NW

I asked that very question and got ignored

Yes, I thought you made a good point. I figured it got lost in the commotion and was worth repeating.

Sorry NB28. I've been getting beat up from every direction and missed that. My ability to monitor communications got me the information. Apparently the OM's best friend, a male, went through something similar and has repeatedly admonished him not to do this. Apparently this was a big driver in why he would fail to communicate with my wife for a couple months at a time during the spring and summer this past year. I initially thought he had another piece of ___ on the side and simply didn't want to deal with the trouble. I later found this information.

This man is in PA. We are in FL, and neither has traveled to see the other, except the brief meeting they had when my wife was in WV last May, where they did some kissing and schmoopie talk. No sex, and little contact after that meeting (he was reluctant to meet her then as well). So he has something "wrong" on his end. He's clearly not all in on this. Maybe he does have a guilty conscience. I don't know. Everyone who is important to my wife knows about the affair. It's only his side that doesn't.

Naive? Nope. I don't trust anything either says to me. I watched my wife lie to me directly about communication back when I talked with her about what Steve said.

I'm not terrified to expose. I did it before with little repercussions too me, so I don't fear it. As I've said a dozen times, I want to do the right things. Maybe Steve thinks I am reluctant, but it didn't sound that way when he described why he though I should hold off.

I sure hope he's not holding back because he thinks I don't want to do it.

Falcon I'm dropping hounding you about exposure because there are some other issues that are concerning me right now.

HNHN is really not the right book for a foggy WW to read, I ordered the book but physically hid it from my WH until he committed to recover and was showing true signs of of remorse.

As far as the your WW not having sex with the OM, how sure are you about this?? How do you know?? The problem with believing these things is that at some point the truth will come out and you will be hit by a whole lot of pain and suffering again. You need to be 100% sure as to what took place between your WW and the OM.

What conditions have you set your wife in order for you to recover your marriage with her?? Why is there no NC letter??
Plan A involves you meeting your WW needs in order to draw her out of the fog but its not a doormat plan. It has a carrot and stick approach, what are you doing for the stick part.

When is your next session with Steve?

I am going to make this last post and then move on, because this is not helping falconrap or ME. [I have shingles!] But a good friend on the forum emailed me and told me that Dr. Harley counseled her WH to get ahold of the new edition of HNHN and read the last chapter, which is about exposure. He had just revised HNHN to add the chapter on exposure and wanted him to understand the "VALUE OF EXPOSURE."

Her situation was a little different in that her WH was not in love with the OW and was very, very committed to recovery. [this was Dr Harley's verdict]

I can see why he would have said that, however, he has said numerous times on the radio that he wrote SAA for people who have HAD affairs and HNHN for people who have NOT because in HNHN he places alot of the blame on the BS [in order to scare them into working for healthy marriage] and in SAA he places most of the blame on the WS.

Anyway, over and out!

The good friend, BTW, was me. (Thank you, Mel, for describing me this way.)

Dr H spoke to my H personally on the phone and was quite convinced that my H wanted me and our marriage and was never in a million years going to choose OW over me. My H was the classic cake-eater, and OW was needy and clingy and this flattered WH's ego. According to Dr H, my H felt that I was very independent and strong, and this intimidated him somewhat, while OW needed him and this appealed to him. (I have tried to learn from this.)

Anyway, the final chapter of HNHN was recommended to him (and he read it) because (from an email from Dr H to me when we started the online course):

"The last chapter of the new edition of His Needs, Her Needs (�Surviving an Affair�) would also be helpful to read because I focus attention on the importance of exposure."

I agree exposure helps a lot, if I were you I would do it but if you are dead set against just remember hindsight is a mfer.

"As far as the your WW not having sex with the OM, how sure are you about this?? How do you know?? The problem with believing these things is that at some point the truth will come out and you will be hit by a whole lot of pain and suffering again. You need to be 100% sure as to what took place between your WW and the OM.

What conditions have you set your wife in order for you to recover your marriage with her?? Why is there no NC letter??
Plan A involves you meeting your WW needs in order to draw her out of the fog but its not a doormat plan. It has a carrot and stick approach, what are you doing for the stick part."

Falcon,

I too will refrain from 2 x 4s for not exposing this OM. It's been said by many in a zillion ways...however...

Couple that with NB28's latest (albeit repeated countless times by many) questions, and your situation is terribly alarming. If exposure was the ONLY move toward recovery that was missing in your plan and with counsel from Steve. OK? But, it's not. I see that nothing has been done. As in zip. No NC leter, and no WW list of EPs much less a timeline to execute them.

These 2 things are non-negotiable, yet, not done.

None of us can hear your conversations with the good Dr., and I for one don't think you a "lying". What I DO think is that you are hearing WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. From Steve and from your WW.

A friend of mine said some 20 years ago that she could make the Bible "say" whatever she wants it to say. So can I. So can you. Just start a discussion with "Thou Shalt Not Kill" in a group of 50 people. Get the point? Try the same with the second amendment. My point is that you, I believe, are in a place of this >>>>>>> "Well, it depends on the definition of 'is', sir". <<<<<<<

Me? I read your posts as logical. Great. I also read your posts as, well, blah. You think NG is crass and judgmental and harsh? I can't post what I want to. All I will say is this: if my husband (I am not married, but from a woman's perspective)) approached a OM like you are? I would think the same...blah. Maybe she won't go back to THIS OM. But, there's another in her future. See, it's not about this OM only, it's about YOU PROTECTING YOUR WIFE, AND HER RESPECT FOR YOU AS A MAN. Women do not fall in love with men they do not respect. Women fall in love, and stay in love, with their knight that will protect their honor. You, sir, are not doing that, and you are not showing your wife that, despite her wishes, you are going to give this POS OM a beat down that will have him running to the hills for his dear life. Your WIFE needs to see this from you. You need to be her hero, and she needs to see you fight for her and for her honor.

That, my friend, is how the many BH's here have FWW's thanking them for exposure. Sure, it is a tool to end THIS affair, but most importantly is shows their WWs that they fought for them. And, that is a greater tool and tiny step for fending off future affairs, re-gaining her respect for you, and restoring romantic love.

Good luck to you.

Surfer88,

Maybe the best post today to falcon.

Very well stated; thanks for writing.

Be well.

Please remember that Steve Harley is not "the good Dr". The founder of Marriage Builders who devised the entire programme and always recommends exposure is Dr Willard Harley, Steve's father.

Thanks HFD. Followed you from day one, my friend. I hope Falcon hears you one day.

Point well taken, Sugar!

Falcon: one last post tonight. Have you read WulfPackGirl or newer Fluffy's thread (s)? These are remorseful WW's, and not in pathetic ways, but very respectful and mature ways . You're WW has a long road ahead of her with your support. You can lead her, but there is no way forward until she hits rock bottom. You can help her if you follow the advice here.

You are doing nothing to her, but rather for her. Remember that.

LOL...kinder and gentler is my mantra these days. But since that has never served me very well, I just usually take one stab at the old way and walk away for awhile when it doesn't work. It's not going to work on this thread anyway, so why bother?

Alright, last shot. Falcon, until this fantasy is FULLY extinguished in the mind of your wife, you simply will not have a chance to recover. The fact of the matter is, she is still full blown in an active affair....at least in her mind she is.

She received contact from him after 4 months NC, initiated by him, completely unprovoked by her, and neither one of them suffered any consequences for this breach. Until you shut this down with no chance of re-firing, she WILL keep it alive in her mind. The really bad part is that when he does make contact again (and he will, bank on it) it will entrench this even further because it will show her that in spite of everything that has happened thus far, he's still there for her.

Is this really what you want? Because this is where you are headed.

Make no mistake about it, my friend.

You think NG is crass and judgmental and harsh? I can't post what I want to.

Uhhhhhhh, ouch?

LOL NG. I hope you know your "rude" posts as described by Falcon a few posts back are appreciated by...ME!

yup.

Viper is right. It's the continuall fantasy.
But I also see the argument that Steve gave you, to see how it goes.
I don't see the point in paying $250 an hour to Steve if his advice differs from the board forum.
The forum takes a cookie cutter approach and Steve is probably more aware of the uniqueness of your marriage but seriously: Why pay for te coaching if Steve Harley is giving non MB advice?

I suggest you email the radio show and ask for guidance. Explain that Steve Harley has said to hold off on exposing OM for now while many on the forum are suggesting that you expose him. Ask Dr Harley for direction.

Better yet ask for a refund if Dr Harley says to expose

No, the forum does not take a "cookie cutter approach," it gives Dr. Harley's advice. This is Dr Harley's advice and I would point out that we are here to follow his "cookie cutter approach" which advocates exposure.

Like I said before, if you see any member giving conflicting advice to DR. HARLEY's, then you should notify the moderators so they can remove that member.