Thanks HPB. This dinner was not the same dojo where my husband had the EA. He quit that dojo 3 years ago when I asked him to. He went thru withdrawal and remained in contact back then to the woman at this other dojo. He claimed she needed his encouragement so he'd email her. Eventually no contact was established. At any rate for the most part this dinner was the teenagers. I believe that since my husband is an adult and he is an a married adult I should attend with him. Yes, we could pay the cost of my meal. I see this as the type of exclusion that are not appropriate for us.

I am upset today. I'd sent the list to my husband in an email about the lifestyle I expect going forward. UA time, EP around exercise, eliminate IB, cont MB lessons, and work w/SH.

My husband made no comment yesterday to me about this email. Went home and got ready to attend karate. As usual I had to bring it up. He asked if I was going. I asked if he read my email and he said he had and basically said we'd work things out later. Of course I said later does not seem to be happening. ie 3 years of "sure" or "we'll talk abut it later." I feel unsafe to continue without these precautions and MB program ongoing and as a priority over karate. He said he is sick of MB right now and left to attend karate without me. He did claim the things I am asking are not easy for him. He wants to be able to do his own thing sometimes and does not care if its at my expense.

I feel angry with him. I am not having outbursts. More disappointed and heart broken. I want to take flight and leave this.

In other words....

"I'm sick of being asked to be accountable"

Sums it up!

Your H is either having an affair with someone else or he's having an affair with himself?? He may have ended the EA but he's still having an A with himself....

He doesn't seem to care about or protect the marriage....

From my vantage point, it appears you're treated like the family pet that gets some great leftovers, but they are still, leftovers... (sorry)

You deserve a great marriage.... I hope your H recognizes this someday soon.

That is what he is saying. I even mentioned to him when he returned those very words. He wants my support but does not want to be accountable or reciprocol. Therefore he wants our relationship to be more parent/child oriented. I am forced to confront the problems. I am receiving his projections.

Yes, the affair is with himself. The pet analogy sounds about right. I have to stay in my place.

When he said he was sick of MB I said too bad because its now a part of who I am.

My husband recognizes I deserve a great marriage. Then he navel gazes and says he does not have what it takes to meet my needs as though I am impossible and asking too much of him. He'll even mention I should find someone else. And really its supposedly my fault anyway for asking for reciprocity. Just like it was my own fault I did not get to the dojo last night and he did. I just did not want to stay stuck in this ambivalance anymore. He is very gracious and helpful but when asked about eliminating IB for example, you'd think I just dropped an atom bomb and ruined everything.

As Dr Harley says, you can't make someone care for you. I am honestly not able to figure out the best way our of this box. I want a great marriage but I'm more and more lost. All my efforts get me know where expect for my own growth. But I do not want an independent lifestyle. I want an interdependent lifestyle. Please pray for us I know God can make the impossible possible. Then again God may have other plans.

Grace,

You know what you need to do. Even though you have begged him to change, your H's neglect and indifference has been going on unchanged for years. The MB advice will not change. Separate and go into Plan B.


AM

Hi Armymama,
Thanks. Yes, I am pressing hard these days in order to know for myself if I need to make this major shift in short order. I have come here to have support now and if I need to operate in a plan B.

MB is part of me and I will not settle. We have accounted for our UA time this entire week including lesson. My husband is to call SH today and set up appointments ongoing. He's made a couple decisions lately that have caused a double take in a major good way. Of course I will not buy into this seeming transformation until things really do happen habitually. If he is going to continue to waffle I recognize I'll need to form my own positive living space and conditions.

Grace,

It seems as if your husband does "just enough" at "just the right time" to get you off his back. You're absolutely right not to buy in until things do happen habitually. Actions speak loudest.

Regarding Plan B, I discovered that once I was unafraid of my future life, of what H would do, I became free. And once that happened, my H really stepped it up.

AM

I'd say your 'just enough' assessment is accurate. I find myself less fearful and even get the sense my husband understands this at some level but still being testy.

Thank you for touch stone.

I have positive news to report here. I would even go so far as to say its the first authentically positive news I've been able to report to this forum/site.

Its as though the foggy rationalizations I've lived with have lifted or have begun to lift. I have spent a lot of time reading and rereading Dr Harley's books, reading and rereading feedback to my questions here in the private forum, reading +++ articles here, listening to MB radio, listening to the tapes in my car, and lots and lots of reading of the many many of the threads on this site, and more. I've appreciated the direct feedback and non direct feedback on this forums' threads. The collective wisdom and foolishness.

This past weekend my husband joined me. He's on board. He's ready to proceed. He's ready to follow the plan. We made a UA plan that seems possible to uphold. And we're doing it. He's initiating. I'm amazed by this turn. Of course I am cautious and readily able to provide straightforward complaints if necessary.

We celebrate our 33 rd wedding anniversary this weekend!

This is great news. If both of you keep this going, then you will be in love with each other again AND have a safe marriage.


Congratulations! Happy Anniversary!

Happy Anniversary. Have a great weekend celebrating 33 years together.

AM

Thanks for sharing your good news.

And, Have a Wonderful Anniversary!

Happy Anniversary!

Thank you for your heartfelt good wishes.

We had a lovely weekend. The plan was to leave Fri afternoon but patient schedule complications arose and we got started a bit late. I did'nt like that or the dilemma of potentially getting into a complaining mode and if not careful souring the weekend. Fortunately, my husband graciously apologized and it turned out the timing prevented us from dealing with traffic congestion and we got to the B&B before the hostess left. The weather was beautiful and the hostess called a nearby pet friendly and elegant french restaurant and we had a really nice late eve dinner w/our pup.

The following AM we set out before breakfast and walked/ran the beach w/our pup. We had breakfast at the B&B and it turned out there was a small seminar for runners going on about how to get started etc. So there was this celebrity runner expert in an area my husband had just started to explore and he was really excited since this is a new RA we had planned to try together. In the end he gave us a few pointers and it was inspiring! Already we were accumulating so many serendipity experiences.

As we were getting ready to walk around this resort town (Carmel) we received a call from the front desk announcing a couple really cute little visitors. Yeah! Its was our son and his little family including our 2 year old and 4 month old grandchildren! They had happened to be in town and just getting ready to leave. I had mentioned we be going to our son but it had sounded like they were leaving before we arrived. We ended up walking around with them until they left and then we had lunch. But before we had lunch we stopped at the jewelers where we had purchased a ring years ago. We wanted a cleaning and a ring check up. Right away i noticed a necklace I'd admired a couple years ago was still in the shop. I tried it on and my husband liked it too. Right away he said he wanted to get it for me. But I thought we should think about it over lunch. So thats what we did. Then we headed back and purchased it! Its awesome and I really felt like a queen! We attended the wine and cheese hour at our B&B and had a nice talk w/the runners and others. And we ended up going back to the little pet friendly restaurant we had eaten the night before. The service and food was great and our pup got to go again as we could not leave her in the room alone. This B&B was not fancy but had everything you needed especially a thoughtful manner in how they cared for guests.

Yesterday AM we did a run walk about 3 miles along the beach road and beach which was really fun. At one point we stopped at a beachy outlook and practiced a particular karate kata I'm am readying for a upcoming promotion. I really appreciated my husband was not overbearing dominating the experience with his higher physicality and said he was enjoying being beside me and going at my pace! That's a huge change. On the return trip yesterday wee listened to a HNHN lesson CD.

I'm writing this today because I want to stay on track towards our goal of being deeply in love again. It seems each day we have to do something ie UA time to move towards the goal. I know there are many circumstances and outside stuff that seems to undermine. For example, we received a text from our 32 year old daughter Sat eve and whom has just moved out for the third time in her adulthood. We are determined not to allow our adult children to come back at this point. She was upset I'd boxed up her remainder belongings for here to pick up. She had found them when she dropped by while we were away this weekend. Now she claims we are making her not feel welcome! The truth is I am ready to fix our home up to meet our needs at the point we are at now! But unfortunately she is taking our marriage focus personally and is using SD and DJ.

Otherwise we had a perfectly wonderful weekend.

Thanks again for your support!

Today I am disappointed in our recovery. I got home last night and my husband was sitting in a chair and did not look up from what he was reading. But shortly we started small talk. After such a nice week and a few days of personally listening to the Affection and SF lesson I was feeling 'safe' to bring up when we'd schedule to work on affection lesson. I popped in a suggestion for Sat AM. But my husband started to whine and he started to list the activities he's like to do. This lead to a negative spiral. Then he started to complain about me and how he was sick of this. I suggested it was himself that started out w/a negative bent. It would have been just as easy for him to say " ya know I really want to work on that lesson, I know its important, but Sat AM is not the greatest timing but how about XYZ." But w/out this balance he diminishes my request for what appears to be IB. I'm not trying to make a selfish demand for this lesson. This is an important lesson to me.

Its a tango. Just when we start to get close and I want to go deeper I'm walled off. I'd like to smooth this out. I really believe my husband needs coaching help while we head thru lessons and make adjustments. Yes, I told him I felt this was the case. I've heard Dr Harley say if your efforts do not seem to be working and your spouse complains and you can't take feedback to get coaching to keep momentum.

The only thing I can read into here is; don't engage in arguments.

Don't.

Just. Don't.


Rather than "suggesting it was himself that started out w/a negative bent" simply state "this conversation is no longer safe, we can pick it up at another time, what time shall we go walk/run tonight?"

You responded with a DJ, there.

If you want to stop the crazy cycle, you have to make the decision to not participate.


"This conversation is no longer safe, what would you like for dinner tonight?"


When you make a requeste or complaint, and he reacts negatively, joining in to the negativity doesn't help.


Really concentrate on the UA time. Pleasant, mutually enjoyable UA time. Leave the lessons on the table.

You are disappointed in your recovery because you are running a marathon, and you keep pushing for a sprinter's pace.

To smooth it out; S-L-O-W D-O-W-N.


UA time. Pleasant companionship.

HHH,
I really appreciate your comments. This really helps me put some perspective on the situation. It can be so much easier to see the issues when its not your intimate relationship. And it came at the right time.