You badly need some Plan A coaching on standing proud, as someone to respect. It's easy to buckle and change who you are under the weight of betrayal, but you simply can't allow that to happen to you.



Stop this immediately.



"Tell me all about it"

"Tell me what would make you happier"

"Tell me how you picture our future together"

- This is exactly what she should have done in the first place. Brought her complaints to you instead of to an OM. Listen with great interest. But if she tries to use it to make you feel
guilty or apologetic or enabling - nip it in the bud.

Stock responses which may come in handy are:

"NC is non negotiable"

"I need you to show much greater commitment to our marriage than that"

"The marriage comes first"

"Nevertheless, that is my position" (then leave the room)

To accusations of 'controlling'

Reply - "It is impossible to control another human being. Therefore you must end your affair willingly and enthusiastically."

To accusations of 'unsympathetic'

"I am sympathetic to the goal of restoring this marriage. That comes first"

To threats of divorce

"I do not talk divorce, I only talk marriage"

In addition to indie's excellent responses brush up on your plan A.

Pepperband has some great ones also in here.
Carrot and Stick of Plan A

So what? The drunk is mad about all this talk of getting sober? So what?

She is still in the A, of course she doesn't want to talk about it! Lying is very hard work!

Expect hostility and anger. Can you whistle unconcernedly and potter about the room when she is like this? Put on a good poker face. And her rambling really does not matter any more than if she was drunk. It really doesn't.



In my case, he got sloppy because he had too much to drink to deal with the guilt and he had left the texts on the phone for me to read. So anything can happen.

Downloading spyware should only take about 15 mins. Practice on your phone so you can do it quickly if need be.

If her phone is security tight then you may have to consider other options.

Something other BSs have done is dropped a chair/bottle of beer on the offending phone - whoopsie! Then presented a brand new spanking phone to their WS, already preinstalled with spyware.

Thanks, that will come in handy.

Now a question about Facebook that's really been bothering me. And it's a serious question.

She gave me her facebook and email details. Should I check them?

Wait, wait.

I checked her gmail before, and she was able to see that I had checked. She yelled about having no privacy, that there was nothing to see etc. etc. On one hand, I don't think there's anything to find there because she's more careful than that. On the other hand, if I do check, it's bound to be a fight later, and I don't know if this is the best use of our energies at the moment.

Alternatively, if I don't check and she sees that I'm not looking, will this mean that I don't care? I'm too tired for these charades.

Yes it is uncaring to not check and it is enabling to allow her a secretive life.

I think you know that there is nothing 'private' on these accounts she has given you the passwords to. It is just charades, as you say. A gaslighting attempt to appear transparent and also a way of yelling at you if you dare do what she invited you to do.

I wouldn't worry about these accounts right now. Keep snooping in more promising directions. You can show her that you wont enable and that you care with the evidence you collect. By being very unapologetic.

However I would make a check of these accounts after you have some evidence but before confronting her just to double check.

Dude, I begin to wonder why you are (and remain) here. You have consistently told everyone investing THEIR time in YOUR well-being that you know better, that the MB Program will not work in your case, and that you will proceed in the husbandly manner that obviously has not proven to work all that well to date.

But let's try one more time, shall we? It seems this conference will be a litmus-test of how your efforts will play out.

Demands don't work with her. If I demand that she not go, I believe that she would actually go out of her way to attend...

So to paraphrase, the conversation would go as follows:

He: Wife, I know that your sex-partner will be at the conference, and your seeing him there will deliver yet another blow to the already slim chances of our marital recovery.

She: [censored] you, I'm going!

Our problem, then, is to get you past her cogent, well-reasoned arguments.

Have you read the Exposure link at the bottom of Mel's note? Do you understand that your WW's precious career is already forfeit? Have you absorbed that the next move SHOULD BE to expose to her entire place of employment, her supervisors, her corporate HR folks, and probably the same cast of characters at POSOM's company, that these two skanks used their professional relationship to arrange to dance the horizontal cha-cha? So save yourself a spit-load of confrontation with the WW who has you so cowed - perform the exposure BEFORE the conference! With any luck the HR folks will have the self-preservational (read: litigation-averse) sense to block her attendence.

Oh absolutely that should be part of the plan.

You can say "I am sorry your affair is hurting you career" more than once you know. I would recommend broken-record repetition.

NG,

I thought I would have more information by now, but she's very good at covering her tracks, and as I mentioned before, she has completely stopped using the home computer and is always attached to her phone.

Yes, I need to be firm about the conference, but want to be able to present some evidence when I do.

Yes, I've read all the stuff about exposure, and it sounds great, but I can't prove that anything is still going on at this time.

What I really need to blow this wide open is access to her phone and work computer.

List the evidence you have here. Did she not already confess?

Yes, she confessed, but also said that the affair was over by the time I found out (was told by OMW). Says nothing is going on now.

Not much evidence as I can't get at her phone. But she's totally secretive.

A PI is a good option, but I can't afford long term surveillance. I figure I could swing the 2 days of the conference though, but I'm planning on stopping that from happening. Was thinking of speaking to WW's mother, who knows and is not pleased with her daughter's behavior. Maybe she can also put pressure about the conference.

Get the PI working Wednesday.

As far as the support you're considering.....Dude, the obvious underlying issue between you and WW is that she has minimal respect for you as an equal partner in your marriage. "Telling Mommy on her" (about the conference, not the already-revealed infidelity) is not going to help you in that direction. Before doing that, you should consider disabling her car for her discovery the morning she was to leave. "Irrational and borderline psychotic" would serve your cause better than "supplicating and timorous"! Unless MIL is also a major stockholder in WW's employer, the fight to keep her from the conference is yours to wage.

Does this mean you have not done a full exposure?

Who has been exposed?

You wrote, "I've read all the stuff about exposure, and it sounds great, but I can't prove that anything is still going on at this time." Why? You do not need to prove that the affair is currently active when you expose.

You also wrote, "What I really need to blow this wide open is access to her phone and work computer." She has probably used company time and resources to conduct her affair, and her boss has access to her work computer. Could you expose the affair to her boss and request private access to her work computer? You would need to do it secretly so she doesn't rush over to the office to delete her emails, etc. Alternately, you could ask her boss to check her computer and provide the info to you and to the company's human resources dept.

If you expose her affair to people who will be at the conference, there's no way she will want to go there and face them.

Have you put a Voice Activated Recorder in her car? Have you called OM betrayed wife and told her that your WW is still very secretive and you have a gut feeling that there is still contact? Does OM's wife know about the conference?

Killing an affair is a battle of wits. You have to be smarter than the waywards.

You have her confession and OMW's word. Why isn't this enough to expose now?

If she is still involved with OM (which I bet she is) then exposure is Exactly what you need to do?

Why do you need more evidence?

You do have enough evidence to expose. She confessed to an A, confessed to plans to resume it, refuses to be transparent.

The current snooping is just for updates and for exra oomph in your exposure. You still have stuff to expose even if you get nothing else

Can I please get some clarification on exposure?

I thought that exposure was to end the affair, but I can't prove that it's still ongoing. My plan was to definitively find out whether or not they are still in contact before calling down thunder and lightning from above.

Do you recall in the movie Enemy at the Gates when the German sniper expert says of his Russian opponent, "He is not dead, because I have not killed him yet."

What makes you think your WW's sick attraction to POSOM is over? Her word? REALLY? WWs have the ability to retain affections for their APs long after physical contact has ceased. (Drop on down to Driven2's thread for a reference.) In a New York minute, put the two of them alone in a room, and there will be sparks re-lit. And this is even giving credence to the fact that they are NOT in contact, surreptitiously, which is HIGHLY unlikely given her obsessive possession of her phone.

A WW's affair, like the sniper above, or Dracula in all those cheesy movies, must be KILLED. You haven't done that, and are not even standing in the way of their re-igniting it.

AW, please read this

When should an Affair be Exposed