Not a good sign, I'm thinking........

Falconrap....you there???

Sorry for not posting in a while. I've had an interesting week or so. My plans went for naught as my computer kept having parts die off during the week. When last weekend hit, I found my computer off. Tried to turn it on, and eventually found one of the memory slots had gone bad. Ruined my pre-Christmas exposure attempt. Then, I decide to do it the day after and my keyboard port dies, forcing me to go get a USB keyboard to replace. This is all around my wife constantly being at her computer (right next to mine) or my son using it, all wrapped around al, of the planned activities. At that point I started asking God for guidance on this, as fate seemed against me. After I got my second appointment setup for the 2nd (earlier today), I had decided I would do it today, as my wife went back to work today and I would have all the time to do it.

But then I talked with Steve. Basically, from what he told me and expressed to me was that exposure is strictly a tool to end the affair (we all know that here), but it has diminishing returns after the first exposure and can appear to be more vengeful and spiteful to the WS. The fact that she is still holding onto the anger from the first exposure is also a factor. He asked about further communication since the last, and there has been none (I can actually tell this in her behavior - matching what I am seeing in my investigative attempts - as she gets more depressed and moody the longer communication is cut off). Since this is the case he recommended that I hold the exposure in my back pocket for now.

This basically boils down to the following factors on why: 1) she sees and acknowledges some of the changes I have made, 2) she is onboard with the fact that her truly ideal situation is to be in love with me (even though she can't imagine it yet), 3) she accepted and is reading HNHN and also accepted my LB survey filled out from what I think is her perspective, and 4) his belief that she can be lured into believing I can change and letting the affair die off during this process (if it doesn't...then I expose him). Since he is an expert in this, despite my desire to expose the OM, I'm going to hold off and do the advice Steve gave me and see where things go. I believe he sees the almost non-existent communication as an active threat to the affair's continued existence, and that I have the upper hand since I have time and I'm the father of the children.

I'm not going to try to really figure out to deeply why, and what Steve is fully doing, but I'm paying him some hefty coin, and he has stellar track record, so I'm going to follow what he says. God has really been with me, so I think I am good here. I found out today, right before my session, that the enabling 3 time married co-worker is leaving her company, and the state, at the end of this month. I have been actively praying for God to remove the enablers from her life. I am also actively praying for the OM to be removed as well. Maybe God will decide to deliver another gift for my upcoming birthday.

This has been a strange week plus. It seemed everything conspired against me doing the exposure, and now I'm wondering if God had a role in guiding me on this one. I know some will be disappointed, but I've had way too many things happen too me lately, including a 20 year wound that suddenly started healing, to believe it's coincidence. So keep praying for me folks. I think God has my back on this one.

She hadn't communicated with him for months, and she was starting to really go deep into depression, then they made contact again through work this past weekend (he sent her a music video link) and she responded back about not letting anyone control what he does and all the schmoopie crap (how do I do the puke gif!?) FR, 12 December 2012

This time, though, I have much more information on the OM and can widely expose him. I also plan to let my wife's boss know that she's been using company email to communicate with the SOB, thus using company resources to have an affair. I will also be posting a missive on my FB account describing what has happened, in general terms. FR 13 December 2012

that exposure is strictly a tool to end the affair (we all know that here), but it has diminishing returns after the first exposure and can appear to be more vengeful and spiteful to the WS. FR 02 January 2013

Nicely spun, hombre, evidently successfully to Steve, and attempted to us.

#1 - There was no true comprehensive "first" exposure. You never blew it open to her employer, and you never threw the bomb on POSOM's side of the fence, and I'm sure these annoying details were never included in your phone session. So, you are counting your totally farcical and inadequate mini-exposure earlier as the reason you can't do the job right now? Tiptoe, tiptoe.

#2 - POSOM has NO reason to stop trolling for WW's attention and possible interest. NONE! He scored on 12 December, and as soon as he finds another suitable song, he'll drop another line. EVERY TIME HE DOES THAT, AND SHE KNOWS HE'S THINKING OF HER, THE RECOVERY CLOCK GETS SET BACK TO ZERO!

See you in April, pardner.

NG, I knew you would come up with "reasons". Nice try. Steve has ALL the details. I missed nothing. I'm not spinning anything. Apparently Steve has different thoughts on this than you. I went into far more detail with him. I think he knows a little more about wayward mindsets and motivation than you, but feel free to keep insulting me.

Believe me, I think about the contact happening everyday. Perhaps his lacked communication with her is slowly draining the life of the affair, and Steve is picking up on this? I don't know. The only hesitation I've had with this was with the fact that she is still angry over the first exposure, going on 4 months later, and that my be a factor as well. As I said, I discussed every detail with Steve (2 sessions and a long email with all of the details), so think what you will.

PRAYING for OMs removal....HOPING OM doesn't contact WW???

Instead, you could be DOING what is necessary to ENSURE the A is over instead of the drip, drip, dripping of 'waiting' for the A to die.

I respect SH -- I counseled with him myself: AFTER I exposed, and while not the best in MB history, exposed on a more effective scale that you have in your 1st 'exposure'. And, SH supported that action, as did the good Dr. Harley.

Remember, God helps those who help themselves. Your wife needs your help, your protection, and I feel you are not taking the necessary steps to provide either.

Falconrap, anger over exposure is an expectation. It is not a legitimate reason to avoid exposure. I will have to read your thread again but typically, prolonged anger over exposure is a result of a half assed exposure. Meaning that the exposure was just enough to piss off the WS but not enough to kill the affair. As a RESULT, the WS stays in the fog. As Dr Harley has said numerous times, anger over exposure is a result of the fog.

Is this OM married?

I am disappointed in all the mud slinging on this thread. You do realize, falconrap, that these posters are doing nothing more than recommending MARRIAGE BUILDERS concepts? I can show you a multitude of quotes from DR HARLEY that supports their stance. DR HARLEY is the one that developed the strategy of exposure after all. It is HIS program and he oversees the cases.

Does she work at the same company as the OM?

Fr, did you confront your wife about this yet? In reading the last few pages I can see that going after the OM would be your best bet. If you exposed him to his wife, children and parents AND confronted that POS, I predict he would leave your wife alone. Have you confronted him?

And this advice *IS* marriage builders advice, straight from Dr Harley's mouth.

Falcon,
I have been following your thread and its immensely frustrating.

I coached with Steve and although he is a coach he can't make you do something, he coaches you in the MB concepts and gives good value for money so he's not likely to keep on covering the same point over and over again with regards to exposure when you are so hell bent on avoiding it.

It is likely that he advised you just as we do. You made excuses, ducked and dived around the issue so as any professional would do he just decided to move onto something more productive to help you. ML and other vets here don't have the time constraint Steve does and will rightfully not let u get away with a half baked attempt at saving your marriage.

I bet you anything if you asked Steve straight out and without further elaborations weather he thinks you should expose he will not hesitate to say yes.

It's your marriage and your choice. But just let us know how effective your choices have been so far at saving your marriage.

I would say you should collect the information and write the radio show. After all, it's free!

I guess I need to clarify a little. In my first meeting with Steve I had mentioned my thread and that a number of posters were recommending I go nuclear, which I had intended to do (the only reason why I waited is because I was paying a professional $225 for his opinion - while the valuable information here is free, but is more opinions based on some experience and limited training versus his). He, at that time stated that he is generally in favor of the exposure, but wanted to wait and see how my wife responded to the advice I gave. She responded quite well, agreeing with the premise Steve put forward and then accepting and reading HNHN from me via kindle book (I do have reservations about her reading this material strictly to help her in a relationship with the OM and expressed that briefly with Steve).

I had expected push back and was ready to still go nuclear, but when she readily agreed with all of this, I was kind of hesitant, since Steve wanted me to see if she would respond favorably. I then asked him via email if I should still expose his side or not, but Steve was unable to get back with me. Then I started having all kinds of computer problems (the 2 I mentioned were literally 2 of nearly a dozen issues I had) and started wondering if God was telling me to wait or not. I have been itching for weeks to burn that man down, but I don't want to do something that ends up making things worse. So after all that crap happened, I decided that if contact still was not happening (the Dec 9 contact was the one and only in the past month) that I would just wait to talk with Steve and get his opinion.

We talked extensively, and I told him I was perfectly fine with exposing the OM fully (even told him I was rather eager to do it). He told me to just keep it in my back pocket for now since contact hasn't again happened. I think what the issue is here is that, even after 4 months, she is still holding onto the anger over this against me and her father. She's really not letting go of it. Quite frankly, she has a problem with letting go of her anger over people. I think this is why Steve is recommending I try the tactics he has given me. I am absolutely pinning to fire off stuff to expose him, and I am really torn because I agree with the advice here, but I was very thorough and detailed with Steve and he has a great track record.

I'll detail some more in a while, but have to run for the moment.

Be assured that the advice being given here is not "more opinions;" it is DR HARLEY'S opinion or the moderators remove it. Dr Harley is the founder of Marriage Builders and designed this whole program. If anyone here is giving you advice that conflicts with Dr Harley's, I would encourage you to notify the moderators so they can remove the post and perhaps even BAN the offender. It is against the TOS to post personal opinions that conflict with Dr Harleys.

So if I have posted anything that contradicts Dr. Harley's advice, I would encourage you to notify the board admistrator Justuss to have my posts removed and have me banned.


This is a ridiculous excuse to avoid exposure since it is EXPECTED that a wayward will be angry about exposure. That is an expectation, not an excuse to avoid exposure. Anger over exposure is due to the FOG and your wife remains foggy because of her affair. Exposure would run the OM off and kill her hopes of the affair. That would do more to dissipate the fog than anything.

here

And what does exposure do?

here


The fact that you have not exposed to the OM's side only means that he is free to contact her and, vice versa, again. You have left that door wide open for absolutely no legitimate reason other than she might be angry. If that was a legitimate excuse, then NO ONE WOULD EVER EXPOSE AN AFFAIR.

And again, if I have inserted my own personal opinion in place of DR BILL HARLEY'S concepts, I would suggest you notify the moderators and have me removed from the forum. I have fought long and DAMN HARD for 12 years for the privilege of discussing Marriage Builders on Marriage Builders and I DEEPLY RESENT the suggestion that I - or any of the others on this thread - are posting advice that is contradictory to Dr Bill Harley's. If anyone has done that, please report them.

I am deeply disappointed and insulted about all the myriad of lame excuses you have produced to avoid exposing this affair. I now understand why your marriage has limped along all this time.

Melody, I think you are taking what I said too far. It wasn't meant as an insult. Quite frankly, I highly value your opinion in particular. This isn't a first exposure, it's a second. She's already been exposed to everyone that she cares about, and would have any influence over her. Perhaps the anger would subside when she is out of the fog, but I have discussed this with Steve Harley, and is recommending I hold off too see if what I am doing works and if contact continues or not. Quite frankly, I would love nothing more than to blow his world up. I've actually prepared letters to his daughter, FB friends, as well as a long detailed email for him (which will include a picture of my family one month before his interference) to send out.

I'm not making up excuses. I'm just trying to "guess" at what the thought process is from Steve. He has a history of success, so should I not listen to him? If this was a first go around with exposure, I would certainly question any advice on not exposing. He did tell me that repeated exposures have a diminishing returns factor to them, and tend to start making the BS look vengeful/spiteful. In other words, there's a balance there. Personally, I'd love nothing more than to go up and "take care" of the problem permanently, but I know that's not the smart thing to do.

Everyone here is saying do it...while Steve is saying hold on and see if the affair dies naturally or continues on. I kind of agree more with everyone here, but I'm not the expert...Steve is. I can tell you right now that if contact had continued past that one day, I would have done it regardless. But they made that one brief contact and stopped again.

I'll say this, I'll email my concerns to Steve and see if he can get back with me with an answer on this. It's easy for people here to make these opinions known, but it's not as easy when you are on this end trying to not make that one single mistake that eliminates your chance to fix the problem. My gut says pull the trigger, but so far, some of my gut feelings have failed me, and my MB coach is saying hold off. See my conflict? You guys are essentially telling me to ignore what Steve Harley told me to do.

Humbly I say, from my own experience, if you did not expose the OM or on the OMs side, then you did NOT complete a 1st exposure.

You talk about this as a '2nd exposure', when in reality if the OM wasn't exposed your 1st exposure is incomplete.

And you're wasting valuable time in arguing the semantics)


(BTW - Melody, great post. I think I remember a similiar one to me when I was dragging my feet, too. And I'll reiterate my apologies for being an idiot and not listening to you sooner and exposing earlier than I did. My W still thanks me for doing that, and acknowledges that as being the turning point for us working to save our marriage. thank God I wised up...).

Once again, there is no legitimate reason not to expose. You have not exposed to every key person if you have not exposed to the OMs side. That is a huge miss. We can see e result. The reason to expose there is to kill her future hopes of the affair and prevent further contact. There is no reason to wait around to see if the affair "dies a natural death"; you already have evidence that it has not in all these long months.

DR HARLEY also has a history of success and you ignore his advice at your own peril.

I see you are now using Steve as an EXCUSE to avoid taking very basic steps and are wasting board members time. If you are you going to ignore, dismiss and insult board members for giving you MARRIAGE BUILDERS ADVICE, then why waste our time? Once again, if anyone here is posting anything contradictory to DR HARLEY'S advice, I would encourage you to report them.

I want to point out that we have tons of new people coming on the board who truly need help. I think it is a travesty to waste time with a poster who is clearly seeking excuses to take very basic steps.

Very disappointed....

From one BH to another. EXPOSE THAT POS! I understand what your saying Falcon but on the other hand the 1st exposure was incomplete. Look at it this way! When you expose POSOM aka thermonuclear warfare your WW shouldn't get mad! She isn't in contact with him correct?! She wouldn't find out unless you tell her. See where I'm going with this...

I'm sorry you feel you are wasting your time on me Melody. I emailed Steve with the concerns from the forum, including my own desire to do something, whether exposing the guy or just using his own guilt (which he seems to be susceptible too) by writing him to back off again (I may still send him something brief). Steve called me up today and let me know how he felt about the situation (he has all the details) and he believes that since communication hasn't happened in a month, and only once int the last 4, that I should hold off since doing so now will create a dust-up that will take time to get past. He wants me to focus on working doing what I am doing.

He says if any further communication occurs, all bets are off and that I should go forward, which I will.

Look...I've been wanting to pull the trigger on this for a while, but "things" keep happening that aren't normal, that tell me to just hold course. Earlier today I prayed for a specific answer on what I should do...and it came. Steve was very specific on why exposure at this moment won't serve much of a purpose. I understand is thinking, even if I am mixed on my view of it. He was adamant that if communication occurs again that I do indeed fully expose his side. I'm going to trust his judgement, since my WW has agreed with the principles, has gone forward with reading HNHN, and since her psychiatrist is reaffirming HNHN other in her sessions there. I'll see this weekend if she is opening up to the possibility of doing the program. My first goal is to get her to the point where she willing has a discussion with Steve so that we can see where she truly is and whether or not I have to take further measures on the affair front. She's becoming depressed again, as the communication is 0, and I know this impacts her thoughts of him negatively. Personally, I don't think this affair can withstand the repeated strain of a lack of communication for extended periods of time, but I worry, as you all do, about resets.

I'll keep everyone updated as things progress.

TD, I hear you, and I have thought that very thing, but there is the risk he will tell her, and right now Steve thinks it's better to hold on to that ammo in case it does happen again, while concentrating on bringing her back into the fold. Believe me...I've been swinging back and forth on this for a while now. It drives me nuts. I'm going to trust Steve for now. I'm paying him good money to help me save my marriage, so I'm going to listen to what he's saying.