Well, NG, you never fail to disappoint me with your sarcasm. LOL.

However, there's quite a lot of fact buried under that sarcasm, huh?

I dont understand why this poster is being criticized for following Steve Harley's advice?

If he is lying and never spoke to Harley or lies about what he was told then that is another matter.

But why is wrong with him following Harley's advice?

x 2 especially the latter and the same to BWs. To each his own but every BS has to look at themselves in the mirror, whether or not Steve, Dr H, or posters agree with x, y, or z. MB has never been about marriage at all costs...I am sensing a shift in that thinking lately...which I think is sad.

They were quoting Dr Harley, Jedi. It is DR. HARLEY who says this. It was HE who stated that most "mental illnesses" don't exist.


DR. Harley's advice is to expose. Therefore, he is not following Dr Harley's advice. He has adamantly resisted following that advice at every turn.

WE came over to the dark side!

And he also said that almost ALL of the people who show up at Marriage Builders for help have "personality disorders." He believes most people DO. If they did not, they wouldn't need the help of Marriage Builders!

Jedi,

from what you just said Dr H gave you full MB advice, plan A and plan B are part of the program they were not modified or created for your specific circumstances.

The problem with falcon is that he severely damaged his credibility with posters, he rants and raves about how he's going to kick the OMs backside with exposing then makes excuses like my computer broke down, the dog ate my homework etc then disappears for a couple of days when he is supposed to be exposing and comes back once a few posters seek his progress and makes some more excuses.

His WW has not written the NC letter, she has had recent contact with the OM and is refusing to participate in the coaching or any reading to do with Mb and saving her marriage. This is NOT recovery and something is not right about this.

I can totally agree with why Steve would move on from pushing falcon to expose. He has an uncanny way of ducking and diving around what needs to be done and as Steve is a good coach he can see that and has simply moved on to the next step in the coaching. I fully support and believe in the coaching method Steve uses as he helped my marriage. My issue is with Falcons credibility, hiding and constant excuses not Steve's coaching.

Well said, NB28. Agree with every word.

Hammer meet nail.

WE came over to the dark side!

Yes, and once again we must entice the young Jedi to join us!

NB28,

Agree with every word; well stated.

Look, I'm not a model MB-er. I spoke with both SH and Dr. H after I botched the NCL portion of the MB plan. I'm not perfect by any means...as a matter of fact, I just want falcon to understand that of all the aspects of the MB plan that I am SURE works, it is EXPOSURE.

The best proof I have of that is my own beautiful wife, who, as we were reflecting on 2012 at NYE, turned to me and THANKED ME once again for exposing the affair (3/9/11), getting the OM away from her and out of her life...and, with no intention of it sounding like a DJ, she added: "I only wish you had done it 3 months sooner..."

I know for many BS exposure seems counterintuitive...but it WORKS!

You aren't holding back there, Viper, are you now? Do you feel ok?

Oh I have to laugh at this. By the way, my computer did have repeated issues. I now have 2 dead memory channels, I had to replace my UPS, and I also needed to do a recovery on it. Things happen. I found it odd that they all happened back-to-back when I was planning on pulling off my exposure of the OM.

Now, let's get some things out of the way. I've already exposed HER side, so I've felt the "wrath" and I wasn't impressed. To be quite honest, she's a bit of a pushover in this area. So I don't fear her anger. The only fear I have is doing what will work with my wife and not end up permanently driving her away. When I first refused to expose the OM side it was strictly on the grounds that he seemed to move on, and I didn't want to reset her clock. Nothing more, and I've stated this time and time again. Even since the early December communication, he's once again backed off and my wife is once again dipping into depression symptoms.

When I first talked to Steve, I had told him what I had and had not done and during our discussion I mentioned that the posters here wanted me to go nuclear on the exposure, that I was fine with doing that, but wanted to get his opinion (I had mentioned before this that she was still hanging onto the anger from the original exposure 3 months later, and this may be part of why he is telling me what he is) on the exposure. He was taken back by the level of animosity involved from this group on getting me to do this at all costs. When I talked with him yesterday I told him I wanted to do this, and he said he understood my desire for revenge, but that exposure is an instrument to be used at the right time to accomplish specific things. It seems he believes exposure is more for the WW than the OM, and I did expose my WW.

I didn't lead him into this line, and he does clearly have a different view on exposure than this board. Right now he wants to see how my wife continues to respond to what I am doing and see if she will come on board. I think he believes that, with virtually no communication going on, and my attempts to gently lead her down the MB path and to accept its premises, that the affair will die naturally and she will turn. This is what I have gathered from what he has told me.

And as I mentioned before, Sue and John, in SAA, never had exposure involved. BUT, I tend to agree with this board on its use. Had I had access to the OM's information from the start I would have gone nuclear on him then without issue (it took little prodding for me to actually expose in the first place). But if I did, and he still communicated again later...what would I do know? Steve told me to hold this in my back pocket and use it if it happens again. I will. I am still going to send the cretin a "stay away, I know" email anyways because I can't abide doing absolutely nothing and would love nothing more to put the fear of the unknown over his head.

Short in sweet...I didn't guide Steve to this path...he was explicit on his views on the use of exposure...it's different than the views of many here, to a certain degree.

Is there any communication other than what you mentioned earlier?


What's the difference? If the idea is to NOT expose to OM out of fear that he'll resume contact, won't emailing him a swat on the wrist (which he'll promptly ignore) risk the same result?

I guarantee that your notes to him are akin to a chihuahua dog yapping at a dinosaur. He'll get quite the laugh out of it and you'll alert him to your method of spying. Dipsnits (using an NG term there) don't respond to such things.

The only communication with her was when he sent a music video link to her at work telling to to "see this" after she wrote him a nasty email. She wrote back telling him to fight for what he believes in. No other communication since (going on a month now). So that is one communication in 4 months, and nothing but a music video link.

As far as my communications with Steve, you are calling me a liar. I have told him everything. He actually told me his thoughts on exposure, as I mentioned, and it matches his recommendations. I heard, months back, that Steve's view on exposure was "softer" than his dad's. The reality is, people are getting caught up on the process. Affairs can, and do, die without exposure. Steve has a very successful track record and I made sure he had all the details. I held nothing back. So I'm going to listen to him.

As far as the very brief, non-descriptive email I just sent to POSOM, the difference is that this isn't some wide exposure. It's simply a note to him that I know and to stay away (no details...so I'll let him ponder that). Nothing more. He hasn't communicated my communications to him back to her, so I'm not really concerned with that. Again, I don't fear her "wrath" since it's not much to fear. I just want to take the steps my MB coach says to take to best do what he believes will give me success. I am not going to go against what he is asking me to do as he knows better than I.

SH "approved" that you communicate with the OM and send an email to the OM directly, but advised you AGAINST exposing the OM / OM's side?

No. I didn't ask about the quick communication. I just couldn't stand not doing something. The guy seems to have a guilty conscience. Apparently, one of his friends has gotten on his case repeatedly not to get involved with my wife, and that may be the reason why he kept backing off before I even knew of the affair.

My personal opinion is that, if he was fulfilling the needs of intimate conversation and admiration, it's kind of hard to fulfill her EN's when you have one linked music video communication in 4 months. Steve hasn't said this, but I suspect, based on how he talked to me, that he feels I'm probably filling some of her EN's and the other guy currently isn't doing any, and the end result will be her slowly coming back around and the affair dying off naturally. This is my best guess based on what he has said, and based on what he has me doing. Let's be honest, affairs can't last if the EN's aren't getting regularly filled.

If you're worried that your exposing him will remind him of your wife and cause contact, then how's that any different than sending him a note?


The above, while I seriously doubt any guilty conscience, is a perfect reason to go ballistic on his side of the fence. Nothing like a little insurance, you know.

And I'm not calling you a liar. I actually give a damn about your marriage and want you to get through this with an intact family. Food for thought. My motives aren't just to sit here and piss you off.

I understand what you're saying; I just don't agree with it.

If, as you state, you "just couldn't stand not doing something", then why not follow Dr. Harley's advice on "doing something" - Exposure - rather than a quick email informing the OM what he already knows...that he violated NC and should stay away from your W? He better watch out -- or, if he does it again, you might send him another email?

I agree with NW here...why 'swat' the POSOM away when you can crush him for good?

What's the saying....'Go big or go home'?

Best of luck.

Northwood, I guess all of this is getting me into a bit of a fighting mood. Believe me, my head is spinning enough as it is. A full blown exposure on his side will most certainly lead to a dust-up that will get back to her. Steve told me that doing this should be something I hold off on because it will reset things between me and her and that will mean another drawn out period of time to get things going again. I think he sees more risk in me losing my desire to continue if this gets fully reset, and that he doesn't see any value and doing this now if the guy continues to stay away.

Based on all the questions he asked me about her responses to what I was doing, I think he feels she may be vulnerable to me and able to be turned without the dust-up that exposure entails. He seems more interested in getting the WW into the mindset that it is better to fix things with the husband than to pursue something she knows has little chance of success. Guessing here, but that seems to be where he's going.

The reason I won't do exposure right now is because I want to follow the expert advice that I am paying good money for. Nothing more. As I stated, if there is anymore communication, he wants me to fully expose the OM, and I will.