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Livingwell I stopped when things went to normal for 3 or 4 days. It was not a conscious decision. I continue to ask him without asking again the next day, what he was discussing on the phone and its clear he's not telling everything. If he refuses to respond to my negotiation, is the only way to go is end the relation? Yesterday he said it doesn't matter to him what I do if I don't talk to him or not.
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Please read up on the use of POJA on this site. It is not about asking, it is about negotiating decisions within the marriage.
You need to demonstrate it working in a way that is attractive for him.
Rather than say 'either POJA or I leave', sell him on what this will do to benefit him. For instance, think of independent decisions you take now that do not involve him and which could be negotiated What about your free time? That way you can show him how positive POJA would be for him. We are all reluctant to negotiate away our independence but this is a great way to demonstrate commitment so that he can see how using the POJA would benefit the relationship.
3 adult children Divorced - he was a serial adulterer Now remarried, thank you MB (formerly lied_to_again)
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There's not a lot of time spent talking. I can be talking to the wall while he keeps the tv on, the minute he gets inside the house. He will ask if I will go to see out w his family after I have tried to negotiate what I want and gotten a no. By then I am already resenting.
Last edited by Wearld; 01/06/13 04:24 AM.
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There's not a lot of time spent talking. I can be talking to the wall while he keeps the tv on, the minute he gets inside the house. He will ask if I will go to see out w his family after I have tried to negotiate what I want and gotten a no. By then I am already resenting. Can you afford MB coaching?
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I agree with Brainy, coaching would be the cheapest and best way to deal with this. I don't see either of you using POJA properly. It is not a way to get what you want, it is used to find a solution to a problem that makes you both happy. He does not trust it for now and is afraid that he might have to agree to something that does not work for him so is avoiding any discussion at all, understandable.
And the television itself should be the subject of a POJA at some point when you are a veteran user of it. I cannot imagine anything more frustrating than having to compete with a television for someone's attention. Personally I don't own one which is simple but I know that solution does not work for everyone.
3 adult children Divorced - he was a serial adulterer Now remarried, thank you MB (formerly lied_to_again)
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Coaching is about 200$ right? Will he have to be part of it?
I appreciate your advice in this time. How do I create the trust. Is this a case of when the bank is empty.
Last edited by Wearld; 01/06/13 12:37 PM.
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You will be coached separately, first one then the other on the telephone. There will be worksheets for you to fill in and homework to do together. You can save time and money by reading the books, listening to the shows and reading on this site so that you are familiar with the concepts before you start. Even reading other threads on the forum where problems are similar to yours will be a huge help to you.
The coaching will help you learn how to stop bank withdrawals (lovebusters) and then how to build romantic love by meeting each others emotional needs. The use of things like POJA will be covered. You will have to be patient, it takes several months to change habits which is what you will be doing.
3 adult children Divorced - he was a serial adulterer Now remarried, thank you MB (formerly lied_to_again)
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I will consider coaching. Why do people not discuss when it's the only way to solve problems? In order to stop bank withdrawals, should I be forgetting my resentment when requested something by him.
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People don't negotiate because they have not learned how to do this in a safe way. With my XH, he would just keep on and on until I gave in, it was like being at the dentist. Negotiation is a skill you have to learn. Be patient, you can get there. Two heads are better than one and an effective POJA is a fabulous thing.
In the meantime, if you try to negotiate something and he goes ahead and does what he wants anyway, tell him 'I feel unloved when you do that'. Then move on to another subject. Of course you are resentful and POJA is the lifeblood of marriage but new habits are not learned in a day.
Last edited by living_well; 01/06/13 04:37 PM.
3 adult children Divorced - he was a serial adulterer Now remarried, thank you MB (formerly lied_to_again)
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Livingwell I will continue with Poja as u suggested. I am not clear though, if I drop my resenrment, I am adding to the bank but not encouraging him to change right?
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POJA does not cause resentment. If you are feeling resentment, you are not doing it right. With POJA you identify a problem, then you both suggest ways to solve it. As you do this, you look for solutions that will make you both happy.
Here is an example; You have inherited a little money from your mother. He wants to use it to buy a new car, you want to keep it as a safety buffer for unexpected expenses.
So now you start looking for solutions and as you work through the options it becomes clear that he is concerned that the old car is going to need expensive repairs. So you negotiate (always in a calm and friendly way) and you eventually settle on a solution which is to buy a newer used car with half of the money and keep the other half for emergencies.
So there is a solution that the two of you have come up with that causes no resentment and which in any case is a better solution than either of you had originally thought of so a win, win, win.
POJA takes practice. It is not something we learn in childhood (lol) so start with tiny things and work up to bigger ones as you are successful. He will soon get the idea. Start with negotiating whether you have fish or chicken for dinner.
3 adult children Divorced - he was a serial adulterer Now remarried, thank you MB (formerly lied_to_again)
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So I'll have to learn with him. But in this case if the trust is lost and he may think he'll end up agreeing to what he doesn't want, he won't be willing to negotiate. Sounds like not everything can be Pojaed unless the bank has a balance. I appreciate your advice. To use Poja on the example where he refused to share something that happened, all negotiation had gone down the drain.
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Is it true true that not every negotiation can be Pojaed? We r now not talking as the expectation is that I should start first.
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If I'm piecing this together correctly, he wasn't open and honest about something and what you describe makes it sound like he's in a state of withdrawal. Have you read the basic concepts?
xFWW(me)-48 Married-14 years D-Day~23-May-11 NC- 14-Apr-11 1 DS 15 Online course July '11 to July '12 17 sessions with S. Harley Feb '12 to Sep '12 Divorced Jan 21, 2013
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Is it true true that not every negotiation can be Pojaed? We r now not talking as the expectation is that I should start first. Every negotiation can be POJAed but this technique cannot be just thrown into a dysfunctional non MB relationship, it will not work. It requires a great deal of trust on both sides; trust that you are both being open and honest in the negotiation (rather than manipulative) and trust that you will stick to what you have agreed to do. Clearly if you are not talking, you cannot use the POJA. Can you tell us why you are not talking?
3 adult children Divorced - he was a serial adulterer Now remarried, thank you MB (formerly lied_to_again)
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Can you give us some specific examples of things you have tried to POJA?
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I've read basic concept and will read again. We had family dinner, a week and half ago at our place with his family and mine and after everyone left he was on his computer was not making conversation. I don't know wt he expected from me, I did not feel appreciated at all.
2 days ago again after dinner at my parents with his family, we came home, he didn't have anything to say so I went to sleep. I would like to break this cycle. In the past I have to ask. This time since there already was an argument where my request was not happenning I didn't. Going to read more, please help me fix this. I don't how long it will take without me giving in.
Last edited by Wearld; 01/09/13 05:35 PM.
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FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I understand how he was in withdrawal, although not sure of the reason. I was not well when he started his lecturing and rambling that I don't take care of myself. Is there a term for this?
Does criticism have any part in MB? I am guessing no, because as soon as the bank has good balance, the giver gives.
Last edited by Wearld; 01/10/13 08:16 PM.
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Criticism does not have a place in MB but complaints are essential! Dr Harley tells us that we must complain to our spouses. So if your H feels you are not taking care of your appearance, he should say so. Your H might say "I would love it if you would spend a little money on some new clothes because I enjoy seeing you looking pretty".
It is important that we communicate in this way with one another about everything. Otherwise resentment builds up and that way lies poison and ultimately the death of romance.
Lecturing on the other hand is a lovebuster because then we are trying to 'educate' our spouse and we have no business doing that. So if you find his complaint becomes a lecture, tell him. Say 'ouch I felt lectured there, please try to express your complaint in a way that feels ok for me to hear'.
How much time have you spent reading the books and trawling this site. You cannot cherry pick this programme.
3 adult children Divorced - he was a serial adulterer Now remarried, thank you MB (formerly lied_to_again)
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