Welcome to MB!

Its exactly as ML puts it. Let them bring it to court ... the REAL picture will be revealed and your wife will lose. SHe doesnt want that .. but would rather give you manipulation tactics to scare you into submission. Let it roll off your back and continue your affair killing tactics.

My mother in law and her AP said the same thing to me when i exposed them ... they were going to sue me for slander .. and libel. However ... nothing of what I said was false and slandering .. or libel as the facts were facts and they could not deny. Their threats were empty and they never persued the court case for exposing their affair to my family. Which BTW ruined her AP's (AP = affair partner) mechanical business in their small town.

Kill the affair and keep a voice activated recorder on you to record your interactions. Keep a "log" of your interactions also ... but only include the facts and nothing that revolves around feelings. Just undisputeable facts when you make your logs.

Meanwhile.. you PLAN A and SHOW your wife your the better choice. Make the landing soft for her at home .. and hard for her in OMs arms. Paint the home picture better than the OM can.

ALso to note .. your out of town job may have to be put on hold and or stopped completely if you are to save your marriage. Being away from each other for those lengths of time in which you experienced greatly increases the contrast effect for the both of you and as you can see .. is very dangerous and disasterous for romantic relationships.

Good Luck!

MNG

If WW looses her job it's not because of the truth but the consequences of her actions ... ie the A.

As noted in earlier posts if you recover your marriage either your WW or OM will have to leave the workplace.

If they continue to work together there is a strong chance the A will be rekindled. Unfortunately this is how addictions work.

If you have a chance read UK Kat's thread "Come clean and telling the truth" this demonstrates how A can be rekindled when there is contact, even if the contact is years later.

Apologies UK Kat, I hope you don't mind me refering to your thread to help L & F.

If you read through various threads on MB and Exposure 101, you will discover how most BS found the concept of exposing difficult for various reasons. After exposure they all felt confident in the benefits, some even felt empowered by telling the truth.

How are your exposure plans going?

I know how painful the re write and denigration is but try to remember it is a wayward tactic. You know the truth and the real history of your marriage. An important point to remember when dealing with a wayward ... you can never reason or educate them.

Read this, it may shed some light on the foggy mind of a WS.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2315999

Thanks for all the support and excellent advise.

While preparing for the Exposure (I have all our friends, family details and have all his FB friends copied and his family details saved) I have since come to learn that there is another guy in the mix. Some one she has been in contact with for near on 9 months.

That's right. There seems to be a third party. I don't know to what extent the A is at, even if it is an A at all, but I have noticed form her phone records that she has been contacting another man either first thing in the morning or very late at night. I have no other evidence other than this. At times she has been texting OM1 at the same time as OM2. That is to say texts being sent and received, a plethora of them, between the two guys within minutes of each other, almost 1am in the morning. This was happening while I was fast asleep in the other room.

I confronted her about it and she got very angry, saying he was just a friend. Now she has admitted that OM1 is a lover (she says only emotional but I think that is a lie - well I assume because the number of condoms in her bedside drawer have decreased somewhat) but says OM2 is a friend. To avoid confrontation I said I believe her and left it at that.

There are way to many contact points at ridiculous hours for this to be the case.

I am absolutely devastated that the woman I once knew and loved is capable of doing such a thing. I honestly did not think she was capable of doing such a thing.

What should I do? Confront her to say I know she is lying that there is another guy? Should I include it in my exposure? Perhaps let both guys know she is cheating on not only her H but them as well? or should I get more proof about OM2 before I launch this bomb?

Devastated and really considering if I want to be with such a woman?????

re: OM2, let's just give her one chance to prove "he's just a friend", shall we? Ask for his name and address. Anything other than "His name is Joe Jones, and he lives at 123 Bunny Rabbit Lane," will mean she's got something going on that she will not freely share with you....and you know what that means.

Given that sad knowledge, then, include his existence in your exposure letter. "Friends, WW's got it going on with two other men beside me!"

Write the letter and post it here for review/editing. I will give you a hint: Brevity packs IMPACT that loquaciousness undermines.

And I thought I was being obnoxious with my "condom" reference! If she has a store of such items and has let you track their supply/usage.....Dude, she's stupider than most WWs we deal with here.

Great choice of words, cant wait to use them when I deal with the aftermath of the exposure.

You're right about the contact details thing, anything other than open honesty means she is hiding something, I like it.

But that got me thinking and it was under my nose all along. I checked her phone for messages recently alluding to the A. And found nothing. Then I checked her records and see she has texted him 13 times in the past day, which means she is deleting certain text messages from my prying eyes.

Case closed I think. How could I be such a fool, it was in front of me all along.

I feel really guilty snooping, but I suppose she deserves it, more to the point I deserve the truth.

Do I confront her now and say stop lying to me, I know. Or do I play dumb and try get her to tell me the truth. If I confront her, sooner or later I will have to give up my source of the info I am getting. She has no idea I have access to all her emails and phone records. I would like to keep it that way for obvious reasons.

Again should I call OM1 and OM2. I would love to. Tell them what I think of them both and then burst their little bubble and mention she is cheating on them as well. I kill two birds here. She may lose them both as they see her for what she is and I break both their little hearts and destroy everyone's fantasy.

I think I am starting to like this exposure idea.

Your only "confrontation" with a WW is when her "Mommy" for example, calls up screaming, "I was just contacted by your BH claiming you';re having an affair! What the HELL is going on?"

Until you throw the exposure grenade, your job is to put on a smiling face, and appear as the loving hubby. You want WW to let down her guard (maybe yielding some more evidence) but in no way suspecting the sh!+ storm that's about to hit her.

You might call OM1 and OM2 later, just for ego reasons, but, quite candidly, what would be the real purpose? "My friend, I do wish you'd cease plowing my wife like a cornfield! Terribly bad form, you know!" They KNOW what they're doing; you needn't tell them.

Here is your recipe, my friend:

NEVERGUESSED'S BETRAYED HUSBAND SURVIVAL KIT

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put a spy program on any cell that she might use. ("Eblaster" can cover #4 as well.)
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take "personal" calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and "on" whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife's contacts, to the tune of: "I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333"
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM's contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

Do that AFTER you have launched the exposure bomb. Dr Harley does recommend confronting the OP, but do it sometime after you expose.

And don't feel guilty about snooping. Snooping is a virtue in marriage. You have a right to know every thing she does because she is your wife. Are the cops bad guys when they spy on the drug dealers? It is the same principle. You have good reason to snoop.

NG, Thats pretty detailed stuff, thanks a million.

Key loggers and spyware? I don't think that's legal in my neck of the woods. Besides I know enough, I don't want to know anymore. I don't want to know about phone sex, or more naked pics or how juicy is P%nis is etc. All I want to know is if she is having an affair with more than one person. Which she clearly is.

But the other points you make are gold, thanks.

I am not sure who knows about OM1. I told her sister and one other friend knows, but that's about it asfar as I know. So its not common knowledge yet so I still have a fair bit of fire power.

NG I just read your story. Hell of a few days. Kudos to you sir for pulling through. There is hope for us yet.

L&F, I noticed that on another thread you mention a daughter. Please know that your child(ren) need to be told the truth about their mother as well.

Dr. Harley on telling the kids

yes two kids. One is 4 the other 1. So a bit young, but the 4 , year old will understand, so i will tell her. Oh yes.

Yes, it is very important to find an age appropriate way of telling her. Children that young tend to blame themselves for any discord between mommy and daddy and telling them that there are "problems" will still not absolve the child. Four is old enough to understand that mommys and daddys should not date.

Dr. Harley telling children even as young as 4.

The Harley's discuss telling the children even as young as 4 about the affair

I have completed my set up to expose. The button is ready to be pushed....

This may be cold feet but I am having concerns that this is not the best time to launch the bomb.

I am still in China and any aftermath that may happen I cannot deal with directly. I cannot be there to back my claims up, I cannot be there to speak to her or see how she reacts or give love deposits when she is hurting so bad. It just feels wrong to do this now.

I am back in Feb for 10 days, then back for good in March. Perhaps I should wait then. I will do it, definitely but the timing is not good.

Also, what repercussions could I expect? Being even more vilified than I am already been made out to be? The WS and her friends (that are supporting this A saying) saying "see you were right to leave him, he's a nut, if he loved you he wouldn't put you through the embarrassment and pain". All rubbish I know but she will believe them and possibly drive her further away.

Now I probably know what the answer to this will be but I wanted to share my thoughts. We had issues before this A, not big ones but still problems which I thought we worked out. In her eyes we clearly did not though.

She is using these reasons, along with "I am not myself around you" "you make me feel like I have no confidence and I am walking on egg shells" "you are controlling and manipulative" " I havent been attracted to you for a long time" for her main reasons for the divorce, not the A. If I blow this sky high am I not concentrating on the wrong issues. Will this not just drive her further into his arms or them deeper underground?

I think this is a good question and I tend to agree with you. It is going to be hard to handle this if you are not there.


She will be FURIOUS and will villify you if you do a good job of exposure. If you do a weak, ineffective job, she will just blow you off. And all her crapwit friends will condemn you as expected. But then, you are not doing this to get the approval of crapwits, you are doing this to save your marriage.


The biggest "issue" is her affair. Resolve that issue and you will have a chance to resolve the other issues.


She is already in his arms, though. Or we wouldn't be having this discussion. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposing it will cause it go into a freefall. It will start crumbling. Affairs are addictions and exposing them is like bringing a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to get high. It is no fun to get high when people are watching!

As usual thanks for the reality check ML. Agreed I cannot get through to her while she is on this drug. I have tried and nothing has worked. Lat hope is get her over the addiction then deal with the issues.

On a side note and nothing really to do with the A. We had planned in Feb to go away as a family, skiing in the Alps. She was fine with this.

On my last visit to the UK she said she did not want to do this anymore as it is too much pressure on her. Playing happy family and all that. I said fine but I will take the kids then. She then said maybe I will come for a few days? Go figure?

What to do? Just say no, or let her come? I would love her there but feel it is appearing weak and needy.

Next thing she says is she wants to go to S.Africa to see friends and family after Easter. She wants me to come. But my thought are she only wants me to come so I pay for the kids to go over (for the 1st time in a while she is paying for herself). I feel used, obviously.

I would love to go back to SA for a holiday with the kids but fear am being a doormat and playing into her plan.

So she does not want to come skiing with me, but will go to SA? Games or just using me?

Dude, dropping the exposure bomb will answer a whole lot of extraneous issues like where to go on vacation!

I think taking action while away, even given the difficulty with manage "feedback" will have certain challenges. Bu it would also have advantages. Firstly, there will be the "I'm halfway across the world providing for my family and this is what she does!" effect. There will also be the advantage of NOT having her cook up "abuse" allegations in response.

Your exposure will be universal, and therefore will include those misguided souls who will support her rights to "chase her dreams" or whatever pap is currently popular. You probably can identify some whose moral grounding is firmer (concentrate on your family). To those, you might send a secondary note saying as difficult as was the decision to take action while abroad, it was necessary, and you hope they will keep your interests at heart until you can return to more directly manage your issues.

The whole I'm away thing does have a huge impact, agreed. In fact those that know we have marital problems already (wife told everyone she is divorcing me before I knew and was overseas) have taken sides as it is, "how could she toss him aside like that while he's away and supporting the family".

I agree on that but I need to be there for the aftermath, period. I presume the relationship between OM and WS will be under huge stress and friends and family would want to talk to us etc, this is not a time to be absent.

Perhaps I do it just before I head back in Feb, like a couple of days before. So it goes out and everyone thinks I am over here and next thing I am in UK picking up the pieces.

You said something about misguided souls agreeing with "chasing her dream and being happy". That really made me think you know, because she used that on me "if you really love me you would let me go and let me be happy"

Its funny how happiness is the most important "right" to WS's. She must be happy no matter what, even if that destroys my life and that of the children. She must be happy even if it makes the other 3/4's of her (me and the two kids, immensely unhappy), Removes a father from two very young children's lives.

Imagine I said one day that I deserve to be happy. What will make me happy is if I had $10m. I am going to steal it from that man over there. As long as I am happy it doesn't matter what that will make him feel.

Never underestimate the other persons stupidity

Imagine I said one day that I deserve to be happy...I am going to steal it from that man over there.

Dude, can you abide a long-winded sidebar not precisely germane to your immediate situation? Too bad - I'm already on a roll!

You will find that her infidelity, this affair-destructive process, and whatever form of recovery your fate is to be, will change you, in ways that you cannot even foresee. It changes everyone. Some become more pensive and solicitous of fellow BSs. Some become bitter and vindictive, and "snipe" at all opportunities. Some retain guilt far too long for their failures to see the approaching betrayal, and "accept" unwarranted responsibility for the marital rupture.

I think, however, that the most likely adjustment you will find here will be an increased appreciation for doing right, for its own sake. That, at least is the one that comes across most clearly in the posts of the veterans here.

We don't know you, outside of what you've posted for our consideration. You might have been a paragon of propriety in the smallest details of daily life, as you apparently have been in your observance of marital fealty. But if prior to this crisis you had ever parked in a handicapped spot, or finagled your tax forms, or engaged in any of the myriad little shenanigans that could be utilized....after this experience you will likely find such options significantly more distasteful.

Okay, oration over.....

You make me laugh NG, thanks, needed that.

I'm sure you're aware I was being metaphorical, I'm not really the type of man that would do such a thing. lol. However if I did see someone with $10m on them it would cross my mind

Yes, I know what you mean. Since D-day I have found myself to be immensely careful of my actions and what I say to people and how to say it. I'm like most guys I suppose, straight talking with no bs. At times this may appear rude or offensive. However recently I have been a lot more interested in other people's needs and desires than my own, actually listening intently to what they say, going out of my way to assist where I can. A mate of mine commented if I had recently swallowed Coveys book "how to make friends and influence people"

And the funny thing is I haven't even been trying. It just seems like the right thing to do at the time.

So my predicament to date is that I need to decide on one strategy. I have been doing far too much reading and self actualization that my head is a mess with different techniques etc.

I'm sure some of you are aware of another very well known marriage councilor called Michelle Weiner Davis and her Divorce Busting strategy. It's quite different to Marriage Builders but many people rave about and follow it. I like the whole 180 technique and am practicing it and have seen great results from it, but she advocates going no contact as soon as possible - appear aloof, distant and unassuming. It also promotes the fact that a WS should be given time and not pressured to get over the affair on their own.

Just a few minutes ago I was given advise on the DB forum to NOT expose. Exposure will only force the WS to feel pressured and see me for my old self - controlling and manipulative. It will unravel any 180 I have done. The issue I have is that the only reason my wife has not filed for D yet is that I am over here, a million miles away. She says if I was in the same country I would have the papers by now. YIKES. So if I expose, the papers would fall in my lap very quickly.

WS says that I need to come home so I can get to terms with the D and we can start the process amicably. She has agreed to go to counselling but only so we can talk in the presence of a professional and she can explain why she wants this and hopes I will understand and accept and move on.

So the questions are:

Which strategy should I choose. EASY. MB seems the more direct and effective approach. Done. But I am getting cold feet, HELP.

Should I go to therapy with her when this is all she wants to discuss?

Should I chat to the OM before I expose? I would like to do this (not mention exposure obviously) just to tap into his better judgment and make him realize what he is doing is destroying lives. Perhaps he will get an modicum of guilt and back off. Or I could even scare the living sh*t out of him and threaten if he ever contacts my W again he will not walk again.