Are you willing to approach this task without expectations of any short term reward?

The long view is required. Delayed reward, that sort of thing. Like not going shopping, but putting your money into savings instead. Shopping is fun. I like shopping. But, in the long view, a healthy savings account is much better.

I had thought of this, but didn't think it was the right time to suggest this.

Given the e-mail he wrote above, I think it's unlikely. I don't think he would take the time if he were involved with another.

However, since I don't personally know the man, it's just an impression. It's actually in my mind, less likely given the e-mail above.

Unless others see red flags in the e-mail that contradict my quite possibly flawed impressions.

Yes. I need to be a more selfless, empathetic and caring person regardless of how it turns out with BH. He has made his decision and anything I say to convince him would just be words. I need to make changes ant take actions that will not disrupt him and hope that by incidental contact he will notice these changes ( if I'm going about that wrong please let me know too) we don't have children so I'm not sure how much we will be interacting past the moving permanently stage but that won't be for at least a month. That gives me some time to work on myself and how I can best meet his needs from afar so that when I do finally see him in person I will be able to show, not tell.
I am sure in the short term I will feel despair and hopelessness but I have to keep in mind that this is a marathon, not a sprint and it isn't over until we both sign.

If it gives more clarity, he sent this first thing this morning. I figure the more information you have the more accurate and fine tuned the advice will be


I hope you are doing OK. I was not able sleep much and kept waking up. I'm off today so please me know what and when you would like to discuss those items. I do care about you, this is the hardest thing I every had to do. Thinking about a life without you in it makes me deeply sad and hurt.

And another... I am so confused if there is any hope at all. He seems to be making it very clear he is done but unless I am just seeing something I so desperately want to see, I sense just a glimmer of a chance.

I'm glad you are taking this time to educate yourself. I hope the books help you move past the issues our marriage had. I know it is not completely your fault and it would be unfair to blame you for all of this. I need to work on my issue of showing affection and love so that I can come out of this a better person. I'm glad you are moving back to SD. If there is anything you need help with please let me know. Just because I can't be with you doesn't mean I don't care about you.

Translation:


BH cares about how you feel.


He is (right now) not seeing any other option. If he did see another (reasonable sounding) option, he might try it !!! (happy news here)



He is paying attention. He is not indifferent towards you.


He respects himself. His self respect is very, very important to him. After thought and reflection, he is holding himself to a higher standard now.



He is taking his own inventory and looking at the fact that he allowed his own standards to slip. He also recognizes that maintaining one's values is essential to personal happiness.



If he had said "I am certain I am better off without you", I would be less optimistic. It causes him pain (tears) to think of being without you. There is some "there" in his love bank.


Lets list his needs:
1. Appreciation
2. Respect
3. Support
4. Gratitude


"Ouch", right? But look at this from the LONG VIEW. He is telling you how NOT to be in the future !!!!


How not to be: (things to fix)
1. Selfish
2. Disrespectful
3. Void of a sense of marital obligation


How not to be: (more things to fix)
1. Blaming
2. Irresponsible


Make a public declaration. Write a confession letter to his parents, his important friends. Brief. You had an affair. It was 100% your fault. Your H bears zero responsibility for your stupid decision. (By the way, never refer to your affair as a mistake. Always refer to it as your stupid decision. That shows more responsibility than "I made a mistake.")



Your stupid decisions (not something he did) killed the marriage . That is what he is really telling you.



Here, H is owning his part of the marital situation. He did not speak up and/or stand up to your selfish tyranny. He does not like/respect that in himself. He is determined not to be that guy any longer. When YOU read this you may think H is taking your inventory, but he is actually taking his own. That's excellent.


H is telling you that he wished he'd spoken up for himself sooner.


Let me explain. H thinks (based on past experience as your husband) that you are/will be unable to make the necessary changes. H is a new man. He is going to speak out and tell you when you are being selfish, disrespectful, etc, and he doubts you will be able to manage the criticism. You need to THANK your husband for each and every criticism he makes of you. Make this simple. "Thank you for letting me know the truth about what is hurtful (bothersome, whatever) to you. I appreciate your honesty above all else."



I am so happy to read this. Your H is a perfect candidate for MB counseling. He actually wants to be in love with you. He also understands how being married makes us obligated to try to please our spouse.


If he could be convinced you are not trying to salvage the painful past, but to build a bright new FUTURE together, there is a chance.



H is not willing to be vulnerable right now. He want YOU to put in the effort.



Being vulnerable is a risk he recognizes. He is deeply hurt. He is also DONE with being the 'bad guy' (according to you) in the marriage. I wish he's written "If it fails" instead of "When it fails" .... but, I deal with what he wrote, not with what I wish he'd written.


He wants a strong woman. Not a little girl.


He cares for you.

Quote

Make a public declaration. Write a confession letter to his parents, his important friends. Brief. You had an affair. It was 100% your fault. Your H bears zero responsibility for your stupid decision. (By the way, never refer to your affair as a mistake. Always refer to it as your stupid decision. That shows more responsibility than "I made a mistake.")

Do not announce this.
Just do it today.
Write a draft and post it here so we can help you edit.

Pep:

WPG: that was an excellent post. i think in the past i have been both the carrot and the egg. i am trying, really trying, to be the coffee! (sam l jackson voice?)

so glad to see pep here. i, too, think that mrfluffy is a perfect candidate for MB, and that this marriage, contrary to fluffymouse's immediate belief that her M is over, has every chance of recovery.

FM, do not despair. and don't mention ending your M to your BH again. ignore/avoid that. keep any responses to him, like your last one, short. no more books to him. remember that the pain *you* are feeling, and it is very real, is only 10% of the pain HE is feeling. read pep's analysis of his email again. and then again. you have every hope here. he is lashing out at you in his pain...and he is wondering if you're going to run. or will you woman up and make the changes that need to be made before he can offer you even a tiny bit of his heart again.

BSs push. we push you away, because you hurt us, so badly we think that everything we know, everything we ARE, has been one, big, fat cosmic joke ON US. but deep inside, we are hoping that your response to the pushes isn't "finally! i always wanted to get out of this!" but "you can push me away, but i love you and i'm still here and i'm going to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes."

baby steps, fluffymouse, baby steps. in order to stop your feelings, and your reactions to them, you need to focus on your plan. what can you do, TODAY, that moves you forward in your plan?

i have to go to work for a bit, but i'll be back. keep working it, FM. keep working it.

ps: one final note before i go. your BH will change his mind constantly. just because he made it up this morning to "end" the M, by no means is this M over. he's probably flipped back and forth a couple of times since hitting send. it ain't over till the fat lady sings, fluffy!

More stuff to read:

MB Newsletters

Lots of good stuff. Especially the stuff about how complaining in marriage can actually work to benefit the marriage.


Listen carefully, and with cleaned out ears to every complaint your husband makes. Thank him for speaking up. Never 'punish' him (sulking/fighting/etc) for voicing what he dislikes about your behavior. You want him to fall back in love, right?

I'm tracking your thread FM. You started off sounding like my WW and now your seem to get the MB principles being thrown here. I am in agreement that your BH cares about you a great deal but is hurt and protecting himself from your destructive behavior you exhibited in the past. Look at the translation of the email contact, its all in black and white. As they say on this board alot, clean up your side of the street. The fact he's complaining isn't a bad thing but a road map to you doing an inventory of yourself and making the changes to meet his emotional needs. You have done a lot of growing up since your 1st post. Keep on that path!

Thank you. I did actually send a letter to his mother yesterday morning before he sent this. The letter said

I know I said it in person but I wanted to take the time to let you know how truly sorry I am that I hurt you. It was never my intention to hurt anybody but as usual I was so busy thinking about myself that I did not stop to consider the consequences. Words cannot express the remorse I feel for my actions, not only the affair but the years of inconsiderate behavior towards those who loved me. I feel so blessed to have had you in my life and for all that you have done for me, I could not have asked for more love and support from my own mother.

It is my greatest hope that H will find it in his heart to allow me a chance to make amends and to prove that I can be the person he deserves. I know I don't have a right to ask but if you would please pray for us I would really appreciate it. I have emailed Pastor about attending confirmation classes and plan to continue to attend Reformation when I return regardless of whether or not we are able to repair our marriage. I cannot honestly say I am a believer yet but the kindness and guidance Pastor has shown towards me despite the circumstances has shown me that Reformation is a community I want to be a part of.

I know your top priority is H best interests and as long as he will allow me to I am committed to making them mine as well. I pray I will be given the opportunity to make us a family again but whatever the outcome, I love you.

Thank you Letty.
Right now the biggest shred of optimism I can hold on to is that it isn't over yet. I am trying to remind myself that once I move back it will be 300 steps from my front door to his. I mentioned my still wanting to go to church but that I wouldn't be there if it would be awkward for him and he said that my finding a relationship with God is more important than any awkwardness we might feel. I will take your advice about not using the d word as gospel, I have already let him know that I am willing to go along with whatever he wants and am going to leave it alone for him to choose the timeline.

I actually thought this as well but I did not want to say anything because I thought I was thinking it because that is what happened to me.

FM, is there anyway you can snoop and see if you can find anything? I got on my H's phone records and found the number of the OW.

I know all stories are different but my H told me we were over and that he wanted a divorce as well. When he did this he was about a month into his RA.


I am sorry that your H has made the decision that he has. His email to you broke my heart and reminded me of my own situation.

Yes, your instinct is right to allow him to make this choice but I would not crawl into a hole and just let it be. Continue to work on you no matter what and you are allowed to snoop and see what is going on on his end.

This site is a Godsend, so I would stay on it and let the people on here help you. I would also get on some medication ASAP!!

H s phone is through his work so there would be no way possible for me to access those records. When we first started trying to work on it we exchanged all passwords so if I wanted to I could check his Facebook and email records but he works on computers for a living and is the one who gave me the passwords so he knows I have them. I believe with every fiber of my being that he is not seeing anyone else but if he were there would be absolutely no way he would be sloppy enough to get caught, especially not from 110 miles away.

Well it sounds like that should be the last thing you need to be worrying about then. Just keep your eyes open and your chin up.

You seriously have some of the best people on here giving you advice.

Whenever anyone gave me great advice I would print it up, highlight it and put it in my MB folder. It should now be called my MB book because I have so much in there but I refer back to it often so I don't forget who I was and how far I have come.

t/j - Thank you, Pep...you, my friend, are most definitely the coffee!

FM, it's a new day- how's it going?

FM, you are getting advice from some MB superstars. You should learn and profit.

Happy to report that I was not around last night because BH and I were on the phone together for just shy of 8 hours. He gave me a list of items that I needed to do in order for him to feel right about being able to give me a second chance. We discussed each item and though a few are difficult and will require major lifestyle changes on my part I have agreed to them. We were radically honest with each other and each discovered things that have been bottled up for years but never discussed.

My personal email address and phone numbers have been changed. One of the items he requested was for me to give up my home business and find regular outside employment so we agreed that I would hand the business over to my sister and remain ownership but she would hold the primary operational roles. Since she would now be in charge of customer emails and would be the one who has the phone attached to the business number BH did not think it was necessary to change either of those contacts. We agreed that if for whatever reason my sister no longer wished to continue running the business we would shut down and liquidate the remaining inventory.

The tenants have been informed that they no longer have to move out and I will be returning home either tonight or tomorrow. An item on the list is that H does not feel comfortable with me coming up here alone so I will not do it again. We are going to come back this weekend together and sit with my parents and discuss our guidelines since a few of the guidelines effect them. H has a truck so we are going to bring some of the larger items back then as well.

One of the conditions was for me to get rid of the chinchillas. My sister offered to take care of a couple of my favorites and I am sure my dad would have taken care of one or two of the rarer ones but I agreed that they would not be returning to our home. Several hours later after he decided he was ready for me to move back, we came to the realization that I should not stay here just because the chinchillas have not been sold yet ( I haven't gotten any hits from the Craigslist ad I posted) so he said we should bring the chinchillas back so I can sell them from there. I had Christmas babies so I wanted to make it clear it would be unhealthy for them to sell either the babies or the mother until they were 6 weeks so I didn't want him to think I was dragging my feet on that and he said that was fine but I did need to realize that I did have to promise to sell them and it couldn't be like just because they are back that means they can stay. Then after further discussion, the wonderful man I married showed an incredible act of compassion by telling me that he knows that of all the requests this would be the most difficult emotionally so if I wanted to keep 2 cages of my favorites that would be ok as long as I kept them clean and was open to the possibility that he may not want to have them at sometime in the future and I need to respect that. I am incredibly grateful to have a H who cares so much about my feelings.

We are going to attend confirmation classes together and make it a priority to attend church each week as well as making an effort to become more active in the church community. We are going to follow the MB course outline and I am looking into how to work on my narcissistic personality disorder.