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He sounds like he has never had a successful relationship. Neither have I!! This definition would limit me to married men and widowers. Yet now you have decided to enter an exclusive dating relationship? This might be an example of "do what I say not what I do," and I can certainly understand that because I do it too!  Just wanted to point out that statement you made last year so you can contrast it with your current dating decision. Also, from the beginning of this thread, I'm also following Dr Harley's 30-dates-in-a-year advice. Basically I got married without dating much first and so his rules regarding contrast effect are particularly important to me, I think It's the "I think" part I'm wondering about. Sounds like you might've had some reservations about the 30 dates contrast effect when you first posted this thread. I'm not trying to dissuade you from dating exclusively, I just wanted to give you some food for thought. I think what you're doing is great! I think you can be exclusive without a feeling of permanence and simply have fun getting to know someone else a bit deeper. While it may save you the heartache of a later break-up, I think going into a relationship cautiously can take the fun out of it. I agree with pokerface that you are a smart woman. I say, go for it and have fun! You'll do the right thing. I still think the contrast effect, in the form of male friendships, flirting etc is important. And the fact that this relationship is casual and not 'binding' too, absolutely. But I do feel like rather a hypocrite, yes  "exclusive to me does not mean serious"
Really? Because it does to most of the human population. That is not the understandsing between me and artistman. The most attractive part of his offer was that part. The slow, not serious part. I hadn't expected someone to offer me that and yet only want to date me. Serious means you will fix things if they go wrong. Sort it out. In this case if things are just slightly off key, or we don't get along as we hope, it's over. We both understand that. Maybe I'm just odd but I don't meet friends and family members after a few dates. Not trying to be a downer, Indie but you have contradicted yourself a lot...and in a short period of time. If you weren't such a vocal MB member, a lot of what you have said may have gone under the radar but you have been vocal about not rushing things to others and that advice seems to have gone out the window. I'll just shut up...for now. I have never claimed to be the all knowing and I am aware that on THIS thread I am the least objective voice. That is the whole point of this thread. So don't be shy. As to your point, ordinarily I would agree with you. If I had met him at work, or through mutual friends, I wouldn't want to meet his mother at this early stage. But there is a lot to be said for it when you have met online. And I don't 'want' to meet his mother or get serious. Nowhere have I said that, I ASKED for feedback as to the tactics of it. It is good to gets feedback about the process...so many people have such different experiences and react s differently. Not sure if you should meet his family so soon or not but had to share that 2 weeks after dh and I met we had both sets of our parents to my house for dinner. The way he was with his family helped me get a good picture of him...and while I was cooking he was doing a project for me...installing a pocket door. Everyone here said that was a big red flag...meeting parents so soon...that he was rushing me.....but it has worked out so wonderful.
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I'd use the fact that you'd be there on Saturday as the perfect excuse to get a few more weeks of dating under your belt before you meet his folks. I THINK (genuinely not sure) that I like the fact he has offered and the offer is enough for now. Maybe I will meet a friend or two of his before his mum.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Maybe I'm just odd but I don't meet friends and family members after a few dates. Not trying to be a downer, Indie but you have contradicted yourself a lot...and in a short period of time. If you weren't such a vocal MB member, a lot of what you have said may have gone under the radar but you have been vocal about not rushing things to others and that advice seems to have gone out the window. I'll just shut up...for now. I have never claimed to be the all knowing and I am aware that on THIS thread I am the least objective voice. That is the whole point of this thread. So don't be shy. As to your point, ordinarily I would agree with you. If I had met him at work, or through mutual friends, I wouldn't want to meet his mother at this early stage. But there is a lot to be said for it when you have met online. And I don't 'want' to meet his mother or get serious. Nowhere have I said that, I ASKED for feedback as to the tactics of it. I will not be shy!!!  That being said, I really will shut up because I'm headed out for a pedicure...and I have an ice cream date later.  I know you are a smart lady. You may not 'want' to meet his mom but if you don't want to meet her then don't. I wouldn't even make up an excuse not to meet either...assuming you decide against the Sunday meeting. If you are both on the same page of not getting serious or having some high expectations of the other, then just telling him you don't want to met his family just yet should not be a big deal so no need to make excuse...that also starts to blur the lines of what you want out of a relationship (even casual)...O&H. If you meet the mom, to me that sends a message as other have said...intended or not. Artist can says all kinds of things, but it doesn't mean he isn't hoping for certain things. You have seen this sort of thing on MB and it's probably human nature anyway.
Last edited by black_raven; 01/23/13 04:32 PM.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Why would it upset you?
That is dating. I think I said it would turn me off. And dating is done in different ways. As I said if a man can't focus his attention on me long enough to determine if I am a yes or no for him then he isn't the one for me. I fall somewhere in between these two viewpoints I think.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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[quote=indiegirl]if you don't want to meet her then don't. I wouldn't even make up an excuse not to meet either... Well no I wouldn't make up an excuse, I would be frank. I've never yet figured out a way NOT to be. Artist can says all kinds of things, but it doesn't mean he isn't hoping for certain things. Possibly, very possibly. But I can't worry about that. I am in taker mode and only really care what's in this for me/ what my perspective is. I have to.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with an exclusive fling. It might lead somewhere, it might not.
Just keep in mind that you just got out of your marriage and you're probably not ready for anything too serious.
BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011
Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
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What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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The fact that she is already contradicting what she said her plan was shows you that she has clouded judgement, IMO.
Yep. It speaks volumes.
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Thank you. Have a good week.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Maybe I'm just odd but I don't meet friends and family members after a few dates. I agree with that too...and I'm sorry but THAT really sounds like "seriousness". After 2 weeks??
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Oh yes, I am going to be doing contrast effect in the form of 30 dates. I won't be exclusive to them and they won't be exclusive to me. Just sayin'....
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What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Maybe I'm just odd but I don't meet friends and family members after a few dates. I agree with that too...and I'm sorry but THAT really sounds like "seriousness". After 2 weeks?? I'm not familiar with that aspect of dating culture either. I met my husbands mother before the first date. I met a high school sweetheart's mother somewhere around the same very early point too. Wasn't a big deal. Neither good nor bad.
Last edited by indiegirl; 01/23/13 05:41 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Indie. Sorry I did not mean to cloud everything by suggesting that you meet his friends and family.
I can remember several times after meeting "the friends" my view of the guy was completely different. So much so that I made it an important part of my screening process. It was my trusted window into seeing the real person when I met the people that he was comfortable surrounding himself with.
Especially if I was starting to feel that I wanted to be exclusive.
That's just my own experience. Wow. You have a lot to think about here.
ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
Recovered
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Hi Indie, I think what several posters are concerned about is that by going into a relationship with artist man too fast (and "too fast" is a relative term), you risk becoming emotionally vulnerable before you've had the time to develop trust with artist man. That's true; if you go too fast, you do risk emotional vulnerability and possible subsequent heartbreak.
In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the essence of living is vulnerability. I would rather risk emotional pain and enjoy the feeling of free-ness that comes with following my heart and becoming vulnerable; I would rather do that than be cautious in a relationship. You survived the break-up of your marriage, and you'll survive the break-up of any dating relationship you're in if it happens.
The vibes I get from you tell me that you can both enjoy an exclusive relationship with artist man and be smart about red flags at the same time. We have discussed this extensively KL ... this is not Dr. Harley's approach. Logic has to be the front runner. There is no such thing as blind trust...and running with your emotions is the wayward path and always leads to heartache. That is a given. It is the ability to slowly process what is in front of you and keep it simple linking the ability that each other have to care for the other in terms of emotional needs. Getting to know if one can meet your emotional needs and will POJA with you takes time ... lots and lots of time. Any other approach of "just follow what feels good" is the road with the most bumps because it establishes a renter mentality. POJA is something many frown upon because a whole bunch of RENTERS are running around. Artist Man has demonstrated he had two long term relationships as a RENTER. Hence ... Indie now you know what level playing field you are on ... he can be a buyer ... but POJA should be the front runner here and the only way he may convert.
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Hi Indie, I think what several posters are concerned about is that by going into a relationship with artist man too fast (and "too fast" is a relative term), you risk becoming emotionally vulnerable before you've had the time to develop trust with artist man. That's true; if you go too fast, you do risk emotional vulnerability and possible subsequent heartbreak.
In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the essence of living is vulnerability. I would rather risk emotional pain and enjoy the feeling of free-ness that comes with following my heart and becoming vulnerable; I would rather do that than be cautious in a relationship. You survived the break-up of your marriage, and you'll survive the break-up of any dating relationship you're in if it happens.
The vibes I get from you tell me that you can both enjoy an exclusive relationship with artist man and be smart about red flags at the same time. Well said. Serious SW ... how long have you been around here? ETA: SW we have extensively had this discussion concerning your situation as well. There are serious red flags with your current marriage, that play out on these boards. Your continued connectivity to your WxH, your Step-Sons, and your husband's WxW. It would be nice if you would allow this true situation of yours play out for Indie while giving her all this support to just "follow her heart". Your situation is not all roses and champagne. There are things given and inherent in your situation that makes it less ideal, so please don't encourage a false sense of ideal for this woman who should be given all the facts, not just the ones with rose colored glasses on ...
Last edited by WalkinForward; 01/23/13 05:50 PM.
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You realize the other guys you were talking to was not dating, right? Unless I am not understanding there have been NO CONTRAST dates? Just want to make sure I didn't miss anything
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Getting to know if one can meet your emotional needs and will POJA with you takes time ... lots and lots of time. Very very good point. I could meet a whole festival of his relatives and still not know as much as time will teach me. The time aspect is everything, imo.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Hi Indie, I think what several posters are concerned about is that by going into a relationship with artist man too fast (and "too fast" is a relative term), you risk becoming emotionally vulnerable before you've had the time to develop trust with artist man. That's true; if you go too fast, you do risk emotional vulnerability and possible subsequent heartbreak.
In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the essence of living is vulnerability. I would rather risk emotional pain and enjoy the feeling of free-ness that comes with following my heart and becoming vulnerable; I would rather do that than be cautious in a relationship. You survived the break-up of your marriage, and you'll survive the break-up of any dating relationship you're in if it happens.
The vibes I get from you tell me that you can both enjoy an exclusive relationship with artist man and be smart about red flags at the same time. We have discussed this extensively KL ... this is not Dr. Harley's approach. Logic has to be the front runner. There is no such thing as blind trust...and running with your emotions is the wayward path and always leads to heartache. That is a given. It is the ability to slowly process what is in front of you and keep it simple linking the ability that each other have to care for the other in terms of emotional needs. Getting to know if one can meet your emotional needs and will POJA with you takes time ... lots and lots of time. Any other approach of "just follow what feels good" is the road with the most bumps because it establishes a renter mentality. POJA is something many frown upon because a whole bunch of RENTERS are running around. Artist Man has demonstrated he had two long term relationships as a RENTER. Hence ... Indie now you know what level playing field you are on ... he can be a buyer ... but POJA should be the front runner here and the only way he may convert. Determining if someone can meet our ENs and if they will POJA does not have to take lots and lots of time. It takes honesty and a willingness to look for honesty or lack of in the other person. She has to be around him to figure that out. If she begins to really like him during that process what is she suppose to do?
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Indie. Sorry I did not mean to cloud everything by suggesting that you meet his friends and family.
I can remember several times after meeting "the friends" my view of the guy was completely different. So much so that I made it an important part of my screening process. It was my trusted window into seeing the real person when I met the people that he was comfortable surrounding himself with.
Especially if I was starting to feel that I wanted to be exclusive.
That's just my own experience. Wow. You have a lot to think about here. Please don't apologise! You know how much I value your opinion and how often you have saved my skin. I think your advice was good. If I met them I may learn something. If I don't there'll be another time. I don't think I DO have a lot to think about. I think I just need the time for things to reveal themselves.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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