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"I feel disrespected when I am making attempts to please you and you come in and point out my failures. It makes me feel like giving up. I would appreciate it if you would encourage me instead of blaming me. How about if we sit down and make a new plan of attack? CWMI sent me this great website to help, will you look at it with me?"
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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Also another excellent clip on the different types of resentment and how to get POJA to work. Tell us what you think. Radio clip on resentment and POJA
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Anyway, if we could work it out with an OCD person, ya'll have a good chance because your husband is not OCD, right? Is he demanding perfection? Is the list of chores beyond what is possible? He is a self-professed perfectionist. DS is high on his EN's list. He thinks because the kids and I are home all day and 90% of the mess is ours we should be the ones to clean the house. We clean the house daily. Sweep/vac, dishwasher, laundry and trash. Thing is, we are in the house 24/7, there's always something to put away or do. We homeschool. So, there are books, arts and crafts, random writings and illustrations around. Life. It's looks like kids live here. He wants our homeschool, housework and dinner finished and put away by 6. That's his biggest issue. It gets done, just not by 6. Sometimes we must leave for outside classes or errands. That means all this stuff needs to be done by 3. Because we live so far out is takes 30 to 45 mins just in drive time do anything. We often return home from these outings after 6. He comes home, we aren't here. Chores aren't done, supper isn't ready.
Me 47 Him 47 Married 27 years dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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Yikes, TenaciousOne, this sounds like my house before we started MarriageBuilders! My H is the stay at home Dad, and we also educate our children at home. I would come home from work and have to spend 3 hours cooking/cleaning and doing laundry...
First of all, I think all of this can be POJA'd-you just have to keep working/refining it until you are both happy. It is critical during this time that you keep up the UA time. Whatever you do, do not use your UA time for POJA'ing these tricky topics. POJA is great, but it takes time to get it right. It will come easier to both of you when your UA time is consistently high.
A couple of things that helped my H as far as the running of the household:
If possible plan 30-45 minitues of chore time first thing in the morning. This way you are starting off with a clean slate. Make a list and assign on a daily/weekly basis. Every-one- except for infants/toddlers (under 18 months)- gets to do something. Absolutely no toys out while schoolwork is being done. No fun stuff/optional activities until schoolwork is done. One toy/type of toy out at a time. Example if they are playing with legos and want to play a game or do a puzzle, the legos must be put away before another game/puzzle is got out. 15 minute clean up at the end of the day (before supper/leaving for activity). Plan supper-either have it in the crockpot first thing, or have a half dozen go-to meals that you always have the ingredients on hand for, that can be made in 20-30 minutes.
I think you are doing better than you think you are - you just have to keep working it. You are not back to square one if your husband has given up the gaming and is expresing his desires. Go over your ENQ's again and refine-talk to your H about LB's-your and his. Remember, the biggest gift you can give your kids a great marriage! Keep at it-this program works. Hope this helps. Good Luck! RC
H 40 W 40 M 18 Children 7 - aged 10 months to 15 years
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I know this doesn't rise to the level of some of the recent discussion on here, but it matters to me. We were having dinner yesterday. DH ordered a salad, as the server was leaving the table, I said, "Hold the croutons." He shot me a look, rolled his eyes and grimaced. I asked him, "What did I do?" He said I was out of line by saying hold the croutons. That he's not a child,he can order what and how he wants. OK, I don't disagree with that.
This year he discovered that all his digestive issues are due to celiac disease. As the primary cook, I have educated myself on what he can eat and cannot. He said to me, "Just tell me what to eat." He hasn't self-educated. He doesn't remember to read labels. He eats wheat, gets sick, misses work.
How should I have handled the croutons? Obviously, it pissed him off. I think I should say nothing, actually. We were at a party. His sister (knowing he has celiac) offered him a cupcake. He ate it, saying he didn't want to hurt her feelings. I was livid. He was sick for two days. I work my tail off to cook grain free food for him and our DD, read about their illness, educating myself so I can cook healthy meals for them.
Should I not be so invested? Should I not care? Should I keep my mouth shut? And knowingly, let him eat wheat?
Me 47 Him 47 Married 27 years dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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I would leave him alone. He didn't like you telling the waitress to hold the croutons, so don't do that again. It was a lovebuster. All you had to do was say you are sorry and move on. Don't pester him about this anymore; just give him the correct information and leave it.
I am in the same boat as you, so I have learned how much you can damage a marriage by trying to tell your husband how to eat. It doesn't work and you only harm your marriage!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I probably would have done the same thing, sadly! My H is lactose intolerant. I don't manage it for him, but it's not quite as bad as what you're describing. It's not something that was diagnosed, we just 'discovered' it by experimentation. He said it couldn't be that because he's always eaten dairy, and he's always had the same issue (lolol), so I suggested we try taking him off it for a week and see if his problem cleared up. It did. His attitude now is kinda like, "Well, neato. I'll pay for eating this bowl of cheese dip, but it's worth it."
But it's nothing he loses work over.
I don't know much about celiac. Are there serious long-term consequences? Or is this something where he's willing to pay the price for having a cupcake occasionally?
I would make it more about how much it bothers you to see him make himself sick, and less about how he should listen to you and let you manage his care.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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Celiac is an autoimmune disease. It takes a long time to heal the intestine. It's complicated. It bothers me greatly to see him make himself sick! It is a lovebuster for me too.
Me 47 Him 47 Married 27 years dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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Celiac is an autoimmune disease. It takes a long time to heal the intestine. It's complicated. It bothers me greatly to see him make himself sick! It is a lovebuster for me too. But you need to handle it in a way that does not lovebust HIM. The fact that you don't like seeing him sick is not a justification for your lovebuster. Do you see that? You shouldn't be directing his life like he is a child. That is a disrespectful judgment. You can only tell him you are concerned and use respectful persuasion to get him to make better choices.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yeah, I read up on it now. He can destroy his intestines and die of malnutrition. That's a bit different from what my H deals with!
Does he understand the seriousness of correctly managing his diet? Is he under a doctor's care? Can you talk to the doctor, and let him/her be the heavy?
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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No, he doesn't understand the seriousness. He isn't under the care of the dr. The treatment is complete avoidance of the food. When he discovered that it is wheat that makes him sick, he asked me to tell him what to do. He said, "Cook the food and I'll eat it."
I truly had no idea that "Hold the croutons" was an LB. After everything he's asked me to do for him, hold the croutons didn't seem like "directing his life for him." He asks me to do many things for him.
Me 47 Him 47 Married 27 years dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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He has gone to GI doctors in the past. Their recommendations never worked. The only thing that has worked is a wheat free diet. It is serious. We've had to cut outings short or not go at all. He's missed work. I don't want to LB my husband, but I don't want him sick either. I can't MAKE him cook his food, read about his illness and the effects, be proactive in his own health. He ASKED me to do it for him.
Me 47 Him 47 Married 27 years dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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How should I have handled the croutons? Obviously, it pissed him off. You should not have spoken to the waitress. After the waitress left, you might have quietly suggested to him that he think about taking out the croutons as they make him ill. Then later POJA exactly this scenario with him so that in future you have the right actions in place for future incidents. Part of the POJA is going to be your feelings about having to nurse self inflicted injuries.
3 adult children Divorced - he was a serial adulterer Now remarried, thank you MB (formerly lied_to_again)
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Celiac is an autoimmune disease. It takes a long time to heal the intestine. It's complicated. It bothers me greatly to see him make himself sick! It is a lovebuster for me too. This isn't an answer to the problem you posted, but I just want to add that coelic disease is an allergy to gluten, not just to wheat. "Gluten, which is found in wheat, barley and rye triggers an immune reaction in people with coeliac disease. This means that eating gluten damages the lining of the small intestine. Other parts of the body may be affected." http://www.coeliac.org.uk/coeliac-disease/what-is-coeliac-diseaseWhy isn't he under the care of a doctor? Receiving medical instructions about the seriousness of his disease, and how to manage it, might make him take the issue seriously. Many restaurants will offer gluten-free alternatives to food like croutons. I agree with the advice that said you need to talk about this and POJA how much help you can give your H, and under what circumstances.
BW Married 1989 His PA 2003-2006 2 kids.
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Has he been tested for celiac disease? If this is just something you guys experimented with (like us), I'd suggest that you speak to him about getting the tests done for a definitive answer. To be tested, though, he needs to eat a 'normal' diet, because avoiding gluten can affect the accuracy of results. Talk to the doctor beforehand and find out how he should eat in the days or weeks prior to the initial test.
According to my research, they do one series (blood tests and biopsy the intestines) for an initial diagnosis, then another series ~6 mos later after strictly following a gluten-free diet, which should show healthy intestines, in order to complete the diagnosis.
I would just tell him that you are not enthusiastic about ignoring the seriousness of this, and ask him to go to the doctor to be sure, so you both can get clear guidelines on what to do to make sure that you get to love on him for many, many years to come. If your regular provider has been unhelpful, google something like "recommended celiac physicians + your town" to find a new one. LOTS of people like to talk about diseases and good and bad doctors on the internet.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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I believe that Dr Harley has said something to the effect of POJA not applying when it comes to health and safety or an emergency, but this isn't quite in the category of someone having a heart attack who won't allow you to call an ambulance, where you can override their objection.
I'll search the private forum to see if I can find anything similar that he has advised on.
BW Married 1989 His PA 2003-2006 2 kids.
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I truly had no idea that "Hold the croutons" was an LB. After everything he's asked me to do for him, hold the croutons didn't seem like "directing his life for him." He asks me to do many things for him. But now you do know, so you can stop doing it in the future. It is up to him to tell you when something bothers him so he did the right thing. Just tell him you are sorry and drop it. My husband would have been embarrassed if I spoke on his behalf to a waitress so I would know not to do it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We will POJA this tonight, when he gets home. His reaction (eye roll, the look, the grimace) was a DJ no? I understand we should complain without being disrespectful. It seems disrespectful, correct me if I'm wrong.
Me 47 Him 47 Married 27 years dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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We will POJA this tonight, when he gets home. His reaction (eye roll, the look, the grimace) was a DJ no? I understand we should complain without being disrespectful. It seems disrespectful, correct me if I'm wrong. What will be your approach about your own disrespectful behavior? You upset him when you spoke for him to the waitress. How will you address this?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I will not come between him and his food. He is a grown up capable of making food choices and living with the consequences. I will not get upset if he eats something he shouldn't. That is his business; not mine. Did I miss anything?
Me 47 Him 47 Married 27 years dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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