WHs are burnt in their minds.
Logic works no way for them.
They only had each other in mind.

Be there for your DD17, she needs to draw the strength and example from you!

Stay strong, and you'll be much better off!

I know you won't disappoint! *winks*

Great you have support of your DD17, I wish my D10 was older, she has very strong personality ( so me!!!) and I am sure she would have cut the contact with her father if he continued his affair.

Unfortunatelly she is still young, and keeps defending her daddy all the time.
She already told me she wants to have Christmas dinner with daddy, not with me. Really hurt me, but I said ok.
She is worried that daddy doesn't have any place to live and no money. And wants to give him all her savings.....

dduchess - a wayward mind is a strange thing no logic and a lack of rational thought.


Czarne - DD17 was always very close to her father, it took months and alot of unfortunate events before she was able to take a stand. She has accepted the re write and denigration for what it is, but is angry and hurt by his out of character behaviour.

Your DD10 is young and missing her father. She will in time know the truth and make her own decisions.

Decided to post rather than cocoon.

I'm tired of the waiting, stress and the pain. I haven't really been able to grieve my mother's death, this has been overshadowed by legal issues with Isildur and the mortgage arrears.

I'm still waiting court decision re spousal maintenance whilst I watch the mortgage arrears increase and what normally takes a week or two to apply for early release of my superannuation to pay the arrears is nearing two months and still no decision

Waiting for a response from Isildur's lawyer re request for 2 week visit including Christmas Day. I'm really concerned about DS7 spending 2 weeks and being exposed to the unhealthy environment of waywardville and narcisstic PEGI.

It really hurts this will be the first Christmas without my husband, my mother and if Isildur is successful without my DS7. Isildur knows how important family and Christmas is to me.

I know he is a selfish hardened wayward but it doesn't lessen the pain that he could be so cruel. I know he can't show any care or he would have to face his actions. The cognitive accepts this but the heart has a harder time dealing with it.

It sucks whilst he enjoys waywardville I am dealing with the consequences. Standing for our family and finacial security will possibly feed the A as they bond over how obstructive and and terrible I am.

I want to address something you wrote.
Regarding him "enjoying waywardville"

We can't really judge how other people act.
We can only control our own actions and how we choose to respond to the actions of others.
My (now ex) wife left us for another man.
To some, she may seem to be enjoying her decisions. But to others she seems to be living in unhealthy chaos.

Every single night, my 6 year old has a crying episode "I miss mommy"
Her mom, and your (soon to be ex) husband may even think they are enjoying themselves but the TRUTH is that they are living in sin.
And sin is a terrible burden to carry.
Jesus said that His load was light and easy to carry compared to how heavy the burden of sin is.

I encourage you to just keep plugging along.
Have a good support system to run ideas off of and just remember that you can't control the actions of others. You can only control how you respond to them.

I'm sorry that you have to go through divorce and your mothers death.
My dad told me that holidays are never the same after a parent passes away.

Happy, I have to say, it gets better!!! I had to go through infidelity in my first marriage and my kids were so little (dd2 wasn't even born when he left). Having to lose holidays with my kids...it was tough. But we reframed it. Santa is accommodating and comes early for us we have such a great time together. Last night we played a little super Mario before bed, the three kids and I, and they don't feel the lack anymore really because their lives are so full and good. The more positive you can be heading into the holidays (especially if you have to send ds7 to his dad) the better. So...what are you doing these days to plan A yourself? I can't recall...do you have a counselor? What new traditions can you set up with the kids, even if it's as simple as making cookies or wreaths? If you had Christmas stockings with one for your WH, maybe get new ones?

You are strong enough to make it through this...look how far you've already come! But give yourself safe times to grieve as well..acknowledge and embrace those feelings. It's a tough balance but becomes easier over time.

You could buy them candy and have them surprise each other with crackers (toilet paper tubes wrapped up, it's how I make crackers).

Or you could help each of them bake, or cook something, according to their skill level/age. (IE the 5 year old you probably wouldn't trust with a mixer)

What do you do with the toilet paper roll?

JK - I believe they are living in an unhealthy relationship. I read a post on another thread about how AP present a happy relationship to everyone but often behind closed doors they are not.

PEGI is controlling and Isildur seems prepared to let her control and make all the decisions to maintain the A. He has sacrificed so much. His beliefs even re parenting have changed. She is a parenting expert she has 4 cats

It just seems with all their spending and holidays they are enjoying waywardville while I do everything and bear the stress to protect our family's financial security.

I know I can't control his actions, I haven't even been able to stop his defaulting on our mortgage. I believe I have maintained my integrity and have acted in the best interests of our family. It's just the battle is starting to wear me down and it's painful accepting we are in this position because of Isildur's actions. I still love my H and value the marriage and family we had, Isildur is unrecognisable from the man he was. It hurts to know whilst I have struggled financially (because of his actions) he and PEGI holidayed in Noumea.

I understand the focus of Plan B is healing and not holding out hope for reconciliation, but I am still standing for my marriage and family. I am mindful that when the A ends this may not be possible. Fortunately I do not have to deal with divorce at this stage so soon after my mother's death. Our laws require a 2 yr separation before a dissolution can be filed.

Jen - thanks for sharing your experience/thoughts. For me the intial weekend visits were tough, so Christmas Day is a struggle. Pre A weekends and holidays wer always family time. Even harder was knowing my children were exposed to PEGI. Never in their lives had they spent time with someone I didn't know let alone being exposed to the negatives of an A. and OW.

I thought Christmas Day would be a shared event, where we both spent time some part of the day with the children so neither the children nor ourselves would miss out. I certainly didn't expect after no contact for 5 months he would want the entire Christmas New Year holiday. The sad thing is DS7 doesn't want to go and I resent that PEGI may celebrate Christmas Day with my children.

I know I have to be positive particularly for the children and reframing the day/holidays sounds like a good idea. We have been thinking about a new tradition possibly something crafty.

Not really and Plan A for me at the moment all my energies has been the SM hearing and resolving the mortgage arrears. I have been seeing an IC, which helps given I have do not live near my support network of family and close friends. I do have a some lovely new friends since relocating (pre A).

Karmarose - thanks the crackers idea sounds great, my youngest would love that.

You wrap the toilet paper roll with wrapping paper, then twist and tape one end together. You fill with candy and then wrap and tape together the other end. Instant cracker.

Apart from wanting to spend Christmas Day with our children, my real concern is DS7's exposure to PEGI particularly if he spends 2 weeks there. I've discussed this with my IC and PEGI's behaviour is forming a pattern and fits with being a Narcissist.

Months ago I read an article on narcissistic OW - they seek to replace BW who is seen as a rival and their actions are deliberate and malicious. They want the positive lifestyle attributes of the BW and will destroy the BW. If you tarnish their reputation they will persecute you without mercy and attempt to gain power over you as punishment.

PEGI has fueled Isildur's anger towards me, poisoned him against me, used our children to drive a wedge all to ensure he didn't return home. She has managed to change his perception of me, anything positive I have done she has turned into a negative. Isildur's waywardness has enabled him to willingly accept her manipulation. Isildur told our children that he was scared to give me an address b/c I would spray paint the house

Her behaviour and conversations the children have disclosed validate this. It worries me that she cannot see the negative impact this has on our children. A narissist has no boundaries or empathy.

DS7 has returned from past visits saddened b/c they have said "mean things" about me. PEGI even told DS7 he was not to visit my mother! A couple of nights ago DS7 (out of the blue) commented that "PEGI is mean but she made out that she was nice. She has made dad think you don't love him b/c she has said mean thing about you"

DS7 doesn't want overnight visits, he feels there is no one to make him feel safe at night if he becomes scared. He wants me to go for sleepovers b/c I always make him feel safe if he is scared. DS7 has said dad treats him like a teenager and only gives him a hug when he first sees him. This is PEGI's parenting expertise (she has 4 cats)she thinks he needs toughening up. DS7 doesn't need toughening. PEGI has changed Isildur's parenting views, he accepts her views.

I'm concerned about DS7 being exposed to waywardville given Isildur's wayward behaviour, PEGI's influence and her behaviour. Neither can see the damage this has caused.

There is no precedent in our laws to prevent OW having contact with our children, even though experts recognise the negatives. There has to be a physical risk to the child's safety.

My lawyer has sent a letter advising that counselling should be undertaken to determine why DS7 doesn't want to visit. If this should go to court DS7 will have his own lawyer, so hopefully DS7 wishes will be taken into account.

When will you know if he is granted the Christmas visit?

If Isildur decides to pursue 2 week visit I expect to hear next week, his lawyer finishes on 14.12.12. He did ring DS7 2 nights ago and asked if he would like to visit before and after Christmas, DS7 told him he was not sure.

JK - toilet paper rolls are used as the central part of the cracker.

You guys just gave me a new craft project I can do with the kids.......all about making new traditions.

Isn't it great!

DS7 and I were talking about new traditions/things we could do to make Christmas special and he would like to make decorations.

Reminded me of one year we left it too late to get a tree from the Christmas Tree Farm. We cut a branch of a large pine tree in the yard. It looked very sad in our family room, too sad for decorations, so the kids and I made decorations.

It kind of snowballed as we made table decorations and printed calico with Christmas decorations to wrap the presents. We even made a Christmas pinata. It turned out to be one of the best Christmases and our sad little branch became a beautiful Christmas Tree.

A timely reminder - this will be a different Christmas for our family ... missing loved ones and not the usual available finances, but we can still make it a special time.

That sounds wonderful Happy........new traditions......it can be mind boggling trying to figure out what to do.

I had found some sale priced Christmas stocking and some glitter glue. We made our own decorated Christmas stockings. The kids look at them everyday, they are so proud. It makes my heart smile.

I have been needing to find some whole cloves, so we can make some orange ornaments.....sticking the cloves into the orange and wrapping it with a ribbon to hange on the tree. The cloves preserve the orange and smells awesome. I remember doing that as a child.

Kids have requested making gingerbread cookies.....next on the list as well.

LR DS7 and I decorated the Christmas Tree yesterday and went to the Santa Parade in our city. We hung some of my mother's decorations on the tree, so she will be a part of Christmas. This seemed to help DS7 as he has been missing her and was really sad this will be the first Christmas without her.

We decided to make a new wreath instead of the one we always hung on our front door. DS7 thinks this is a great idea as everyone will know we are celebrating Christmas. He likes the idea of making new traditions and keeping some of the old.

Finally received a response re DS7 visitation. Isildur has done a turnaround from his initial demand and threat to file proceedings if it wasn't resolved. His lawyer expressed he would like to see DS7 particularly on Xmas Day but realises this may not be possible. He would like to see him and wants to know what my conditions are.

This turnaround has thrown me. I don't know whether he is missing the relationship with his children and starting to feel the consequences of the damage he has done to that relationship or whether there is a wayward agenda. Maybe it is the fear that counselling would determine the reason DS7 doesn't want to visit and Isildur would have to face the A and consequences he has been denying.

Sounds good, lay out conditions and plan for a nice Christmas with your kids!

Can you put something like "not expose DS to any new romantic partners"?

Jen it is good they have asked for my conditions, whether he agrees is another story. We are requesting that there be no contact with PEGI ... hopefully he will agree as I can't enforce this legally.

I should be happy but the turnaround from the legal letter 2 weeks ago has thrown me. To go from threatening to file proceedings if it is not resolved (agree to his demand) to asking what my conditions are has made me sad and uneasy. Its sad some one I trusted and had faith in as a husband and father I know question his motives. Maybe I am reading too much into it but I want to keep my guard up.

As I posted I don't know whether the consequences and damage he has caused to his relationship with our children is sinking in or he is missing them. Maybe he didn't want DS7 to go to counselling to determine why he didn't want to visit ... this would then force him to face his actions.