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A reminder to posters to help this poster find solutions using Marriage Builders concepts. Posting other resources that are not endorsed by Dr. Harley is against our TOS.
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If there are no children and you are not even 30 years old, then I would recommend Plan D. Adultery after 1 year, for 5 years. That's 5/6 years of your marriage.
And this "particular act"? Since it is a sex act that you are unwilling to participate in, and one that he is apparently willing to go outside the marriage to meet for FIVE years, I have a very hard time believing that he will not seek out additional partners in the future to fulfill it. It sounds as if he feels entitled to get this particular act met outside of marriage if his wife is unwilling.
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WH is getting tired of me bringing it up, in fact he absolutely hates me ever mentioning her and would be perfectly happy never thinking or talking about her again ooh boy, this is another huge problem. Every time you bring it up, you make yourself and him miserable. Don't talk about it again. This will keep you resentful for years if you do this and it will drive a wedge between you and your husband. I think being unable to talk about one's gripping pain with one's spouse is a sure resentment builder. Especially if the hurting spouse already feels deeply inadequate. There must be a way for 2Cents to release and express her pain/grief without being *punished* by her husband. I am of the opinion that the spouse without PTSD needs to step up to the plate, and make the effort to comfort their hurting spouse. I agree he needs to step up to the plate and comfort her. The Harley quote I posted above was a post Dr Harley made to a board member that HAS PTSD. [you know her] Talking about her feelings and the affair kept her in a negative feedback loop for years. But once Dr Harley persuaded her to stop it, she started getting better in leaps and bounds. Instead of building resentment, it actually lessened it because talking about it kept her perpetually triggered. It also pushed her husband away at a time when she needed him most.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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If there are no children and you are not even 30 years old, then I would recommend Plan D. Adultery after 1 year, for 5 years. That's 5/6 years of your marriage.
. I did not realize she was this young and had been married such a short amount of time. Dr Harley would agree that she should consider leaving the marriage. There are no practical reasons to stay.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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There must be a way for 2Cents to release and express her pain/grief without being *punished* by her husband. I am of the opinion that the spouse without PTSD needs to step up to the plate, and make the effort to comfort their hurting spouse. This is a serious marital problem that needs to be POJA'd until you discover a solution where both spouses are happy. Not being able to mention one's PTSD pain hardly falls under "enthusiastic agreement". This is such a major POJA situation. What we forum members *think* you ought to do is less important than a solution you and H work on together. Question: (please answer)Have you and H ever successfully POJA'd a solution to any dilemma?
Last edited by Pepperband; 10/12/12 10:48 AM.
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Here is Dr H's post to our friend who has PTSD over on the private forum: "Stop talking to each other about your husband's affair, and start learning to avoid disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts. It makes it harder to put the past behind you when you talk about it. You bring the past into the present and relive the tragedy whenever it's discussed."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Did I miss where 2Cents wrote she is is having angry outbursts?
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Did I miss where 2Cents wrote she is is having angry outbursts? No, I don't think she is. The point of the quote that discussing the problems of the past brings it into the present. Avoiding that helps her recover FASTER.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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thank you for all these thoughts so far, and I can't wait to listen to the radio segments (don't have audio at the moment). I have actually never listened to the radio clips and it will be wonderful to have some new material - I have read the articles and Q and A on affairs to the point that I can probably recite them 
I am wondering if MelodyLane has a point about 3-4 weeks being a cut off for women for my case. I think what is haunting me is everything in the diaries that I read and the things I saw and the things he has said to me (when he was being a jerk). Now its too late to take all of it out of my head but if there was a pill that would make me forget I might actually take it.
I am not kidding that there was probably a book's worth of feelings in his diaries all going on and on and ON about OW. Unfortunately I read it all. So its like I feel like I was living inside his head and KNOWING how he felt makes this such a nightmare. There were even places where he compared us physically (her being the clear winner). Now how does a woman ever get over that?
Sometimes, when I feel that I can't move past this, I feel like I am the one with a problem. He spends time with me, bends over backwards to meet my needs, can't wait to come home to me and so on and on. So now, aside of dealing with haunting memories of the past, I am dealing with feeling like a failure. Because it seems that he is ready to move on and has taken every step to, while I am stuck in the past.
More importantly, have you ever discussed this entire situation with your physician? All of it. The 5 year affair. The diary. Your dreams. Your PTSD. ???? Have you ever addressed possible anxious/depressive symptoms with a physician?That is why I have started wondering if there is truly too much damage at some point. Even though things are wonderful now... I feel like my true happiness with him has been robbed.
Some days I don't think about it. But most days... I do.
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Dr. Harley says resentment is the last thing to disappear.
In our counselling with SH, he told me that I SHOULD be sharing my resentful thoughts with my WH, and that I SHOULD be telling my WH what my triggers are, and when I am experiencing them. Otherwise, my WH will not understand my state of mind, and be bewildered by my withdrawn attitude. However, my sharing with my WH should be in a positive, partner-based manner, which provides my WH with information about me and how he can aid my recovery. Here is an example:
WH: How are you feeling?
Me: I am a little sad. I am triggering because tomorrow is my birthday, and when I thought about my birthdays in the past two years, we were not together. I was sad to think you would choose not to be with me then.
WH: But I am with going to be with you this time!
Me: Yes, and I am happy about that.
WH: You should stop thinking about the past! Look to the future...
Me: I am eager to make happy memories with you about this event, starting with this birthday. This will help me overcome the trigger.
In this exchange, I am expressing my sadness, and the fact that I am triggering. I am NOT blaming WH, nor getting angry or resentful. I am giving my WH a clue about my state of mind, and reinforcing our plan of action to overcome it. I am staying in partnership w/ my WH, not becoming adversarial.
Have you considered counselling w/ Steve, 2 cents?
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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That is why I have started wondering if there is truly too much damage at some point. Even though things are wonderful now The more *severe* the damage, the longer the resentment lingers. That's what Dr. Harley writes. The more there is to resent, the more resentment there is. I think it is important for you to realize that this experience has profoundly changed you. If you decide to give up on this marriage tomorrow, the pain and PTSD will not diminish. You will need to develop a method of minimizing your PTSD with or without your marriage. In other words, divorce is not a sure-fire cure for erasing painful memories. Please, I urge you to seek a professional's opinion about your mental/emotional health.
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I found another exchange between Dr Harley and our friend with PTSD on the private forum that focuses on bringing up the past. I want to emphasize that once she finally took his advice and stopped talking about it, her improvement was quite dramatic. I used this same method when it came to overcoming my own personal tragedies from 1999-2000. Once I stopped talking about it, and stopped surrounding myself with triggers, the pain faded much faster so I do believe this is the correct way to handle trauma. Also, since we are on the subject, how do you suggest I tell my husband when I am triggering like crazy while we are enjoying RC together?
For example a song came on at the restaurant that we were at and it was a song that the OW had put on a "romantic" CD for my husband and instead of crying at the table, I got up and went to the bathroom. However I was still teary eyed when I returned to the table. We talked about why I was upset and I told him. Should I lie about this when it happens in order to avoid "talking about the affair"? I am trying to follow the PORH and meet the EN of being O&H but am not sure what to do in this situation.
We do not talk about the A in the sense of details or anything like that...it's always something that triggers me and I am stuck with either lying to him about why I am teary-eyed or telling him the truth. Either way I d*mned if I do and d*mned if I don't.
I have no desire to "talk about the affair" but am at a complete loss as to what to do when I am triggered and reminded of some very cruel things that were said and done to me during that time. I feel angry that I am reminded of these things and often end up in tears. Dwelling on mistakes of the past. If you have a conflict, negotiate with each other to find a solution that you would both enthusiastically agree to. But if it's residual feeling of past offenses, don't mention them. It's a conversation stopper and a destroyer of what could have been an enjoyable time together.
The point is to avoid saying anything that would bother the other person, except to complain about something that the other person just did. I realize that it prevents you from addressing offenses of the past, but that's precisely what I want you to avoid. You'll find that your relationship will improve greatly if you pick up land mines so that you don't find yourselves tripping over them when you spend time together. By picking them up, I'm referring to protecting each other from things you might say when something has triggered a memory of a past offense.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Have you considered counselling w/ Steve, 2 cents? Good question.It is my opinion that your H should be the one counseling with a MB person (Steve or anyone). With the goal of H discovering ways to help YOU release most of the resentments he caused. Your H needs to learn better MB-style tools to lovingly handle the times when you are in pain. Making actual *just compensation* for his offense towards the marriage is necessary for a reduction of resentment. Especially in situations like this. That is my (very strong) opinion.
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Why Can't We Just Forgive And Forget? <~~~ Link to MB site basic concept. The concept of *just compensation* is addressed.
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IMO .... The *just compensation* that would really help you the most is, your H enthusiastically boards the MARRIAGE BUILDERS train and embraces the program for all he's worth.
Has he done this?
If yes, tell us about his MB efforts.
If not, why not?
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From your first post:Even though we have moved away, everytime I see a woman who looks anything like her, whether in a magazine or on the street, or even a female college student, I start thinking about her and WH and the documented diary of how he felt about her.
What have you tried so far?
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Have you considered counselling w/ Steve, 2 cents? Good question.It is my opinion that your H should be the one counseling with a MB person (Steve or anyone). With the goal of H discovering ways to help YOU release most of the resentments he caused. Your H needs to learn better MB-style tools to lovingly handle the times when you are in pain. Making actual *just compensation* for his offense towards the marriage is necessary for a reduction of resentment. Especially in situations like this. That is my (very strong) opinion. Strongly agree. And I would like to see an answer to Pep's two questions: have you and your H ever POJA'ed anything, and how much MB has your husband gotten involved with (reading, radio, etc.)? Dr. Harley has stated that it is essential for the husband to get on board with treating his wife thoughtfully. Marriage Builders is a set of guidelines for doing that. Without him doing this (whether he was wayward or not, whether she was wayward or not), the relationship is going to be lousy and depressing to the wife, and it is certainly not going to be able to recover from an affair. I'm seeing posts on this thread about him punishing her when she brings up the mistakes of the past. In order to recover, she needs to not bring up the mistakes of the past, but if she breaks a rule, HE MUST NOT LOVE BUST. Punishment is abuse. Guess what Dr. Harley tells my coach when I call her with an issue she brings to him? First sentence: "Tell him, 'No Love Busters, markos!'"
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Thanks Markos ! And I would like to see an answer to Pep's two questions: have you and your H ever POJA'ed anything, and how much MB has your husband gotten involved with (reading, radio, etc.)? Exactly!  I think it's not advisable to ask the wife with PTSD to follow MB to the letter without her H being 100% on board as well. If 2Cents follows MB and her H does not, the resentment mountain will grow.
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Thanks Markos ! And I would like to see an answer to Pep's two questions: have you and your H ever POJA'ed anything, and how much MB has your husband gotten involved with (reading, radio, etc.)? Exactly! I think it's not advisable to ask the wife with PTSD to follow MB to the letter without her H being 100% on board as well. If 2Cents follows MB and her H does not, the resentment mountain will grow. In the case of a former wayward husband who is being thoughtless, not following the policy of joint agreement, not involved in recovery, and punishing his wife if she makes a mistake, following Marriage Builders to the letter, for her, would mean going to a dark plan B for protection. Dr. Harley would tell a woman in such a case to make plans for a separation.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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following Marriage Builders to the letter, for her, would mean going to a dark plan B for protection. Dr. Harley would tell a woman in such a case to make plans for a separation. And she wrote: Even though things are wonderful now Which makes me wonder if H is, or is not following MB recovery. Or, if H is even familiar with MB. We can't really give her stellar MB advice until we know the answer to that question. And, 2Cents, the answer is either "yes he is", or, "no he is not".
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