You have worked hard and long moving out will not help. A one on one phone session with the Harley's.

They are a litle bit better then us posters.

Mike, so sorry you are having a rough time. Keep in mind that 18 months isn't long enough to have fully recovered. I've been dealing with a few triggers myself the last couple of days due to the antiversaries being upon me...and I'm at the 2 year mark. (Just mentioned in my own thread how I used to love October! I'm a Fall person myself.)

Dealing with a LTA I imagine means it takes longer to recover. Stay focused on the long term goal rather than your immediate feelings. Have a plan of action for when you are feeling down - do everything and anything in your power to engage your brain: take a class, or take up a new hobby - preferably with your wife. Plan a project - and not an easy one, but one that requires total brain focus. Read an uplifting book - or a funny one. One of the best tools? Doing some volunteer work. The way our brain works, when we do good for others we are uplifting ourselves - positivity begets positivity within us. Even a small compliment or nicety to a stranger in a store (within good boundaries of course - not flirting, obviously) can make us feel better.

I've battled depression myself at different times and am just passing along some things that have worked for me.

I don't like ADs myself - not as a long term solution. Consider some Vitamin D supplements though. It's been proven that there's a strong link between depression and Vitamin D. (Or get out into the sun at least 15-30 minutes a day.)

By all means, do a phone session if you can!

Thanks.

I want to chew on this for a while, Mike, but I'd urge you to remember some things:

1) Your best non-pharmaceutical "medicine" right now is the ongoing efforts of your wife to help you through these episodes. Vacating her presence is exactly the wrong action.

2) You will NEVER be able to "fix" the past. You will be more comfortable if you continue to build walls to keep the past IN the past.

E - A - O - T - P !

Wow, Mike...the scripts are similar. The services are very tough for her, and were this year as well.

I do remember last year W didn't speak "that" sin out loud -- this year she did -- as we recited it.

She wept in the car on the way home...squeezed my hand almost til it broke, and mouthed "I am so sorry" a few times.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that it's only been what, 18 months (March 2011 exposed the affair) for us, and maybe we need to be more gentle with ourselves once in awhile.

The thing is, and I don't know if it matters a whit, while I reference March 2011 as the true "end" of the affair and beginning of recovery, W references much earlier, the Fall of 2010, as the "end" of the affair, says it was over and done, really by then...BUT, she also recognizes that our true recovery didn't begin until exposure and OM was off the job and out of her life...

hang in there buddy. I try my best to remember that it could be (and was) much worse then, and we have more good days than bad now.

Progress, not perfection.

H and I have fall hobbies that we thoroughly enjoy. Just this morning I was thinking to myself how happy and positive I've been lately, and attributing it to the pleasure I have in LIFE (not just with H but with my life in general, although that is obviously a big factor) right now, and how important it is for me to have things to focus on and look forward to that are not 'recovery' based. Just things that make life fun, ya know? I suggest it.

Is there some fall/winter hobby or activity your W and you enjoy together, that you can get more involved in?

Or just get out together and enjoy the crisp fall air as much as possible, I went ATVing in the fall colors on Saturday, which happened to be my birthday, did a little bit of hunting too. Days like that make me totally forget that we are in 'recovery,' I am just happily married and out with my husband having fun.

Also maybe take a look at other things in your life? I know for me, if I have issues with kids, issues with job, etc. then all of a sudden the A starts to pop into my head more or recovery takes a turn for the worse. I have approached recovery as a all encompassing life changing experience. So just a suggestion to make sure the other parts of your life are complimenting your marriage and recovery, as they should be.

Mike. are you still living in the same house?

Someone asked what was worse a PA or EA.

On the recent flair-up that I wrote about, we discussed sex and the OM. She begged me to know that it wasnt an everyday or every week thing. Small consolation, she knew. I told once is bad but we have a LTA on our hands and Lord knows how many. But, that wasnt the extent of my anger, I reminded her.

In between bjs and her on her back, there was an inordinate amount of alone time where they talked, shopped, ate, and just maintained a lovely emotional affair. THIS, I told her, was just about as hurtful as the sex.

She really didnt see the EA as just that, an affair. I had to remind her that she classified what they had early on as a relationship. A relationship means kissing and holding and looks in the eyes, not just a good ole shtup once in a while.

So I informed her that the sheer length of time they were a couple and not having sex was enormous. And it was this time that, even though it died out at some point, they were hot and heavy forging a bond, an emotionl bond. I let her know this part hurts as much as or more than the sex.

So, I find the 2 states of adultery to be equal.

I read the same thread, didn't comment. I would have said PA, having experienced both. I think they both come with their own set of emotional difficulties, and which is worse than the other depends on the betrayed spouse to some extent.

Mike, could you look in on rrr on the SAA board, especially the most recent posts? I got the deja vu feeling in writing to him that I was writing to you a year ago.

MSS, you are here since 6/2011. I assume your dday is not recent and your WW has answered all your questions about the affair so in my best MelodyLane/Peperband/etc Impression:

STOP TALKING ABOUT THE AFFAIR.

This post seems to be you looking for excuses to find ways to tell WW how much she has hurt you.

As you keep reliving the affair you shall keep on triggering.

Yup. I still have a need to remind her of what she did as counterproductive as i know it will be.

Like the burden she carries isnt enough.

Like something positive will come from it.

Like the affair may suddenly NOT have happened.

Pathetic. I justify it in my head as something SHE created not me so its ok.

It certainly has not happened since a summer business trip but again thats just justifying whats not justifiable.

We ve moved forward.

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.
George Orwell

I cant even fathom what life would be like if my wife didnt show and maintain the highest level of remorse she has since dday.

Reading about some of these guys' year plus of chasing and enduring a spouse who is either still contacting their OMs or out there looking for outside action is chilling.

Should I be considering myself lucky?

I will tell you I dont feel lucky?

Knowing what I know is not luck. Its something else.

I do feel that SHE is lucky. She is lucky Im who I am and as she and her guy said, I wouldnt leave her after getting caught. She is lucky my children's happiness is more important to me than anything. And her luck doesnt stop there. I know many guys who would have taken the opportunity to leave a lousy marriage when the blame would be squarely on their wives.

She's lucky I found this website when I did and I learned my marriage can be better.

MSS,

Just a few random replies to some of your posts... I would say you both are "lucky". She is lucky for having you, a man who has tried so hard to forgive and move forward, but you are lucky too. You now have a woman who is living for her marriage and doing what she should have been all along. I think WS' often are better spouses afterwards, not for having the affair, but because when they repent (truly repent), they are much more aware of failures in more areas of marriage than many who have never experienced infidelity. This awareness often causes them to work harder in more areas, thus making a better, more whole, marriage than many others.

2. She carries this knowledge every day... What she's done. It will never leave her. Reminders, I think often lead to despair for the FWS because they are never sure they've been forgiven. Despair or hopelessness is not not a thing you want your FWW to live with.

3. Forget about looking at all the betrayal all the time and begin looking at the steps you both have made since the betrayal. Log in a notebook if you have to! It will help you see the progress

4. Here's my thoughts on EA's and PA's... I think they are both equally as devastating. Why? because at the heart of both is one common action.... Betrayal.


CV

The Irish Traveler is in the house.

I love you, man. You have made a difference in my life.

Your optimism and glass half full way about you is infectious. I still go back and read your stuff from my darkest hours on my other thread when I need a boost.

I will start to log the sucesses in my notebook. Good idea.

MSS: I think it is safe to say I have had an easier time than you have had, and I can certainly relate to your thoughts about how much more difficult it would be if the infidelity had been worse.

Luck has nothing to do with it. You are a good man dealing with an incredibly difficult loss. Your wife is a good woman who made tragically bad choices. Her remorse is evidence to you where her heart really is. You show where your heart really is by continuing to work on the full recovery of your marriage. Keep with the program, and both of you will be OK.

Happy Birthday, CV! I always look forward to reading your posts.

Wooot Woot! hands in the air! lol. Thanks MSS! I'm glad you are still plugging away at it. For some of us, the recovery road takes a lil bit longer, but it's ok as long as we are still travelling it!

CV