movie, her appearance, baking etc anything that feels relevant and may engage her. sometimes its good sometimes not, but i keep plugging away will have another read of the articile though

One thing to do here is key in on using conversation to investigate.


Through my experience, I would say you might notice a break if your W starts talking to you about her past... even if you know the stories by heart. Listen and relate, relay some of your history.

I really went out on a limb w/ my W and told her about traumatic events from my past that I had never previously told her about, as well as some potentially embarrassing things she hadn't known about.

It's risky, but that is what intimate conversation is about; being an open book.

Sounds good but at the moment she won't even talk about the weather so how do I get her to even start talking about the past and personal stuff? She has little interest in talking at least to me but I still keep trying.

Strange thing tonight she seems a little more relaxed almost like she is starting to see/feel/realise that I am not changing what I am doing maybe its giving confusion also whilst I don't read the books infront of her the counciller said not to keep them hidden, so on bedside table and no doubt she will have noticed them.

not sure if anyone is around this early on a sunday but am taking our son over to a scooter park later today and wanted to ask WW if she would like to come and go shopping for the afternoon while he is there. I wanted to ask it in a non LB way but also in a win/win way to try and get some UA time with her. Sort of thing i was thinking was along the lines of this

Me: Would you like to come with us and we can go shopping while he is that the scooter park

Her: No

Me: Oh ok, did you have anything planned to do today then?

Her: I was\am going to do X

Me: Ok then i can come\help you with that and we can go shopping another time

Would that be a fair conversation in a non LB way and also in a win/win way to try and start getting some UA time with her?

Yes it would be fair.

As for intimate conversation, remember that a non-pressure offer to meet the need is almost the same as meeting it! She can refuse to take up your offer but there's nothing she can do about stopping you from offering

Offering:

"How was your day?"

"Do you feel happy?"

"What was your favourite thing to do as a little girl?"

"If you won the lottery, what would you want to do first?"

I think offering a woman IC every day while behaving close and concerned about all the thoughts in her head is like a woman offering a man SF every day! Eventually temptation is going to bite.

One day when you say 'how was your day', she is really going to need to talk about her day. We all need that.

Thanks for the tips on IC indie will figure out how to drop them in to conversation with her, I do always ask if she had a good day etc after work and normally get a "yes thanks" and nothing else maybe I should probe more find out what she has done, favourite moments of the day etc (she is a teaching assistant) generally show more interest into her work