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I wouldn't talk to WW. Didn't she cheat on you throughout your entire marriage and is still in contact with POSOM? Is that correct? She has cheated their entire marriage?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I wouldn't talk to WW. Didn't she cheat on you throughout your entire marriage and is still in contact with POSOM? Is that correct? She has cheated their entire marriage? "11 years ago I married my wife...Well I finally figured it out and after lots of problems and tears she finally tells me that she has been doing it off and on with this guy (old boyfriend) for all 11 years." ak, get into Plan B and stop trying to educate your WW. She doesn't care and is now boo hooing you for her life sucking.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
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Oh hell yes! Get thee into plan B. You are dealing with a practiced, seasoned wayward for whom this is a way of life. I did not realize this was her way of life. She is just keeping you around to be her b*tch and doesn't want to hear your complaints.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Well, the first year after I learned of the affair she continued to talk to the guy, and had very poor boundaries with 2 other guys. Eventually she stopped doing that.
The second year she was just bitter and resentful. She couldn't care less about how I felt or what she did that bothered me (such as stopped wearing her wedding ring because she didn't feel like it.) As far as she was concerned I should be supporting her in everything without ever suggesting the possibility that she is anything less than a stellar mom and wife. During this time she signed up for part time work and 4-6 credits of college. When I wanted to spend time with her she would schedule me in for a few hours here and there, but nowhere close to the UA I think we need to recover as the only time left was to sort through typical family scheduling issues or taking care of the kids. If she was against a deadline for a school project she couldn't be bothered for even a few minutes.
I didn't handle this well and complained a lot. I tried to convince her that we needed help and time together to resolve our issues, but ML is helping me see that it was full of DJs. Regardless of what happens, I really need to get a handle on these DJs because that will ruin any relationship.
Now we are in year three and the consequences of the divorce are starting to ring home so now she is starting to see the mess this has caused. So she blames it all on me.
I spent months trying to meet her needs (while she wouldn't meet mine) only to figure out that what she really wants is a cheerleader that will shower her with affection, while she can do whatever she wants.
Now she is trying to suck me in by acting nice (or pitiful), and I'm so frustrated at her blaming everything on me that I'm trying to set boundaries and politely and respectfully tell her that it isn't all me, that we need to work together, and that she can do a lot on her own to change this. She disagrees. If I would treat her different then she could treat me different too. That's what the message was, you treat me well first. That is why I responded with take some responsibility for yourself and don't shift everything onto me.
Occasionally I get a little more terse when she projects on me all of the things she does. For example, she will be all kinds of upset about how I worded something (and bring it up over and over) then in the next sentence tell me she can't talk anymore because she needs to go find something positive in her life. Or she will tell me that she is upset with me and I'll ask why, and then she will tell me it's because I wasn't polite about something while she is rolling her eyes at me. Or she will tell me that I turn everything around on her, but when I bring up an issue she refuses to address it because of something I did.
Every time we speak she blames me for her relationship with DS11, while she does little to maintain contact with him (she is waiting for him to come to her). He is torn, on one hand he wants his mom back (the one that was kind, went to church with us, was patient with him) but at the same time she was so rough with him that he would run to his bed and yell at the top of his lungs "I wish I was dead!", so he doesn't want to be around her. He has never done that at my house or run away, so she figures it's because I brainwashed him against her. He goes to counseling every other week and tells the counselor about his problems with mom. Once while we were both at counseling with him he said that she treated him like crap. I tried to stand up for her and asked him to use different words. He asked, like what, and I said, "I don't feel safe or something like that." She was so upset that I "led the witness" that I've not yet heard the end of it. When she hurts him he tells her he doesn't feel safe and she is all the more mad at me instead of considering her own actions. Perhaps I'm wrong in my choice of words, but I certainly wasn't trying to pit him against her, I just didn't like the words he used, and thought it was disrespectful.
So what I want to get out of this conversation more than anything is how can I not come across as critical but still tell her to stop shifting the blame and responsibility for the divorce, her relationship with her son, her loneliness, and her resentment onto me. Even if this was recoverable (which I agree it isn't), how would I tell her that I need her to be more respectful and not be late or roll her eyes without her getting upset and even nasty.
I'm starting to wonder if she isn't a classic narcissist that needs to be showered with attention and admiration regardless of what she does so that she can feel ok about herself.
On the flip side, I wonder if I'm not the narcissist in how I speak to her and deal with this.
Honestly, it's very confusing, and I'm looking for sense to it all.
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Are you going to enter Plan B?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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I want to. I think I need an IM since there is still a lot of kid scheduling so there must be communication in some way. I rarely talk to her anymore, the above was all txt messages, guess that didn't work.
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Why dont you email Dr. Harley for his advice.
It is free of charge
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Did you read this? It has the IM link and everything you need. Can you get an IM?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Posts: 11,239
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I want to. I think I need an IM since there is still a lot of kid scheduling so there must be communication in some way. I rarely talk to her anymore, the above was all txt messages, guess that didn't work. Check out the Parallel Parenting thread in Notable Posts. I am recently divorced and i am in a modified type of plan B. I do not speak to or see my ex wife. I only communicate by email about child related issues. for child scheduling a lot of people use Google Calendar but there are comapnies that also sell low cost software for this purpose also
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Joined: Nov 2010
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I want to. I think I need an IM since there is still a lot of kid scheduling so there must be communication in some way. I rarely talk to her anymore, the above was all txt messages, guess that didn't work. Check out the Parallel Parenting thread in Notable Posts. I am recently divorced and i am in a modified type of plan B. I do not speak to or see my ex wife. I only communicate by email about child related issues. for child scheduling a lot of people use Google Calendar but there are comapnies that also sell low cost software for this purpose also Jedi, This is attached to the Plan B thread. So is the IM training and sample Plan B letters, it's all there.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 235
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Posts: 235 |
Did you read this? It has the IM link and everything you need. Can you get an IM? Not yet, super busy at work, but will read it today.
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Did you read this? It has the IM link and everything you need. Can you get an IM? Not yet, super busy at work, but will read it today. Ok, let us know if you need any help.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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check out this advice: pdc:
If you'll bear with me giving you a little clinical perspective, it might offer you some direction in your time of personal crisis and grieving.
Depression is the feeling that your losses are irretrievable and catastrophic. People in an acute state of emotion often feel as if they will never be happy again. In some cases the feeling is supported by fact (untreatable cancer, etc.), but in most cases the emotional reaction is based on an illusion. In your case, the illusion is that your wife was what you have needed in life, when the truth was that her totally selfish and radically misguided approach to self-gratification made her your worst nightmare. In reality, the loss is and will be hers not yours. She should be feeling catastrophic loss, not you.
Your wife's irresponsible behavior has been a crushing blow to you, but you can recover if you separate yourself from her as much as possible. Try not to see her, talk to her, or have any pictures of her in the house. I understand how difficult that may be with five children, but just about every time you see her or talk to her, your grieving will return.
If you have not already done so, I suggest you take antidepressant medication until your life settles down. I've suggested antidepressant medication to literally thousands of those like you, and they have experienced amazing results when they have found the right medication and dosage level. It helps take away the illusions that create irrational feeling of hopelessness, and replaces it with realistic optimism. That optimism gives them the motivation to get their lives back on track and getting their lives back on track eliminates the need for medication.
One of the advantages to antidepressant medication is that it helps people make use of opportunities that arrive regularly. Instead of feeling that nothing will work, and then doing nothing, it encourages them to try, and trying helps overcome obstacles.
Forgive me if my approach to your problems sounds insensitive and over-the-top clinical, but I've worked with enough depressed individuals to know that it's foolish to avoid antidepressant medication when the effects are so positive. It works.
If you are already taking anti-depressant medication, remember what I said about the right brand and the right dosage: I've witnessed "amazing results when they have found the right medication and dosage level." You should see those results in about a week, so if you're still depressed after that amount of time, try something different. And whenever taking any psychotropic medication, it should be under the supervision of a qualified clinical therapist. With the tremendous gains made recently in the treatment of emotional conditions, you should not ignore it.
My advice to take effective antidepressant medication is in no way a substitute for the support you have been seeking, and getting, on the forum. The advice and encouragement given to you is also important in recovery. You are in our prayers.
Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
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I looked at the plan B thread and have moved to implement everything possible. I don't have an IM yet because I don't know anyone that will take that on, but I've limited the txt messages to simple yes/no responses to her questions. She has started to get the point and stopped texting.
I'm still paying her bills, but I'm not going to change that until post divorce. I emailed Dr Harley about it and he said that if I have a divorce outcome I'm happy with, and my wife doesn't show any signs of getting better, to try and lay low until after the divorce then terminate all contact with her.
I think that's wise, if I made any sudden moves right now it could really make things worse, and the divorce is really not that far off.
Thanks to everyone for their help. I am going to spend some time reading love busters since I really don't want that in any future relationships, Lord willing.
ak
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I looked at the plan B thread and have moved to implement everything possible. I don't have an IM yet because I don't know anyone that will take that on, but I've limited the txt messages to simple yes/no responses to her questions. She has started to get the point and stopped texting.
I'm still paying her bills, but I'm not going to change that until post divorce. I emailed Dr Harley about it and he said that if I have a divorce outcome I'm happy with, and my wife doesn't show any signs of getting better, to try and lay low until after the divorce then terminate all contact with her.
I think that's wise, if I made any sudden moves right now it could really make things worse, and the divorce is really not that far off.
Thanks to everyone for their help. I am going to spend some time reading love busters since I really don't want that in any future relationships, Lord willing.
ak Did he answer your question on a show? If so what was the date? You don't know anyone who can respond to her through email or text? They would just act like a filter and pass pertinent information for you.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Posts: 11,239
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I would follow the advice and jut get through the divorce.
Then you can cut her off.
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I Honestly don't know anyone that would do it. Dudes don't really want to get involved so the only other person I can think of is our neighbors wife, she did it in the first plan B attempt, but she couldn't really hang with dealing with my wife.
I don't think I'll get an IM until after the divorce since it will probably freak her out and change the custody situation, and because she is the type of person that writes off anyone that doesn't agree with her, so after setting a very firm boundary she quit texting. I'll just lay low, it shouldn't be but another month.
Dr Harley responded to an email.
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That's what I did.
I did plan A until divorce day.
There are good suggestions in Parallel Parenting thread.
I use a modified plan B - limited contact by email only
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