I've read many texts why you should not come in with a mea culpa letter but nothing else is working so I doing it unless someone can convince me otherwise. Adverse case says mea culpa shows - not a leader of men, no confidence, not a protector of family loved ones, etc.

I would really like to see an answer to my question.

It does not sound like you are familiar with Dr. Harley's material, and I believe Dr. Harley's material can really help you put together a plan.

Yes I read it. Thank you. A part of the plan that I am missing is how I open up communication. I sent her a letter to her atty, no response, I send a reconciliation agreement proposal, no response. I have other women that want me and I am breaking mentally and physically that I can't last much longer. On one hand I just want to file abandonment divorce and move on.

What do you mean you "can't last much longer"?

Starting to date. I can't sleep without sleeping pills, doc said soon I will go into clinical depression unless conflict is resolved one way or another. Moving on remarrying resolves the conflict. My children are the only thing holding me back. If it was just her I would have taken the damage of a failed marriage and all the shame of a divorce and already moved on.

Resolving the conflict wouldn't require dating, would it?

The doctor said "conflict resolved" not "you need a woman in your life," right?

I want to have only one wife even when she says she doesn't love me. Even when she says that our whole marriage has been a lie. Even when she took all the money out of our joint account. Their is what we know is right and their is what we end up doing.

I'm a little confused by this post. What does this mean? What are you planning to do? A mea culpa letter? Do you mean you're going to grovel and take the blame for something that may not be your fault? DON'T DO IT.

Add me in with the others. I think your wife is having an affair.

1. Since nothing else is working I am going to try moving in a different direction.
2. Most criticisms of a mea culpa letter is that it explicitly demonstrates many of the traits that women feel brought the relationship to the broken state it is in. Saying sorry I'll do whatever you want. Shows no confidence. You were right about the problems is taken as weakness and that you will continue to exeudues weakness, begging for a second chance, crying that you can't go on without her. The person that cares the least about the relationship is the one in control of the relationship.
3. A man that begs and apologizes is weak and implies he has no plan, the woman should have the plan for reconciliation.
4. A letter mea cupla, taking the blame for the failures, asking for a second chance, admiting my weaknesses that caused my failures.
5. What do I have to lose nothing else has worked. I will consider every action I can take. If it doesn't work try something different. My first criteria has been to consider the goal, "first do no harm" then second exhaust every tool as I have nothing to lose and the longer I wait the statistically more likely we will never reconcile and the more likely I will give in or lose my will to fight.
6. Based upon what? How do I go about finding out without being accused of stalking? I'll find out from discovery after filing for divorce.

All right NAF � here is my take on your situation based on what I�ve read. I acknowledge that we still have pretty limited information. You may share more information that will change my perspective � but this is what I see so far.

Based on what I�ve read I don�t think you fully understand or appreciate what has happened in your marriage. Because you do not understand the underlying problems, you cannot formulate an effective solution. Many of the things you�ve done in an attempt to repair your marriage have actually made it worse, understandably. Without proper guidance you are likely to continue to make things worse. Your instincts will not guide you in the right direction � in fact they will probably doom you.

You have failed to appreciate that your wife is very likely having an affair and what the implications of this are. It sounds like she has gone a long time in your marriage with her ENs unmet. She, (just like ALL of us would be) is thus incredibly vulnerable to allowing her most important emotional needs to be met by someone outside her marriage. When you combine knowledge of this vulnerability with her current behavior, you should be incredibly suspicious (not dismissive) that she is having at least an EA. By the way, being religious � or any other attribute, does not protect or preclude one from having an affair.

You pursuing divorce and dating other women will not end with you being happily married to the mother of your children.

She has shut you out because she has NO hope that a marriage with you will ever be satisfying. This is why she is refusing contact with you.

You are minimizing her complaints against you and trying to explain them away. No wonder she wants nothing to do with you. This is a totally failed strategy.

So, assuming I�m right on most of these points here is my advice.

I would not move forward. I would not send any letters. I would not do anything to facilitate divorce. I would do nothing except �do no harm� until you have a clear understanding of what went wrong in your marriage and particularly *your role in the breakdown.* Once you have a clear understanding of what went wrong, then you can come up with an effective plan to set things right. We can help you � but the truth is it is going to take more than some nice people on the internet. You either need to consult Dr Harley and/or at least buy and read Fall In Love, Stay In Love and Lovebusters. Start with LoveBusters as I think this is where much of your problem lies.

Yes, your wife has contributed her part in your marriage disaster. At some point she will need to come to the table � but you need to set that table and make it attractive, help her see that what is being served there is different and much better than what she has been forced to subsist on in your old marriage.

You need to find out if your wife is having an affair. Emotional, non physical affairs are JUST AS DAMAGING to a marriage as a physical affair. You need to find out if an affair is happening � not to punish or humiliate your wife � but to eliminate the affair and its toxic effect on your wife�s mind. If she is getting her most important emotional needs met by another man, she will never come to the table with you.

I know you�ve been hurting for many months. I hear at times you feel ready to give in and start dating other women. Do not do either. Based on what I�ve read the last 6 months have been a waste. The clock hasn�t even started ticking. I don�t think you should even consider a divorce until after 1 year of an effective plan in place. You don�t have that yet.

Finally I�ll admit your marriage may already be too far gone. You may have lost your wife� You can't control that and you can't control her. But you can control you. And I think there are many good things that you haven�t done yet so I see that as a GREAT reason for hope.

Action steps

1)Do no more harm. Do not attempt to interact with your wife in any way that may cause a further drain on your love back account. You can�t afford it.

2)Get and read LoveBusters and Fall In Love, Stay in Love � ASAP

3)Quietly and discreetly do everything you can to investigate the possibility of an affair. If there is one, we can help. Remember, this isn�t a witch hunt. The goal is not to embarrass or condemn your wife. The goal is to root out a toxic distraction and win back the love of your wife.

4)After reading those two books, make a specific list of how you will be different and better as a husband if your wife decides to re-engage. Be extremely specific. Come here and we can help you put that plan in place.

NAF, you can do this. Many of us have gone through similar things and come out the other end � happier and better. But you need to get your head around this and grab on to something you can change � you.

I just read your post about sending a letter of apology. I think that may be part of your next strategic move - but it needs to be tight, informed and inspiring - and less of apology (though that will be part of it) and more of a vision for a mutually satisfyig future. Hold off. Let's get a clear plan in place. Vague apologies and promises without specifics will do nothing but tell your wife you 'still don't get it.'

Wow you really put a lot of thought and effort into killing divorce. I agree with most of what you have said. So lets say I have my plan. Do I give a polished mea culpa(with your suggestions) and then also a separate plan that identifies the wife's ENs and what the plan is to meet them? And identifies the
love busters against your wife that have historically occurred over the marriage and the plan's specific strategies and goals to be successful at avoiding them in the future?

So I give this information to her and then give her time to review it and hope she responds to me or that it opens up a dialogue? And I would submit these two documents before taking any other action?

I think that sounds like a very good idea. Write your wife a letter telling her you love her and you want to have an integrated life with her. Communicate to her that you are willing to learn to meet her emotional needs (you don't have to be specific on these, other than pulling in what you might know about her past complaints).

This is a part of Plan A. Have you read about Dr. Harley's Plan A?

Plan A:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

The Carrot and Stick of Plan A:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2296184#Post2296184

Here is your number one resource for killing divorce:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/

Sit in class every day. You are going to need it.

NAF, this is a fantastic plan for you. Please DO these things, and also take to heart seriously what BWS71 has said about needing to understand the cause of your marital problems. You cannot really solve the problems if you do not understand them.

You know, if you do everything you can possibly do to save your marriage, and your wife still divorces you, I think you are completely wise and within your rights to build a new life with someone else.

But you are not divorced at this time, so I think you are a long way from thinking about dating and finding a new wife. Please, for the sake of your marriage, your wife and children (who need you to ACT and save them from this fate), and for your own sake, do not entertain such thoughts at this time.

We are all wired for affairs, according to Dr. Harley. As you have correctly observed, there is what we know to be right, and what we do. Even though we know what is right, we are wired to be with somebody, and if we fulfill the right conditions with somebody, our bodies and minds will make us want to be with them whether we are married to them or not.

So it is important for all of us to take EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to make sure that we do not have an affair.

Your children already have a disaster because their mother is not committed to their family. Please do not make it worse by dangling bait in front of yourself that would tempt you away from their family as well.

You need to be their hero, sir. A real man who is capable of being their rock.

Okay, your wife is in withdrawal. Dr. Harley divides the ten emotional needs into two types. Four needs are the intimate emotional needs:
Intimate conversation
Affection
Recreational Companionship
Sexual Fulfillment

In a healthy marriage, these things are all going on, and husband and wife both call it "romance." A typical husband will list RC and SF as his top two needs or at least rate them highly, a typical wife will list conversation and affection as her top two, or at least rate them highly.

A person in what Dr. Harley calls the state of Withdrawal will not seem to feel those intimate needs. They don't WANT to do these four things with their spouse. So their needs turn out to be "domestic support" or "financial support" or whatever. Those are important, but they do not restore LOVE to the marriage.

An affair always causes the wayward spouse to feel Withdrawal toward their spouse. I'm just pointing that out. There are other causes of withdrawal, but they are Love Busters. Unless you are frequently demanding, disrespectful, or angry, the only likely explanation for your wife's Withdrawal is an affair.

Read about the three states of mind in marriage:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3600_state.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3605_state.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3610_state.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3615_state.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3620_state.html

CAN'T READ TOOOO BLURRRRYYYY!