Thank you ML. I will listen to these links you posted. I think it depends on how you look at it or maybe the words used to describe it. I am not talking about fake forgiveness. I am also not saying that I would forget. I am definately not saying that forgiveness means that I have to let that person even remain in my life. For me, I believe that for that person not to have any hold or control over me, I want to see them as flawed, forgive them for their horrible choices and move on. This has always worked for me in my life. It is now an issue b/c it is my spouse, covenant, marriage, etc... If I can get the clips to work, I will listen to them and respond. It is great to learn other ways to deal with things.

IMO, there are two levels of forgiveness. The first is where the wronged person releases their anger and bitterness, and gives vengeance into God's hands. When Jesus prayed for forgiveness for His tormentors, He was quite literally asking for God to not hold that sin against them. Basically, "Please don't let their sin stand in the way of You working in their lives and bringing them to repentance." They hadn't yet confessed their sins to receive the type of cleansing which is promised to a believer (1 John 1:9) and yet this level of forgiveness is important or Jesus wouldn't have taken the time while He was dying to establish it.

The second level is two-sided, where there is not only a release of anger by the wronged person, but repentance on the side of the "wronger", and often restoration, as well. The apostle Paul would be a good example of this, where he went in the space of a few minutes from a fire-breathing murderer to a sorrowful, forgiven sinner who was taken in and sheltered by the very people he was trying to destroy. Doubtless many of them had lost friends or family because of his sins, and yet when God told them that it was safe to accept him, they did.

Due to the addiction factor, I can't recommend getting all buddy buddy with an OW, no matter how repentant, but if all other steps are carried out, there will be plenty of time in the perfection of heaven to sort the rest out. Cause you'll both be there.

Thank you all for your input. You all have given me a lot to think about. Sorry if I started a heated debate. That was certainly not my intention.

I have not had the opportunity until now to get on the forum.

There have been a few developments since I have last been on.

First, the POSOW showed up at WH's work last Wednesday. (Yes, he is still at the same job.)She cornered him on a dock between his truck and the boat that he and his partner were working on. The owner of the boat was also there. She asked WH for a minute of his time, but he just walked passed her. She asked him if he had the spare key to her car and the book to her car. He said no. She asked if they could still be friends and talk every once in a while and he said, "No. I hurt a lot of people and I wont do that again." He threatened her with a RO, to which she said, "That's not necessary." He started to walk back to the boat and she asked for a hug. He said no and kept walking. WH told me about this when he got home that night. He was proud of the way he handled the situation. It upset me, but I didn't use any LB's. I just told him that I wished that he would've called me immediately.

Second, my FIL is really trying to undermine our recovery. He complains to WH about how I have too short of a leash on him and that he feels, "victimized." He also tries to discourage WH from changing jobs, selling house and moving away. He complains that he never gets to see him "alone" anymore, even though WH explained that is one of the extraordinary precautions that we have in place. FIL still talks to POSOW for crying out loud!! And lies to me about it.

I emailed the radio program about the FIL situation, and Joyce called me today. I am going to be on the program on Monday.


Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

In yesterday's program Dr Harley said it is sometimes necessary to cut out in laws.
In your father in law in poison to your marriage, do you drink poison?

Regarding the crazy woman, te issue of a restraining order has been brought up in the past. I would pursue it.

I thought she lived far away (or am I wrong)?

She lives about 2 miles from WH's job.

I have no problem cutting out my FIL, but my husband is a different story.

If she lives 2 miles away then you need to move.
Dr Harley stresses this is extremely important.

She lives 2 miles away from WH's job, which is about 35 miles from where we live.

You cannot demand that your H do anything. You can make requests though.

I'd help with this if your H would ever decide to post on his thread and ask, otherwise, the best I can do is suggest you negotiate the most favorable position you can with your H that allows YOU to feel safest.

I'd suggest you continue to complain though, carefully. Reminding your H that it may withdraw some love units when you complain, but it's withdrawing more from your bank knowing that FIL is still willing to talk to OW and is willing to lie about it to you. H needs to know there is still a hole in your love bank, draining it, because of contact with FIL & FIL's thoughtlessness.

Will your H listen to Dr. Harleys show with you when this topic airs?

Just common sense is it not?

Its totally highly personal, and a gift not to be thrown around either

HPB,

Thanks for your reply. I know that I cannot demand this of WH. I appreciate your willingness to help with this. I wish that he would get back on here, too.

I did tell him that I would be on the show, and he thought that was great. He told me that he wanted to hear what Dr. Harley had to say, so I know that he will listen to it.

The thing is, when I talk to FIL, he acts like everything is fine and that we are doing the right things, but when WH talks to him, it's a different story...

You are right! Thanks, once again, for your wisdom, CP.

And ML!

Well, I was on the radio program yesterday. Unfortunately, my husband and I missed the first 15 minutes or so of the program, as we didn't get home until after midnight. I must say that it did not go over very well with WH. We came in around the part where Dr. Harley was talking about divorcing your parents. WH got defensive and told me that he would NOT not talk to his father again. Which makes me feel like he has chosen his father over me... We did have a few tense words about the situation.

We did calm down and talk about it for about an hour. WH said that his father was only doing what he (WH) told him to do. And that basically he was the one who put his father in that position.

I really hope that WH will email Dr. Harley, but I won't hold my breath.

Can anyone post the link to that part of the radio program, so that WH can listen to the whole thing? Or tell me how to do it?

Click on the "listen now" link on the right side. Yesterday's radio program will be replayed until today's program is posted at 2PM Eastern time.

AM

Thank you Armymama. I can listen now, but WH is at work, so is there a way to save it?

No, there is not a way to save it unless you have special software.

If you email the Radio Show they may send it to you?

I heard you on the show and I think you composed yourself well and communicated the situation very clearly.

Dr Harley agreed that your husband comes from a "culture of affairs."

God's wisdom is for a man to leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife. Your husbands father is just toxic; I can relate to toxic inlaws. My wifes alcoholic mother lived with us a third of our marriage. Despite all the damage and how toxic her mother was, she could not kick her out. She placed her sick relationship with her mother above the welfare of her own family.

Thank you Jedi. The Harley's are very easy to talk to.

I will email them and see if I can get a copy.

I will post it to your thread as soon as they post it.

Thank you BrainHurts! I really appreciate it!

Sorry to hear that, Jedi. I guess it is just too difficult for some people to cleave...