What is the longest someone did plan b and recovered? A summary would be nice. I already spent to many hours following recovery threads and I am getting eye strain.

I have a thread in "recovery" but things are not going so well so I need to move over here.

I am trying to decide if I should do plan b again or is it time to file and move on. I did a plan b with success in 2009 but came back home too early without UA and POJA being mastered to the letter.

I have been dealing with all this for years now and I am running out of steam. I feel if I file D I will move on faster and end up better financially since he is somewhat level minded and not currently in a relationship or A.

He is in a position to stay in plan b more comfortably than I. I am afraid he will eventually want to remarry and then D. I feel I will be at a disadvantage to get what I deserve financially and waiting is taking a tole on my entire being body, spirit, and soul.

He will say
1. She left me although I begged her to stay (although i couldn't tell her that I loved her and would not do POJA or UA and kept doing IB)

2. I am no longer in an affair so our D would be incompatibility not adultery. (His words not mine)

He doesn't go into Plan B. You do. I don't think you've completely understood the concepts yet (Plan B). MelodyLane asked in your other thread if you've read the book, Surviving an Affair, and that's an important first question, because if you've been at this since 2009, it's high time to learn the program if you want to expect any success!

What was your previous posting name in 2009?

no post before.

I mean during plan b he is in our home and i am out of state in a rental , he has all the comforts of home and familiar routine

During Plan B, you are comfortably in your home and he's living under a bridge, in a ratty apartment, in his parents' basement, etc.

What are your conditions in Plan B? What does he have to do to get back in? Does he work with the OW? What exactly?

WHAT does he have to change in order to make your marriage work? People here can't help you if you don't tell them the situation and most don't have time to go read a long thread with endless blog posts to GET IT.

What is your situation? What is the problem?

A few other points:

1. no one "masters" POJA before they reconcile, that is unrealistic

2. he should be the one to move. I would first move home and ask him to move out

3. file for divorce to protect your interests and give him a year. If he doesn't come around in that time, you will be divorced and better off. You can't lose this way

Your question title:


You are trying to decide if you think Plan B is worth it. You are thinking it's a big risk.

Am I right?

yes...a risk or more of my energy and time and possibly financial if I respond to him filing D a yr or two down the road instead of initiate it myself now while he is somewhat lucid and not in a relationship. He would be more fair now...but it could escalate and finish off any hope of recovery.

He is not in an affair. He just quit doing his end of recovery and isn't sure he wants to do it anymore.

I asked this question to SH...he said it would be a good question to ask the board. So I am. I still believe in MB but eventually it does take 2 to make it work.

Conditions: Before I moved back to NM with kids he had to...
1. choose a plan of recovery with a coach (didn't even have to be MB)

2. Work on that plan with me. Me in our house him someplace else.

3. Realize that we will work on that plan until we can do POJA and UA effortlessly (or whatever it is called in another program that has a success rate). It may take one year. When it is effortless for us both we will live together again.

Why these rules? Because the plan b return in 2009 didn't stick. He got comfortable and quit doing the work after 3 months..slipping slipping ever so slowly...I brought up concerns...he flipped it back...I tried again...he flip...I AO...you get the point. The slipping coincided with him deciding to no longer live a personal spiritual life at home but to make it look like he did at church. I can't stand this and told him I did not want to go along with this charades. It caused a big rift between us. He keeps saying I want him to be some spiritual giant and I keep telling him I'd rather he be honest meet my needs and not go to church and pretend at all as long as he lets me go and is honest i could live with that..it wouldn't be perfect but it would be real.

Next I will post the portion from Dr. H that backs up what I am saying.

Sometimes, especially when an unfaithful spouse refuses to end an affair, I recommend no contact at all for plan B. If he wants to contact her, he must talk through a designated mediator. But in this case, I didn't feel that a mediator was necessary and that Ellen could talk with Ken by cell phone. He didn't know her address, however.

Plan B ended with the first counseling session. Ellen gave Ken her address and they planned to meet regularly to complete the lessons.

Ken wanted Ellen to move back to their home immediately, but I recommended that she wait until they were meeting each other's intimate emotional needs almost effortlessly. It turned out that they were separated for about a year because while Ken wanted Ellen with him, he resisted learning the new habits that would meet her emotional needs. He agreed to do everything that was recommended while in the counseling office, but then didn't always follow through on the assignments.

But Ellen was in no hurry to return home. She made it clear to Ken that until their new habits were in place she'd remain separated from him. Fifteen hours a week of undivided attention, using the time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment, was the goal. And they had to practice it until it became almost effortless for both of them. Then, she'd return home.

Toward the end of their program, they would spend the night with each other on a fairly regular basis. He'd be with her, or she'd be with him. So the transition back to living together was almost seamless, and they continue to have a romantic relationship to this day.....

from this link: When to call it quits
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit.html

That is what I am considering, moving back at the semester's end and living in my house... asking him to move out which he has offered to do. He can live with a mutual male friend we know. Problem: he still goes to church and I will go to the same place with my kids. My moving out of state was a good move for the summer and a semester for my own recovery. But now it is making me unhappy. I feel it is time to move back and he move out. I am stronger now..in that I won't take him back so easy.

I am also considering Divorce. I like the way you laid it out. It still gives him a chance of sorts. One assignment from SH is to look into the details of divorce as it would pertain to us. Not that he is advocating D but he says that if I know the details I might see it in a different light. I know some...he wants me to look deeper. He wants me to do more aggressive plan b with IM in lieu of filing.

I gotcha. And I want to make sure there is no OW in the area, right?

Ae you planning on moving back home like we suggested and asking him to leave? This would give him greater motivation to meet your conditions. As it is, he has no motivation because he is in the comfort and safety of your home.

"Conditions: Before I moved back to NM with kids he had to...
1. choose a plan of recovery with a coach (didn't even have to be MB) "

This scares me because there is no other marriage program that really works. I have seen them all. It would be a tragedy to get his agreement only to have your marriage fail because you are in a bad program. There is NO other program that restores the romantic love to your marriage. Most don't even believe it is possible. Marriage Builders stands alone in that regard.

Come on this was from SH. It even says that in the examples in the book...that the WH hated Dr. H so they had to use someone else familiar with the plan.

Of course there is most likely no other plan...but if he finds one and it has good principles I would have to go along with it. He can look...Looking would he good for him.

"I am also considering Divorce. I like the way you laid it out. It still gives him a chance of sorts. "

This strategy protects you in every way and also let's him know you are serious. You can tell him you don't want a divorce and if he changes and commits to MB in that time, you will consider dropping the divorce. And if he doesn't, then you will be divorced. So you win either way. And in the meantime you have legal protection that is put into place NOW while he still amiable. If you wait longer, though, you risk him meeting someone new and getting nasty with you.

Leaving the city as the OW is ideal.

Trust me my kids LOVE it here and when we go back they will badger him to misery about how we should move to XX. I think I will leave this one to prayer.

It is not ideal MB but it is what I feel deep in my gut is the best...the other option is to stay here in a rental and see if he leaves the comforts of home to come join us (he thinks we abandoned him) ...plus it is not working for me emotionally. I am getting angry he is at home in our home with his comfortable routine ...along with 2 job offers for me that need to know by Nov. 1st.

I actually am not clear on this point of go or stay. I am praying to get clear...I am in a fog about this.

But that makes no sense. Just finding some program will not get you anywhere so why even propose it? Looking is not good for him if he doesn't find an effective program. Why would you "have" to go along with something that you know is not effective after all you have been through? Since when does the wayward set the conditions for recovery?

WHAT program has good principles that will restore the romantic love in your marriage?

"But Ellen was in no hurry to return home. She made it clear to Ken that until their new habits were in place she'd remain separated from him. Fifteen hours a week of undivided attention, using the time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment, was the goal. And they had to practice it until it became almost effortless for both of them. Then, she'd return home."

What other program besides Marriage Builders promotes the above principles, which are ESSENTIAL to the restoration of romantic love?

Most marriage counselors and gurus are destructive to marriages so you would be playing Russian roulette with your marriage by agreeing to try another program.

Go read Dr Harley's article about how destructive other marriage programs are: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2313031#Post2313031

Just combine Plan B and D.

Its often done for legal and financial reasons because the WS must be uncomfortable and ousted, the BS should be sitting pretty.

And an intermediary is a MUST. You can't communicate with an unrepentant wayward!

The example you quote isn't an infidelity Plan B, which is different.

Make yourself a great life in Plan B and he can join it, if he gets a clue.

Link in my sig explains Plan B preps.

I don't think you got what I was saying. He will not find better. So if he chooses recovery he will have to choose MB. It is just all fog talk. I am just saying what SH and DR H say. I have heard Dr. Harley say that a WS was very angry with him since he was the architect of the plan b in the first place so the couple had to use a different m counselor who followed MB principles.

My h actually talked to SH last week and softened up a bit. He just hasn't decided if he wants to choose recovery. S showed him a bigger picture. He listened to my H complaints "it would be too much work blah blah"...and showed him a bigger picture of the kids, his future happiness, outcomes etc.

Honestly I am waking up to the point this is really a spiritual battle. He didn't just reject us he rejected God too but wants to somehow keep his integrity in front of others. I am wondering if he thinks he can ever really be a spiritual person again. He didn't leave his job...people know...people confronted him about it.

So at church he is in a compartment and pretends to be okay (though he knows some close to us know)...at work he just goes and does his job (say's it isn't as fun anymore) ....at the gym he lifts weights...at the golf course he walks the dogs and says hi to our dog friends (he is esteemed a good dog owner) His life is not integrated. He hated that I didn't join him or let him be compartmentalized. This is one thing porn addiction worked on. He use to try to convince me to live in the moment. The porn recovery had a whole lesson on the end result of living in the moment.

Actually SH agreed to the plan for recovery starting with him doing the porn recovery program again. I talked to the program directors and they said that when he did the program in 2009 it was only 3 months long and they now realize you can not recover in 3 months. It takes 6 months minimum and you have to keep practicing the principles. Recovery from addiction is NOT no longer doing the addiction but being recovered in your thoughts and actions ....otherwise you are what AA calls a dry drunk...not drinking but still in the same behaviors of an addict... protective lying about stuff, still flipping it back when others bring up a concern.

Honestly I think MB and Candeo (porn recovery) were a huge compliment to each other. Yes Candeo helped immensely but learning the techniques of MB are essential to sustained recovery or even a good marriage sans any affair.

So my question....how long in plan b and you had a recovery?