So now that I am back to concentrating on meeting EN's and avoiding LB's, I thought I would give a little update on her behavior. I've noticed that she has pretty much stopped putting things on FB this past week. She has continued to look at music videos including "You don't know what you have till it's gone" and "I want us back" which both could mean either person, though I am sure it's meant to be about him. She continues to be far more nice than not with me, but it's clear she is still generally down on herself, even when nice.

We had a soccer practice for S yesterday and she came with our girl, and we sat together and watched, making a lot of small talk the whole time, a lot of it initiated by her. Then we all went to a place to eat together (only second time since E-Day). That evening she continued to initiate small talk with me. Seems she initiates a lot of small talk now, when she wouldn't a week or so ago. Ever since that Monday that she was de-friended (I know I shouldn't take this as a big deal...but...) she's been different. I'm wondering if that was the moment it all sunk in and she began to believe that her "dream" would never come true. I don't know, as I am still dealing with her fog (her memory really sucks right now - she keeps forgetting all kinds of stuff). I just hope she'll get to a point where she will just stop thinking of the guy.

In the mean time, I will just keep doing what the good Doc said to do, and let the chips fall where they may.

So, a pleasant (or at least non-acrimonious) practice-watching session, chatting; a digestible dinner, without histrionics; a family of four peaceably coexisting....

Now, what did you do today to "anchor" those emotions in her mind (also known as fog-dispersal, dude)? A casual, non-romantic note to her complimenting her on something small (her manner with D, the way she ordered the dessert, whatever) would serve your cause very well.

Sell, sell, sell.....

NOW you tell me!

Does agreeing that getting the tire cover she wants is ok with me count?

See, the advice I want is stuff like what you just mentioned. How to take advantage of good situations to make a point that I am worth being with. I'm not a salesman, so any tips on when to do things like that and what works and what doesn't would help me tremendously.

I keep seeing how this woman, who supposedly can't stand being around me, doesn't actually flee my presence, and keeps asking for permission from me, like being able to go have lunch with her female friend. As time goes by, it appears more and more to me that she still has feelings for me, but they are buried behind her feelings for him. I'm in for long, slow process and everything I can do, without going overboard, to drive home the point that I am worth coming home to, is what I want to accomplish.

Shhhh, here's a secret that must not get out.....

Waywards are selfish, egotistical, selfish, greedy, and oh, yes... selfish.

The way to manage them, therefore is to ply them with what they most immediately respond to - the incipient availability of good feelings and satisfactions about themselves.

If we have a case here in which the BS won back a WS by appealing to the possibility of satisfying the BS's needs, ("Please come back to our marriage because I need you!") or even the needs of the children, I do not recall reading it. The Plan A, done correctly, should have the WS saying, "What the hey? BS is looking good, smelling good, getting fit, attending to domestic/children chores, etc, etc." (All of that is the carrot.) At the same time, WS has heard that the current one-way EN-mart cannot be envisioned as lasting indefinitely. (Hence: the stick!) Assuming AP is a non-factor, the WS would ideally selfishly chose the new-improved BS over.....?

It's really fun watching her enjoy time with me and the kids, or in talking with me, then seeing her come under the realization she's enjoying it, so then turns the smile upside down and finds something very insignificant (even for her) to raise he voice and snap about. I think it is driving her nuts every time we just get along well, since it is contrary to the "not compatible" version of me that she has built up as one of her excuses.

Tonight became a family night and watching her emotions go through these contortions was enlightening. When she lets her defenses down, we just get along great as we always have. After a few minutes of this, though, she invariably raises shields and picks a moment to fire phasers, usually missing the target badly. A few minutes later...shields drop again. Rinse...repeat.

Here's your call.
Radio clip to falconrap's call

That was a great call. Great explanation of the "taker".
He strongly encouraged you to have an attorney.

The advice on being someone worth being around and how to do it was the best part for me. It let me know what side of the argument to go with.

The attorney remark was noted, but,in my state, the courts have been restricted severely to the 50/50 spilt of everything and what can constitute going away from that and why. After reading up having some questions answered, it basically became situation where I don't need one unless she does something really stupid with our finances. So far she hasn't done anything dumb in that regard, but if she does, I can get immediate relief with a filing. I can see how would absolutely need one in a lot of states.

Sitting here thinking about the taker...I think the best way to describe what I am seeing from her is that the giver keeps coming out until the taker starts thinking "what the heck!!" and she says something not so nice and acts a little mad. I think she's having a hard time keeping herself in the taker mode when I keep doing nice things for her and keep potentially hairy situations diffused. I think this all goes back to her admitted comments on our marriage actually being good and that she would have been fine just being with me, all before she met up with the guy and made her "decision."

Make sense?

I would get the atty and protect your finances

You may still want to call the wife and find out why they divorced.

I've thought about this. There could be some negative ramifications to it, but it's something I will hold in my back pocket. As I continue to work on the plan A, I will see if she presents an opportunity for me to find out what he told her about the divorce, unless I find it somewhere in one of the texts or emails they exchanged (might be with her old phone - a BB curve - I will dig through that). There's been a lot of crap stuff to dig through since this was going on 9 months before I knew and I've been focused on watching current communications.

The only problem I have run into is that the one number is tied to her parents. She's as hard to track down as he was.

As to the attorney, I know who I will be retaining if needed. In my state, I can easily file for relief in 24 hours. She has plenty of immediately tappable assets if she does something stupid. Right now she is focused on getting our debt down. We have enough to "trap" her for a year or so, and she knows it. Plenty of time for me to plan A and help nudge her out of the fog, or, at the very least properly prep her for plan B. It's all a out how long I am willing to plan A her. If the results continue to improve, and she keeps meeting a little bit of my EN's during this time, I can probably go a lot longer than I had originally planned. I'm hoping the holidays will be hitting at the right time to really drive the point home.

Well it sounds like you are in for the long haul.
I wish you luck.
I encourage you to keep a journal throughout this time.

Yeah, I've been journaling about it in a couple of notebooks. The one thing that encourages me is that I see the little things she's doing right now and they are NOT indicative of someone who hates their spouse and doesn't want to be around them. I can tell I am having an effect on her. I just hope it ends up being enough in the end. This forum is kind of my second journal, so I plan to keep posting off and on about the things I see and what progress, or regression, I see.

Since last Monday, she's been slowly getting more and more comfortable being around me and doing things with me. I can't hope to win her back until she's at the point where a choice for me seems much better in her eyes, and it all starts with her comfort level with me. I saw one poster on the TAM board who did the same, but ended in plan B. His wife then realised what she was missing and eventually came back home early this year. They are now going very strong since they are both going to counseling and using the right principles. I knew from the get go that I might be looking at a 1 to 2 year "project" here. I'm the type who hates quitting (and quitters) and I am used to working hard over a multi-year period to get what I am looking for (getting capital for a new piece of test equipment was one of my shinning moments and it took 3 years to get that one pulled in with a lot of me arguing and winning over some real idiots).

The long haul it is. Hopefully everyone will keep me and my family in their prayers as I try to overcome this.

I will pray for you.
And please read the bible daily.
Pray for hedges of protection around your wife.

Read the book of Job. And the book of Hosea.

This is a spiritual battle and the "taker" comes to rob, kill and destroy. The bible says that "the prayer of a righteous man is a powerful and effective weapon".

If there is any unrepentant and uncontested sin in your life, get right with God.

Thanks HDW. I use a variation of the hedges prayer on a daily basis. I also ask God to give her guidance in her dreams and to talk to her when she will listen.

Just a little weekend update. This Saturday the S had a soccer game. We went to watch as a family and the time spent seemed to do us good even though figuring out what we wanted for lunch was a laborious task. After lunch we spent time together and just getting along really good. Lots of off the cuff talking and some good joking around. The S also had a party to go to later, which gave us more time together getting some things done and conversing more off and on. Sunday we weren't around each other quite as much, but did have similar conversations and such early in the day, but then we had to get some things done around the house and outside. I could see her pull back a little at night, but then I was able to get her attention to see a video and pics of the game and she came right over with no hesitation and we made some jokes out of what S was doing (first game stuff) and me being one of those sideline coaches. So the night ended on good terms.

Overall, I can continue to see step by step progress. I can just feel her comfort level around me go up. Hopefully it will be enough to bring her back into the fold over the next couple of months. If not, I think I am driving home the point that Plan A is supposed to.

I continue on...

How much UA time are you able to get in?

Probably around 12-16 hours. Still kind of low, and not perfect UA time either, but it appears to be enough to at least be getting her attention and having some impact. She's still not "ready"to reconcile per se, some I'm having to fill her ENs as best as I can. I have become the king of listening the last couple of weeks. When she talks I just stop and give her 100% focus. I this she has really noticed that more than anything and has become much more willing to talk wit me.

I want to get her to the point where she's willing to be with me for a day, no kids, to really build things back up, but she's still clinging to thoughts of the OM at times. Definitely less than before but not there yet. Days by day. I'm going the holidays will accelerate this more.

Good grief. Just got a chance to reread that. Virtual keyboards suck.

I was trying to say that the holidays should make her a little more vulnerable, especially with Thanksgiving and Christmas. We had originally planned to go up to her folks place and spend a week with them. When that week comes around and we are just sitting here not knowing what to do with our selves, I expect it to really hit home. She chose this mess and chose not to go up there after I exposed. Of course, she talked with her parents last night, so maybe she'll eventually come around to going up north for T-Day, as we still have time.