Was that you on Dr Harley's show today talking about this issue? And completely omitting the fact that she had an affair and was just recently in contact with the OM?

we've never had telephone coaching. In fact, I've never communicated with the Harley's other than by an email I sent to the radio show.

No, I wasn't on the show today.

What are you going to do about NC?

Well she just finished reading SAA this week. We're doing the online program. She's given me all her passwords and she's been rather honest about her feelings on everything, brutally honest actually. We have a block on her cell phone, we changed our home number, I monitor her emails and texts frequently. We're scheduling about 12-15 hours of UA a week - we get plenty of time together, but it's virtually impossible to get more than 15 with our twins always on opposite schedules from each other. We're trying to live by the POJA in every decision and she recently started reading a book.

I'm just frustrated mostly because things are going well in virtually every category minus SF and Aff. I feel held hostage by her feelings. I feel she's held hostage by her feelings. She won't DO anything with physical touch unless she 'feels' it. Otherwise it's not genuine. If her feelings aren't there she won't be affectionate or RECEIVE affection and I feel like I'm lovebusting if a try to be affectionate, so I just back off. Don't get me wrong affection DOES happen, sometimes, but it's always awkward and forced because their are no 'feelings' behind it. We talk well, we communicate well, we're beginning to negotiate better. But she won't even talk about SF. She thinks it's 'carnal' and "superficial" for me to even discuss the conflict. She admits this is easily are biggest conflict in marriage. We have a few others, but are minor compared to this one. SF, or the lack thereof, is the elephant in the room almost always. She's fine meeting other needs, namely RC - her biggest need, O&H her #3, and Domestic Support my #6 need, but she's not 'comfortable' with Aff or SF. She stated to me the other day that she's depressed a lot because she has no reason NOT to be in love with me, but she's simply not. She cares about me, but doesn't have 'those' feelings for me. We work really well together in raising our kids, FC is off the charts. But there's just that last part of the physicality in our relationship. It's so minimal between us and she's ALWAYS been a touchy-feely person. She's expressed to me she gets her affection now from our twins and daughter.

I have my opinions on why, but choose never to express to her why because I know it's a DJ to do so. Basically, I'm frustrated because I think our ACTIONS create the feeling of love and she's stated she can't ACT lovingly without the feeling of love. That's why I feel held hostage by her feelings. They dictate her actions. My philosophy that love(care) is a choice, it's a verb. That romance is a feeling that is the fruit of love(care).


I'm doing all I can to meet the other 3 Intimate emotional needs(RC, IC and timely Aff) but the other night when I was talking about SF it was an attempt to be open and honest with her and give her proper feedback so we can negotiate a solution. However, she simply asked me to just not bring it up. That she disagrees with one man's opinion(Dr. Harley - though she says everything else seems right) that SF is NOT an actual emotional need. It meets other needs of affection and admiration. I had zero expectations from her when we talked about it. I simply was trying to have a candid discussion about the elephant in the room. But I don't believe the 'feeling' she's referring to is going to just magically come back by only meeting 1-2 of the most important emotional needs. Is this a false assumptions on my part?

Also she said she wants to get back to 'dating' and 'courting' each other more fervently. We've always done well to go out on dates regularly throughout our marriage, IMO. I think where the problem was that we didn't choose activities that led to meeting the 4 important emotional needs previously. But that exactly what she's referring to what we should do now. Go out and have fun and hope our feelings come back. I think she's right, and that it's an important ingredient, a vital ingredient, but by itself I think it's cheapening our marriage and reducing it down to purely courtship. I'm not saying courtship is wrong, I know it's a vital part of marriage, I'm referencing it, by itself it cheapens the marriage relationship. We have so many other tools at our disposal to raise the standards of our marriage and I feel like she wants to regress back to a 'dating' couple that shares finances, but without any of the affection(namely regularly cudding, kissing, hugging and physical touching each other). I feel like it's a regression of our relationship, not an advancement of our relationship.

I simply don't know how to communicate these feelings to her without it being a disrespectful judgment on my end. I don't want to make the 'unintentional' DJ's of mistakenly being O&H and expressing these concerns of mine to her.

I understand that women need to feel an emotional bond before sex, but I'm really struggling feeling emotionally bonded to my wife without sex. It's that neg. feedback loop Dr. Harley references a lot. The cycle has to break at some point and her comment of "I have no reason NOT to be in love with my husband" tells me, amongst other comments, that I AM meeting her most important emotional needs. How do we break this cycle if I'm not lovebusting and I'm meeting her needs?

What about INCIDENTAL NC?

That's a very big problem

Your feelings are not truth, though. Your wife has handed you the KEY to solving your problem. Your wife has the EXACT right approach and if you don't follow it, well guess what? SHE WON'T BE IN LOVE WITH YOU AGAIN! And if she is not in love, you won't be getting any sex!

So, if you want to have the sex you need in marriage, then start listening to your wife and doing what she says. "Courting" her is the ticket back to a romantic marriage where she feels like meeting your needs.

Follow the policy of undivided attention and schedule out 20+ hours together. You can sit down today and write out the schedule and plan your activities. Do you have the Five steps to romantic love workbook that has the worksheets in it?

If not, notify the mods with your email address and I will email it to you.

My husband courts and romances me EVERY DAY. And vice versa. And guess what? WE ARE IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER. We meet each others needs very well.

You don't know what in the hell you are talking about. This program does not work without the UA time. Everything else is a waste of time if you aren't doing this. There is nothing you can do to create romantic love in your marriage if you are not getting in 20+ hours of UA time. NOTHING. You might as well go eat a pot pie, because anything you do will be futile.

Melodylane, I think you're completely misunderstanding what I am saying. WE ARE dating, we ARE courting. We have ALWAYS done this. We STILL do this. What I am saying is that's ALL she wants out of the marriage relationship right now, that and financial support. She doesn't want any of the affection or SF that accompanies marriage. That's what I meant by it cheapens our marriage.

We live in a city with more than 1.5 million people. We went to a store that's more than 30 minutes from where the POSOM lives. One of our precautions was to always go shopping together, which we did. How in the world can you possibly avoid that HAPHAZARD event? The liklihood of that happening again is remote. She told me about it immediately after he exited the store.

No, that tells you that you are on the threshold of romantic love, but not above it. The threshold is a weird place to be. Things change when you get above it (and stay above it).

Dr. Harley has a test for romantic love. The test does not simply ask "Are you in love?" nor does it ask "Do you have any reason not to be in love?"

You are saying that she is wrong to feel the way she does.

That's a Disrespectful Judgment. It's a Love Buster, a Love Bank withdrawal.

This program does not work if you don't eliminate Disrespectful Judgments.

Have you ever listened to Dr. Harley's radio show? If you did, you would know that if you would do what your wife is asking, and do it well, her feelings for you will return.

Do you want your wife's feelings for you to return, or not?

I'm parroting what she has said to me. She wants just a 'dating' relationship and that's it. And along with it financial support. She doesn't feel comfortable with sex or affection and will rarely give or receive affection.

I've never said to her a lot of the things I've expressed. I know I can't 'straighten' her out. But I'm seeking advice on what to do next. I'm also venting my perspective to find out what is and isn't appropriate to share with my wife.

I DO NOT believe for one minute that you have been spending 20-25 hours per week ALONE courting each other.

The more time you spend with her on DATES the faster she will feel comfortable. But she is very detached and since your Day 1 of recovery was a week ago, you have to start ALL OVER. Every contact puts her back to DAY 1 of recovery.

What are you doing on your dates?

WE KNOW! She is in love with the OM. The solution is to spend 20-25 hours with her creating a romantic bond again.

No we're not, but we are trying to get 12-15 a week. We also have INFANT twins that are CONSTANTLY on opposite schedules. (I'm convinced only those who have had multiples themselves, actually know the strain and endurance it takes those first few months to care for them because the only people to offer to REALLY help us out and follow through are friends that have twins themselves.)
We're doing everything we can to make the program work. And getting the most we can. It's not that I'm not doing my part, it's not that she's not doing her part we're doing what we literally CAN do. We have no family around us right now, and our frineds struggle taking care of infant twins more than we do there's only so much baby-sitting we can arrange and afford. We're up a creek in terms of 20-25 hours. But we CAN do 12-15 every week and we are.

We easily get 30-40 hours a week with the family. But as far as UA time, we usually get 12-15 hours. We're together a LOT.

Lately, we've gone out to dinner, or just went shopping together. We went to 1 movie that we both wanted to see. But that's been the only movie and that was about a month ago.

Need_Meeter, my wife and I have twins. We have a total of six children. The oldest is seven.

You've got to make this work, and it's got to be 15+, not 12-15.

I remember the infant twin days. Wow!