hmph. here in nz, i know of a LOT of women (and men) who spout this same line. cohabitation and domestic partnerships seem to be the rule here, not the exception. yet, i've *never* seen *one* of them turn down a proposal when it finally arrives.

Matt, from an earlier post of yours: But now: So why were you going to get married, if you don't believe in marriage or see the value of it?

This doesn't even make sense. How are you going to make sense to the woman whom you say you do (or don't) want to marry?
If I were her, I wouldn't find your ambivalence very endearing or compelling.
You need to know your own mind before you can persuade hers.

I find it astonishing that its OK to get together before getting divorced because divorces take 'a long time'

Well of course they do! You aren't SUPPOSED to be able to break up a marriage quickly. That's the whole point of commitment!

By moving in together they got a relationship which was easy to dissolve. So if she dissolves it, for an exceptionally good reason, too! Well that's the deal he signed up for.

The way things stand, the exH is a just as good, if not better match for her. They had a commitment and a child and they did not get together while hurting and still married to others! At least there may have been a point in their relationship which worked. If she is minded to forgive an A, why should she forgive this man and not her H?

He would need to do a lot of work and change his attitude to relationships to become the better choice.

I had some wildly unsuitable men come on to me following my betrayal and before my D. Obviousyl not one of them had good boundaries, because they were hitting on a married woman. I am a non religious person, but I was still appalled they considered me to have such little sense.

Boundaries are like walls. They don't disappear for a short time, if they are true boundaries, that is stupid. People with boundaries observe them ALL the time.

Since the OW informed your fiancee its clear you had been meeting some needs of hers. And you slept with her because she did the same to you. If you don't understand this I would make it your business to learn, fast.

If you keep up this 'I don't know how it happened' pretence your fiance will (correctly) assume this means you also don't know how to stop it happening again

If you really and truly believe that, then make sure that she gets half of everything you own and child support if she decides to move on.

ak

Isn't is interesting that the same folks who dismiss marriage as nothing more than a piece of paper also demand that their own relationship be treated the same as a marriage?

Yes, and without that piece of paper, this fella will soon find he has no rights to his child and has to go to court to ask a judge's permission to legalize his relationship with his child, and you better bet if this woman was mourning not having both kids for Christmas she isn't going to give him any Chrstmases without a legal fight. Lacking that piece of paper loses his child the legitimacy of a father, which while society may denigrate, the law holds dear.

And interesting that those who dismiss marriage as nothing more than a piece of paper come to a site supporting the institution of marriage, for help when their anti-marriage relationship goes wrong.

so true.