Thats a tough one for sure FE
" A rose bt any other name, still smells as sweet"

Of course, skank stinks to high heaven, but that is skank, because she is a skank

I have allways told my children, and myself first, that I have a name, but it is up to me alone what that name becomes or means. So we make a name for ourselves, and it then defines us, not we are defined by our name.

As time passes, and you all realize our actions speak louder than words, the triggers that names bring will be put behind, as the character shows through and drowns out the negative connotations of the names.

Yeah I will do what it takes to make my name mean something positive and strong, because my actions dictate who I am, not my name

Someday after recovering for a while, the strength of the individual and thier actions will dictate what the name means to you, and it will not trigger like it does, because they will be long gone, in the past, part of a bad mistake long past.
You guys will make the names mean what they mean, not the other way around.

Thank you for that, CP.

I can always count on you to put things in perspective for me. You are correct, of course. DD is a remarkable, beautiful, young lady with a growing faith and a heart of gold. And some where down the line, those are a few of the qualities that will be associated with her name. They will surely overshadow the bad.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Thanks again.

~FE

Your welcome glad I could be of help

So, I was listening to the MB radio program yesterday, and Dr. Harley addressed a woman who was having trouble triggering. I can completely relate to her. I, unfortunately have an extremely good memory for details. Therefore, I can/do trigger daily- easily. I understand what Dr. Harley says about not thinking about the affair and not talking about the affair. However, the caller said that she felt like she would have no outlet if she couldn't express these triggers or the feelings that they brought up. I agree with her. It just feels like it would eventually eat you up inside. Dr Harley did say that one would most certainly NOT go insane from not mentioning it. I'm not suggesting that I would go insane, but I have noticed that I have a lot more stomach troubles. To be honest, WH's affair put so much stress on me physically, that I have a laundry list of health issues that I am dealing with now.

On top of the triggers, which are almost too many to list without sounding like I have OCD, I have lately been troubled with the thought that I don't know if I want to be married to someone who loves someone else, also.

Do they ever stop loving them? What if the OP doesn't drain their love bank account completely? Will the wayward always have a love balance for them? How does one deal with that?

Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

FE,

Is your husband listening to the program?

Markos,

No. He hasn't listened. He has no way to listen at work, and we really don't have time in the evenings to sit in front of the computer to listen. We need to get something that we can download the app on- we are VERY low tech at this house...

Regarding your daughters, Dr. Harley's advice is not to push them, but to let them make up their own minds:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2550

I recommend subscribing to the program archives and buying a cheap MP3 player, and he can listen in his car. You can get an MP3 player for $20-$25.

I think time he spends listening to the program will be time well spent, and it would be worth making time in the evenings for.

I am looking for signs that he is doing the work. I'm not seeing them yet.

Thank you for the link and the recommendation to subscribing to the program and buying an mp3 player. Will an IPOD work? WH has one that I gave him a couple of years ago, but we haven't set it up yet.

As far as him doing the work- He does not take the initiative in anything- ever. He willingly participates in reading, doing the worksheets, and discussing and implementing MB concepts.

Does he ever suggest we do any of the work? No.
Has he looked into ordering any other materials from MB? No.
Do I think he ever will? Honestly, I don't know.
That is one of the reasons that I was surprised that he even wanted to post here. He is not good on a computer and not very good with words, but I think that he feels like he "gets it," so that makes him a pro. Not that I think that he is cocky about it, but I am so thankful that he has you, GloveOil and HerPapaBear to help hold him accountable.

Thank you for that.

YES...the ipod will work. I bought a month subscription. I spent that month downloading TONS of stuff on my computer and moving it over through Itunes to my IPOD. I have gotten it down to about 10 different segments I want him to listen to. You can also burn your playlists from itunes to a cd if it would be easier as well. Just let me know and I'll help you. I am the world's worst at technology, but I can do this!!!

If the reality of the tremendous mistake he has done does not motivate him to take the initiative in this, then I do not hold out much hope here.

If he got really serious about listening to Dr. Harley daily, perhaps Dr. Harley would be able to motivate him.

I am watching to see if reading articles and listening to the radio translates into doing things. What is he doing for recovery, at this point?

Marriage Builders as a program does not usually work well when the wife has to shoulder most of the weight.

FathersEyes,

My FWH didn't take much of the initiative either when it came to MB; mostly at first it was me pulling out the books and questionnaires. He was okay with that, though, and fully is on board with implementing all the principles.

As long as your H is willingly implementing the MB principles, your marriage will be on its way to getting better.

My H didn't post at all. I did ask him to at first, but he was reluctant. He's not into posting much on any forum and wanted what time we had together to directly funnel into building us up. What we needed (and still need) to know comes directly from the materials.

He also doesn't initiate listening to MB radio, but anytime I want to listen together, he willingly does so and then we'll talk about it.

The key point is that you say your H is implementing what he's learning. We signed up for the MB Online Seminar and read through the materials together, aloud, each night. We would read just a couple of pages, sometimes only a page, if it was from LB, because it was so painful. We talked about that one page or so and did the questionnaires together. If I had waited for H, we would likely still be way back, but we did it together, even though I usually was the one to initiate. It was okay, because he was always enthusiastic about doing the program with me and then using it.

As long as your H is implementing, that's what matters...at least, in my own very humble opinion.

Edited to add: OOOPS! I see that this directly conflicts with the opinion of Markos.

So I want to add: The heavy lifting my H did during recovery was in dealing with the damage he had inflicted on me and on our marriage. When the fog lifted, he was very very remorseful and became almost a different man. This "new" man is loving and considerate, gives our marriage the UA time needed, and is compassionate toward me. He treats me with great care now. I am still the one who initiates anything having to do with MB, but since he is always willing and enthusiastic, I am okay with this.

Hope this makes sense.

What is he implementing?

Forgive me my cynicism. I have just seen so many guys come here in the last year and post but not do anything. So the first thing I want to know is, what's changed, and what's he doing? And I want to know from the wife. Are her complaints about the marriage being addressed. Is he taking care to stay away from opposite sex friendships. Is he spending time with her, is he talking to her respectfully?

If he's implementing the program -- then yes, the marriage will do fine, even if she's initiating each lesson.

Markos,

I just listened to that link. WOW. Dr. Harley seems to express every feeling that DD16 has, but has a hard time putting into words. I wonder if I should let her listen to the link. Your thoughts on that? She does not act unkind to him. I would say that she treats him like a "pal." - Not like a friend, so to speak. The difference being that you can share your inner most thoughts and feelings with a friend, but you just kind of "hang out" or "chill" with a "pal."

I will definitely let WH listen to it.

I also thought that it was interesting that they brought up the question of whether or not the DD was biological, because it makes a difference. DD23 is not WH's biological child. He adopted her, though. What difference do you think Dr. Harley is referring to?

My personal thinking is that letting your daughter listen to it would be fine.

I'm afraid I didn't hear them mention the question of if the child is biological or not.

My own personal opinion is that in the end, children are people who have to be free to make their own decisions in life. I will tell you that I have hardly seen my own wayward mother in twenty years! But she did not make an attempt to reconcile. If she had, I think things would have been different.

Alienated children are very often the consequence of infidelity. And the betrayed spouse should not attempt to shield the wayward spouse from the consequences of infidelity. Instead, the former wayward needs to do the hard work of repairing the broken relationships.

Thank you for your response, LWH.

That's exactly where we are. My WH treats me with extreme care and thoughtfulness. He is very loving to me and works hard at trying to make me feel safe in our marriage now. He is a different man than he was before. He has told me that he wants to be and is working on being the husband that I deserve.

Yes, the "heavy lifting" is up to me, but he is all the way on board with doing the work and practicing the principles.

Thank you for the words of encouragement.

When I say heavy lifting, I mean pulling the marriage along with the wayward spouse kind of dragging unwillingly behind. I did initiate MB, but he was always enthusiastic. I had many many very dark days with lots of emotion: anger, sadness, regret, hatred, indecision about whether to stay or go, and that's where he did the heavy lifting.

He held me and comforted me, expressed deep and real sorrow at what he had done, instituted EPs (with a few hiccups along the way, but it's good now) and meets my ENs in a way he had never ever before done, in our entire marriage. And he says he loves doing it, too. So when I feel sadness, which I still do sometimes, I always have to remind myself to look at the man he has become, thanks to implementing MB. We both look at the marriage we have now, and wish, so much we WISH, that we had known all this long ago.

As long as your H is fully on board and implements all the MB requirements, your marriage has hope.

Cynicism forgiven.

What has changed:

He is no longer the selfish man that I was married to. He always considers my feelings.

He has been practicing the rule of care- trying very hard not to cause me anymore unhappiness.

He has been radically honest with me- even though sometimes it hurts to hear. (he's not insensitive, I'm just very sensitive).

He makes certain that we get at least 15hours of UA time together each week.

He brings me on side jobs with him.- His idea.

He brings a mutual friend of ours from our old church with him to work each day for accountability. -His idea, too.

He takes extra precautions not to speak to anyone of the opposite sex, unless it's unavoidable. (i.e. -paying for gas, etc. and then it's only what he has to say.)

He speaks to me respectfully- always.

He calls me throughout the day to check on me and to tell me that he loves me.

We are working on our negotiating skills. That is something that will take practice for both of us.

My issues that haven't been resolved are:

Selling the house- we are getting it ready to put on the market.

Selling the boat- he needs to do some engine repairs before we can list it. He really hasn't had time.

Selling the antique car- he said he would do this- I didn't ask, but after I found out that POSOW had been in it, I want it gone. He now says, she only rode in it once. (I think FIL, who is extremely selfish, is pushing for him to keep it).

Changing jobs- He hasn't looked much for another job. He wants to go out on his own, but winter is not a good time for that. I can help that by taking real estate classes and getting my license. I have no income right now, but need to be able to have a job with flexibility so I can continue to care for DD16 and her medical issues.


To be fair, though, I am an instant gratification kind of gal. If you read my thread, you noticed that when I put my mind to something, I don't mess around.

I knew what you meant. I'm a bit scatter-brained today, so I am probably not expressing myself correctly.

Yes, I am the one to order the materials, but he will say, "are we reading tonight?" Then we read, discuss, do a worksheet or read an article/ watch a video on the website.

He is learning how to do the heavy lifting when I have bad days. By that, I mean that he doesn't always have the words, but he does hug me and offer comfort in many ways.

He does tell me that he realizes how lucky he is that I want to work on our marriage, and that I even still have love for him after everything that he put me through. We are still at the beginning of recovery, but we are moving forward. He did tell me that he wishes he knew of Marriage Builders long ago, too.

Thank you for your input. I will let her listen to it.

You are correct. It is up to WH to repair broken relationships.