EL, what ARE your feelings about the baby? Maybe you have feelings about it or how stupid the wife was to feel bad about the birth, etc. Maybe you want another child and are afraid to admit it.

Are you hiding your own bad feelings about the pregnancy and birth? And lack of a second child that you may want her to have? The first kid possibly ruined your sex life...you maybe feel resentful....somebody here or you needs to face thier true feelings.

I learned one thing. If you feel strongly for or against someones posts, there is an area in your life you need to face. The posts that bothered me the most I had to face truths in myself.

<small>[ November 22, 2004, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Baba,

I have said before that my initial feelings were ones of concern for if it was my son because we had just started seeing each other. I loved my W and felt she would never have lied to me about this and I believed that he was my S. You see, I think you read one of my earlier posts that describes how this situation had happened to me before in my life and the girl decided to have an abortion. Two years after the abortion and her forcing me to believe the baby was mine, I found out it never was mine. So it was understandable that I was skeptical.

I was also a little mad that my W got the birth control pills wrong, which she admitted. However, I did feel ready to have our baby after I got over the initial shock. While she was pregnant, it did not really seem real to me. I cannot explain it, but it was not until I saw my S born, that I felt like I was a dad. The second he came out, I literally felt my life change forever, in a truly positive way. I love that little guy. I am so proud of him.

You see, we actually almost lost him at two years old. He had a very bad febrile seizure and actually stopped breathing. He went into the seizure while I was putting PJs on him after a bath. He went stiff and then fell into my arms. I provided CPR as best I could while my W talked to 911 and guided the ambulance to our house. You realize just how precious life truly is going through this.

You know, I do disagree with our S ruining our sex life. I used to think this way and it did me no good. Then I found MB and actually have spent quite a lot of time staring at my own demons so to speak. I believe it actually started before our S was born, but appeaerd to me to coincide with his birth.

The whole second child thing. Well, would I love a second child, yes. Do I wish to have my W go through the pregnancy and painful delivery again, no. So where does this leave me? I have actually tried to talk about adopting a child and my W wants nothing to do with adopting. My S so very much wants a sibling as well. My dad was an only child and I think only children grow up with a disadvantage. From my very first post two weeks before this monster post started, you called me out on my desire to have another child. Based upon your post I actually went to my W and offered to have an operation. She told me no, not yet because it seemed a bit permanent.

My W tells others publicly that we are not going to have any more children and then with me alone leaves the door open. This cannot be only for my benefit, because I am with her in public when she says we are not having another child.

Look, any issues I have had due to my W originally getting pregnant are long gone and now ok. My issues of building resentment are now coming from 4 years of being rejected, but I kind of was willing to push this to one side. Then this last April, I found MB and tried a "do over" in my mind. However, I find myself continually building this resentment towards the woman I feel is truly the most fantastic woman I have ever met because I cannot understand how someone, no matter how upset or how angry cannot show concern/compassion towards me when she knows she is hurting me. I am certainly trying to show her compassion and concern. Sure I screw up with my wording and I am working on this MOS. But something sticks in my mind from what Managing2 had said. Managing2 asked why my W is appearing to need me to be perfect before she is willing to meet my most important ENs. I think this is a very valid point, of course I would, right? I guess this type of thinking is what gets me more and more frustrated because it is as though she is "making me pay for things" when things have not exactly been rosy for either of us.

Take Care,

EL

Ask your wife why she feels like you need to be nearly perfect before she will "chip in" some effort at showing she loves you, saving the marriage, and improving your communication.

I always ask my husband questions like those. I have learned to ask in a way that will get some good information from him yet not LB or hurt him.

That is a good question.

And let me tell you that your son does not want a little sibling competing for the love. He may think he wants one, but it is not always what it is cracked up to be.

Your wife may feel that desire in you for another baby or adopted child. And she does not apparantly want another one.

If my husband and I each felt differently about that very issue, the have a child issue, it would be hard for me to like him. Since there would be this "struggle between us" on an important issue like family size. Even if it was not talked about, the different opinions would be there under the surface.

What is under the surface in your marriage? Look for all the things you and she do not really agree on. Write em down.....look carefully.

These differences in opinions and beliefs between you two are maybe some of the reason she is "taking things out on you now" which I have no doubt she is because of her underlying hostility.

These things you do not agree on are very important. Even if you do not talk about it these issues are still there.

It is difficult to properly handle "differences of opinion" in a marriage. You can ignore them leading to underlying resentment and lack of passion. You can face them and talk about them and agree to disagree. You can face them in counseling and the counselor can give advice on what to do.

But they need to somehow be dredged up and brought out (from the depths) into the open. Otherwise, they become like sores that never heal. Sores that tear away at the "once healthy" crust protecting your marriage.

<small>[ November 22, 2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Baba,

Not trying to DJ here, but if I asked my W this question, she would answer with an "I don't know."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And let me tell you that your son does not want a little sibling competing for the love. He may think he wants one, but it is not always what it is cracked up to be.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am well aware of this as my only brother (11 months younger than me) and I never ended up close because of sibling rivalry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If my husband and I each felt differently about that very issue, the have a child issue, it would be hard for me to like him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not to start trouble, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , but, don't you think your statement is a wee bit on the unfair side and a bit controling? Claiming that your spouse has to have the same opinion as you or you won't like him?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is under the surface in your marriage? Look for all the things you and she do not really agree on. Write em down.....look carefully.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought I have been doing this. I do not get what you are after here. I feel like this is all I ever do in my search for the holy grail - "a happy M."

Something interesting is that after last night, my W seems to be acting really nice towards me. She called and was really upbeat. If I were forced to, I could draw a close relationship to my W being nice towards me when I show resistance or anger with our current marital relationship.

The funny thing is that I have shown her this anger/frustration over the last four years, prior to my finding MB this April and it did not seem to get us very far. Do you think in some subconcious way my W is rewarding any angry or frustrated behavior on my part to get me to fall back into a pattern from the past, because our dysfunctional past is what is more comfortable for her right now? Or, do you think I have just been hit in the head with too many MB 2x4s?

Take Care,

EL

Things we don't agree on like he likes coffee and I like tea are nothing.

But things like "he wants me to have a baby or adopt and raise one for 21 years" and I don't want that lifestyle are so much different.

I would be angry at my husband for wanting me to produce a baby for him when I did not want one. In fact I would question the entire relationship if he knew I did not want a child yet he did.

So it is the degree of importance of the "disagreement on the issue" that counts.

There could be important issues you disagree on just festering there.

But I hate to say this and it is not your fault, but I think your wife has "left the building" here. If she is not willing to think or be open to what is wrong, then she is the problem. If she says "I do not know" to anything deep or any important question you want to ask her then there is no way you can get past her wall to get to know the real her. She is smart enough to be able to figure herself out if she wants to. She uses that statement to shut you down and keep you at bay.

She won't let you past the wall that keeps her away from you. It is no wonder she does not want sex. Since she has that emotional brick wall up there whenever you try and get emotionally close. She is content to be cold, resentful, blame you, and stay far away from you emotionally.

This is really sad.

Yes, but the Million dollar question is: "How do I get through the wall?"

This is what I need/want. I have a feeling that once I get through this wall, even a little crack in it, all kinds of emotions will come flooding out. However, I just do not know how to get through it. Do I drive through it? Do I continue the slow path I am on hoping that eventually a small crack starts to form? Do I wait a million years for the wall to decay? These are all of the extremes. Sometimes I think that driving right through the wall is what it will take and I try this. My W cries, I feel like I've gotten through for a brief moment and then we return to "normal" momentarily.

Other times I try to meet her ENs, improve myself and feel as though the wall will never crack. I get frustrated and shoot spit balls at the foundation of this great wall, only to find myself more frustrated.

I have even tried waiting for the mortar in the wall to crack. This does not do any good other than help to drive me slowly insane.

So, tell me Baba, what is the answer? I do know the woman behind the wall is worth it. I do know I still love her. I do think she somehow deep down wants me to break through, but does not know how to guide me to do it. She has mentioned many times that she does not know what is wrong, especially with her and she wished she did so we would not have our issues.

What am I to do? I even forced myself to actually think outside the box, when I found MB. This helped me to see things in a different light and actually see some of my own damaging behavior for the first time in my life. I felt like all of a sudden I was looking at a new World. A very unfamiliar World. I felt shame, lonliness, sadness, stupidity, selfconcious, anger, frustration, resentment and I was scared.

Thanks,

EL

That wall would be tough. I will think about this. I have not had a relationship where I had walls to break down except a few small ones in this marriage. I bang away at the walls and even if I hurt him a little, I get through somewhat.

But this may not work for you.

See if you can write up a contract like has been suggested to HOLD in the last few posts to him. But what would it say???

Extremely Lost

Good morning and welcome back. I hope this means your work load has gone from absolutely crazy to just ‘busy.’ I know you’re a hard working guy!

As usual, I’m going to side step around the post traumatic stress syndrome and child birth issue. The reason is that, if that’s the case – and I see that to be a pretty big if, you’re just going to have to wait for her to tell you that it is and get help. Nothing you are going to be able to do will be likely to successfully draw it out of her. She might not even know it is since I imagine there would be substantial resistance for a mother to say something like that as it might imply she regrets the birth of your son. Uhm.. let me clarify. I’m saying it’s hard to admit something like that because she wouldn’t want OTHER people to think she regrets having your son not because she actually does. I fully believe that she is 100% honest when she says he’s the best thing that ever happened to her. Just about every mother I’ve ever met feels that way about her children – the details of the pregnancy and birth not with standing.

Now, as for the rest of the slipping backwards feeling that you have, I suspect that some of that has happened, but probably not for the reasons you might be thinking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She just sat there. Then she said, "I am beginning to think that this is typical. Its about my upcoming trip. You always try and pick a fight with me just before I am on a trip alone. I can just forget the whole thing and come back with you and S." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suspect that her upcoming trip is on her mind a lot. I think that she might sense some of your feelings of loneliness and, while you certainly can relate to the reasons (you don’t expect her to make merry while her mother is in surgery), it’s natural for you to want to concentrate on family during this family time of year. Personally, I think she’s bounced back into withdrawal a bit because she’s worried. First and foremost, I imagine she’s worried about her mother. Second, I imagine she’s worried about you and your reaction to her going home. Traditionally, that has been a bit of a sore spot between you. Wasn’t your first post regarding her interacting with people from her home town?

Try to reframe this as a protective action on her part rather than a hostile one.

Now, as for what you can do about it – you can work very hard to be supportive and not react the way you would in the past. I think that your statement here:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "That is not fair. This has nothing to do with your upcoming trip. I am completely fine with your trip. I certainly was not looking to pick a fight with you. I would prefer to never fight with you." I let things drop. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..was actually very honest and very direct. I can easily see why she would be ‘nicer’ to you the next day. You may not recognize it as such, but I can see that it is very different from what you would have said in the past. It might not be different in your intent but it is very different from the way and choice of words you would have used. I’d find that statement to be something I could easily live with.

Next, try not to look at it as:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Something interesting is that after last night, my W seems to be acting really nice towards me. She called and was really upbeat. If I were forced to, I could draw a close relationship to my W being nice towards me when I show resistance or anger with our current marital relationship. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">…showing resistance and anger, try to reframe it as being honest about your needs. Now, you did make a couple of selfish demands and you weren’t perfect in your delivery (I’ll leave why as an exercise for the student) but this seems counter to your belief that she requires perfection to respond to your needs. I think she’s trying to respond to your needs by being nice. Now, if we can only change the way you ask for your needs to be met from “showing resistance or anger” to “being assertively, radically honest” we’ll have a good working system.

Once again, I think you’re taking this withdrawal a little too personally. I think it has more to do with how she generally handles stressful situations (by withdrawing into her self and doing things like watching TV to cope rather than talking things out) than her feelings changing. The focus is OFF your relationship for the present. Perhaps that is what you are worried about. Is it? If so, how much focus do you think she should put on your relationship versus taking care of her ill mother? How easy do you think it should be for her to do both at one time? Is it possible that you are underestimating the emotional upheaval she is feeling about her mother (easy to do because she’s not a talker)? Or, is it possible you are over estimating her ability to focus on her mother AND your relationship at the same time?

What are some things you can do for yourself to minimize your frustration? This is a bit of an ongoing problem. When you get frustrated, you look for external means to solve your frustration – you want your wife to change her behavior so you aren’t so frustrated. There are times that you just have to self calm your own frustration and this seems like a good example. So, what strategies do you have in place to do that?

Mys

Hey guys,

Baba - Yeah, for a long time I have felt that there is a very large and solid wall that my W has built. I have tried to talk to her about this and get through it, but do not feel I have had success. It makes me feel as though getting through this wall is going to take a drastic and emotional issue that is potentially life altering. I think only something this big possibly will create a crack in the dam.

Mys -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Good morning and welcome back. I hope this means your work load has gone from absolutely crazy to just ‘busy.’ I know you’re a hard working guy!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks, and good morning to you as well. My work load is down slightly from where it was.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I suspect that her upcoming trip is on her mind a lot. I think that she might sense some of your feelings of loneliness and, while you certainly can relate to the reasons (you don’t expect her to make merry while her mother is in surgery), it’s natural for you to want to concentrate on family during this family time of year. Personally, I think she’s bounced back into withdrawal a bit because she’s worried. First and foremost, I imagine she’s worried about her mother. Second, I imagine she’s worried about you and your reaction to her going home. Traditionally, that has been a bit of a sore spot between you. Wasn’t your first post regarding her interacting with people from her home town? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I am sure her mom's surgery is predominantly on her mind. She has had nightmares about her surgery this week. I am going to try very hard to not impact her trip negatively. I have been pretty good for a couple of trips now and it has not seemed to make a difference. This personally frustrates me because even if I do not react poorly, she says things that make me feel as though in her mind, I still reacted poorly towards her trips. I feel like no matter how I react, she does not feel differently. Also, the difficult thing is she does not tell me that a certain trip has been better, when I have put a very big effort into making it better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Try to reframe this as a protective action on her part rather than a hostile one. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not see it as hostile. However, I do see it as typical and this is what frustrates me because she must know how it continually hurts me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ..was actually very honest and very direct. I can easily see why she would be ‘nicer’ to you the next day. You may not recognize it as such, but I can see that it is very different from what you would have said in the past. It might not be different in your intent but it is very different from the way and choice of words you would have used. I’d find that statement to be something I could easily live with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, I'll take your word for it. You are right, I really do not feel like I have been saying anything different.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> …showing resistance and anger, try to reframe it as being honest about your needs. Now, you did make a couple of selfish demands and you weren’t perfect in your delivery (I’ll leave why as an exercise for the student) but this seems counter to your belief that she requires perfection to respond to your needs. I think she’s trying to respond to your needs by being nice. Now, if we can only change the way you ask for your needs to be met from “showing resistance or anger” to “being assertively, radically honest” we’ll have a good working system.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I was not perfect in my delivery and did use selfish demands. I realized that we had not had a "discussion" in over two weeks and my MB radar was a little rusty. I soon realized this and choose my words more carefully. I also did tell her that I was not happy with some of the things I had said to her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Once again, I think you’re taking this withdrawal a little too personally. I think it has more to do with how she generally handles stressful situations (by withdrawing into her self and doing things like watching TV to cope rather than talking things out) than her feelings changing. The focus is OFF your relationship for the present. Perhaps that is what you are worried about. Is it? If so, how much focus do you think she should put on your relationship versus taking care of her ill mother? How easy do you think it should be for her to do both at one time? Is it possible that you are underestimating the emotional upheaval she is feeling about her mother (easy to do because she’s not a talker)? Or, is it possible you are over estimating her ability to focus on her mother AND your relationship at the same time?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, the current way she handles stress is not conducive to a healthy M. I need for her to develop a more "healthy" method for her and our M. Yes, I am concerned about the lack of attention on us. I am not saying that her mom having surgery should not take up most of her time. I am saying that any trauma throughout life should never envelop someone to the point that they do not maintain a healthy M. Unfortunately, this happens way too often and is one of the reasons this board is necessary. I can offer my W some space so she can deal with her mom's surgery, after her mom's surgery she feels she needs to deal with her brother and their family, then she feels like the home owner's board, of which she has just been elected Vice-President, needs a large amount of her focus. Throughout all of this, she has decided she wants to sell a certain product, the kind that women throw thoughs parties for things, like Tastefully Simple, or makeup products. She also is concerned with our S's latest rebelious phase he is going through at 4.5 years old. My point here, and I know it makes me sound harsh and selfish, is that she seems to continuously have a tragedy to constantly put in front of us. This has been the case for a very long time. This is why I come across as uncaring, inconsiderate or cold when I say that I feel nothing should get in the way of improving our M. I come across this way because I am constantly being presented with situations that I must balance between care for me being even a little happy versus my W solving the next crisis for everyone else. One of the things that really hurts is that my W is a person that sees a crisis and has to jump in and stomp it out for everything and everyone else in her life, except when it comes to her own M. This helps to make me feel very much less important to her or that she takes me for granted. These feelings are compounded by the my W not sharing her emotional feelings through talking with me. She seems to get irritated and uptight whenever I try to discuss anything about our M. So, based upon these actions, I am ultimately concerned that we are just continuing to follow the status quo of our current relationship and remain stagnant and pushed behind the next "convienent" crisis that arrises.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What are some things you can do for yourself to minimize your frustration? This is a bit of an ongoing problem. When you get frustrated, you look for external means to solve your frustration – you want your wife to change her behavior so you aren’t so frustrated. There are times that you just have to self calm your own frustration and this seems like a good example. So, what strategies do you have in place to do that?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Other than actively choose to ignore reality, I do not know what I can really do to eliminate my frustrations. Last night we worked around the house. My W did some painting of some rooms. She wanted to do this herself and had me do some other things. The extremely frustrating thing is my knowing that the real woman inside my W is stuck way down deep somewhere and I can't get her out.

Thanks,

EL

EL, maybe just maybe it is time for you to take action in the way of the "180"....

She might be the type that does not appreciate you until you are almost gone!

Baba,

Ya know, I have contemplated this for a long time. I feel I have, in some ways, actually tried this to some extent. When I went for just over a year of not asking for anything physical and doing things on my own. This did not help and I felt as though she probably was feeling like, 'finally, he is not bugging me anymore, life is good.' I do feel deep down that if I do a 180, then my W is stubborn enough to push us further apart create some acceptable excuses in her mind that justify the end of our M.

I am constantly considering and re-evaluating my position on us and the M. I definitely do not want to be a weak individual that was just lead around by the nose for years and years. However, I do not want to pull the plug too early either. Therefore, I am closely analyzing where I am at on a daily basis, which I understand some would feel is too much and unhealthy. However, I see the whole process for me as:

1) Reckognize what my own actions are that foster a poor relationship. (3 months: April 15 - July 15)

2) Learn how to improve my actions to allow these actions to contribute towards a wonderful and healthy M instead of tearing what was a healthy M into the ground. (On going, started April 15 - present)


3) Meet my W's ENs and learn to communicated better with M. Use MC to help this process. (On going: May - Present)

4) After a legitimate time doing #3 and getting no where, move onto 180. I feel that I must try and define "legitimate time." However, I also know that our bodies are incredible message boards for ourselves if we know how to listen to them. I believe I will know when the time is right to move in this direction, but for now, I could not define an exacting time scale.

5) If 180 does not help situation, seperation is most likely the next step. I do feel that the time spent on item #4, is not going to be as long as item #3 because I will be entering #4 already being fed up enough with the situation to try a 180. Therefore, I would think if after a couple of months doing a 180, if there are no positive responses then I will move on to the seperation.

6) If seperation is not helping towards being enough of a wakeup call towards improving our M, the last decision is divorce and moving on with my life. I have promised myself that I owe it to myself to be happy. I will once again be happy in life. For me, being in seperation, it will take me a while to get to the divorce process because I have done this once already and am sickened by even thinking of it.

So, you see, I do have a plan. My constant re-evaluation of where I am at is part of my trying to figure out if I have gotten rid of enough poor behavior to justify that I have met my w's ENs for enough time that I should have seen more of a positive response. Defining this time period and when this is will be most difficult. Like I said above, it will most likely take a combination of my body telling me it is time, and my mind having suffered one too many dissapointments after having given her what I would have felt at this point as too many chances to step up.

Let me know what you think. Did I miss anything?

EL

Extremely Lost

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Thanks, and good morning to you as well. My work load is down slightly from where it was. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m glad to hear it. I am rolling up my sleeves in preparation for fixing my first holiday dinner in our new home. I’m looking way forward to it, even though it will be a huge feast just for 2 of us! (We’re worth it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Which is a good thing because we’ll be eating it all next month. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, I am sure her mom's surgery is predominantly on her mind. She has had nightmares about her surgery this week. I am going to try very hard to not impact her trip negatively. I have been pretty good for a couple of trips now and it has not seemed to make a difference. This personally frustrates me because even if I do not react poorly, she says things that make me feel as though in her mind, I still reacted poorly towards her trips. I feel like no matter how I react, she does not feel differently. Also, the difficult thing is she does not tell me that a certain trip has been better, when I have put a very big effort into making it better. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, I’m beginning to wonder if communication (conversation) isn’t your top EN instead of SF - possibly in the specific area of feedback on your relationship. What do you think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do not see it as hostile. However, I do see it as typical and this is what frustrates me because she must know how it continually hurts me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hrm. This is a difficult issue. On the one hand, it’s possibly an annoying habit (LB) and on the other it might just be a genuine facet of her personality. There’s a fine line that exists between avoiding LB’s and abandoning all the strategies you’ve used your entire life to deal with stress. Do you know what I mean?

For example, my H is one of those people who does NOT work through stress by talking. In fact, sitting around talking makes it more stressful and WORSE for him. Instead, he uses strenuous physical activity to cope. I prefer to talk things out. So, when we’re going through something that is jointly stressful, we get into this cute little dance where he’s trying to avoid getting more stress by talking and wander off to the gym to work out and I’m trying to sit down and talk about things. He doesn’t do it to annoy or hurt me, he does it because that’s what he needs to do to off load stress. I don’t try to talk things out with him because I want to make things worse for him, I do it because that’s how I emotionally process things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OK, I'll take your word for it. You are right, I really do not feel like I have been saying anything different. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The purpose of your message has not changed. Your delivery has changed substantially.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know I was not perfect in my delivery and did use selfish demands. I realized that we had not had a "discussion" in over two weeks and my MB radar was a little rusty. I soon realized this and choose my words more carefully. I also did tell her that I was not happy with some of the things I had said to her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, and I was happy to see you apologized.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, the current way she handles stress is not conducive to a healthy M. I need for her to develop a more "healthy" method for her and our M. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Be a little careful here. Part of it is that the marriage has to flex around HER needs. Dealing with stress is a highly personal issue. Certainly, there are things that you should ask her to do to help you flex to her, but I’m not sure that asking her to completely change all of her reactions which have worked for her over the years is realistic. Unfortunately NOW is not a good time to ask. Taking away someone’s life boat when they feel like they’re sinking is never a good idea. Make some notes about what, specifically, would make things easier for you and let’s you and I talk about some ways to turn those into non-accusatory thoughtful requests.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, I am concerned about the lack of attention on us. I am not saying that her mom having surgery should not take up most of her time. I am saying that any trauma throughout life should never envelop someone to the point that they do not maintain a healthy M. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see maintenance of a healthy marriage very different from working on fixing a troubled one. Maintenance requires much less focus and energy than fixing a troubled one.

I also tend to feel a bit differently than you do. For example, my H and I have agreed (POJA’d) stressful periods of time that we were NOT working on the relationship and even were going to focus on getting ourselves through it (as individuals) rather than focus on meeting all but some basic marital needs. One example is this previous move. Neither one of us was in an emotional place to give much to the other. We were both tired, short on sleep, uprooted, cranky, and generally out of sorts. It wasn’t a good time to try to be around each other in a forced setting. We needed to agree not to expect much from each other in order to get through it then, on the other side, agree to focus back on each other.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Unfortunately, this happens way too often and is one of the reasons this board is necessary. I can offer my W some space so she can deal with her mom's surgery, after her mom's surgery she feels she needs to deal with her brother and their family, then she feels like the home owner's board, of which she has just been elected Vice-President, needs a large amount of her focus. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no idea what’s up with her brother, et all, but I do agree that you need to get your marriage on that short list. Right now, it makes sense for her to focus on your mother’s surgery. For one thing, it’s a short term problem. She’s not going to be in surgery for the next year – we’re talking a few weeks, right? After that, I think it’s important that you assert your opinion on what takes priority. So, while that doesn’t mean that she shouldn’t help her brother or be involved with the committee those are different issues that take a long term commitment. Your marriage needs to fit WITH those things. Those are very different from a short term, intensive, emergency kind of situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My point here, and I know it makes me sound harsh and selfish, is that she seems to continuously have a tragedy to constantly put in front of us. This has been the case for a very long time. This is why I come across as uncaring, inconsiderate or cold when I say that I feel nothing should get in the way of improving our M. I come across this way because I am constantly being presented with situations that I must balance between care for me being even a little happy versus my W solving the next crisis for everyone else. One of the things that really hurts is that my W is a person that sees a crisis and has to jump in and stomp it out for everything and everyone else in her life, except when it comes to her own M. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don’t think you sound cold or uncaring. But there is a big difference between saying “Everything should not come before our marriage.” and saying “NOTHING is important enough to come before our marriage no matter how short term it might be.” Please understand, I’d feel very different about this if it involved say.. long term care for her mother. But, again, we’re talking about this ONE issue being very important in the short term – short term referring to a few weeks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> These feelings are compounded by the my W not sharing her emotional feelings through talking with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Clarify something for me. Does your wife talk about her emotions in other areas – her fears, worries, concerns, etc about her mom, for instance? Or, are you specifically referring to your marriage?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She seems to get irritated and uptight whenever I try to discuss anything about our M. So, based upon these actions, I am ultimately concerned that we are just continuing to follow the status quo of our current relationship and remain stagnant and pushed behind the next "convienent" crisis that arrises. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All right, Extremely Lost, do you really feel her mother’s surgery is a convenient crisis? If you do, then why did you give what seemed to be enthusiastic support for her being there? I’m a wee bit confused. It sounds as though you’re snowballing this one instance and projecting it so far forward and into so many other experiences that there is no way for your wife to win here. As near as I can tell, you’ve explicitly verbalized your support, understanding, and belief that your wife should be there and should help. At the same time, you seem to be building up resentment because, in order to do that, she needs to shift her focus away from the marriage and the marriage problems.

What gives?

What did you expect to happen? What did you mean when you said it was a good idea? What were your expectations for her behavior? What indications do you have that once this crisis is over, she will be unwilling to focus back on your marriage? Did I miss a post?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Other than actively choose to ignore reality, I do not know what I can really do to eliminate my frustrations. Last night we worked around the house. My W did some painting of some rooms. She wanted to do this herself and had me do some other things. The extremely frustrating thing is my knowing that the real woman inside my W is stuck way down deep somewhere and I can't get her out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is the painting relevant or is that just informational about what you were doing?

Well, I’ll admit that I’m a wee bit confused about your frustration. I can relate to feeling lonely and even somewhat abandoned because she’s not going to be around during some of the holidays. I understand your confusion at the way she copes with stress. But, it doesn’t sound as though she’s radically changed the way she does that (deals with stress) or that you don’t understand that she’s under considerable stress and why.

I suppose I’m a bit perplexed about what you thought was going to happen when you decided to enthusiastically support her in this endeavor? Because, I don’t even know her, and I’m not even a little surprised.

Mys

Happy Thanksgiving to all,

I hope you all had a wonderful weekend. I am sorry I have not had a chance to write for a while, I got really busy again. Then we had to go away last Thursday. We did a 3.5 hour drive in 6 hours on Thursday to my Dad's. Then Friday we drove another 1.5 hours to my W's Dad's. Then on Saturday we drove another hour to my W's Mom's. On Sunday (yesterday) my S and I drove back 5 hours to home.

This is the week that my W's Mom is having major surgery on Tuesday. I know this is going to sound selfish, but I need help through this week emotionally because it is just me and my little one. My W is going to be up by her Mom's for probably a week or longer. I can understand my W wanting to be around her Mom throughout these trying times. I am just having a hard time with it because our R is not even close to being on track. I know it is probably the opposite, but I feel as though we cannot get better unless we are around each other. I feel with my W being gone, we can only get worse, and this makes me sad and emotional.

OK, now I know my W has been looking forward to being at her Mom's house. I know she has been talking to a girl friend she has not seen in a while (since our wedding). Last Wednesday, I asked my W if she was going to meet with her girl friend, because she had mentioned a week before that maybe we could all meet up with her. She said, "Oh, I don't know, maybe I will meet up with her at some point." Trying to be supportive with my "new perspective" on my trust issues and how they make me look controlling, I then said, "I hope you get to meet up with X because you have not seen her in a long time and I know you would have fun." My W then said, "Yeah, it would be nice. X and I have talked about going out one of the nights I was there." This kind of shocked me because she did not volunteer this at all and had obviously organized a "night out" at least a week earlier. I felt very bad because I felt like my W was keeping things from me and this hurt. After a couple of days of thinking about this, while we were doing a lot of driving in seperate vehicles, I realized that I sometimes do the same thing. I pick my moments when I think it is best to tell my W some things and I do not think this is necessarily right. Anyway, on Friday, my W mentions to me that her friend and her planned to maybe see a band that her friends boyfriend manages. Now, I know my W had not talked to her friend in over a week. So the fact that there was even more information that she did not offer previously really hurt. I sucked things up and tried to not let my emotions get the better of me. When we left yesterday, I said to my W, "I hope you get a chance to see your friend." She said, "Yeah, I hope I get a chance, but I do not know if I will." Knowing my W, she is definitely going to meet up with her friend. With what she said, "I really feel like she takes me for a dope. This is one of the things that is wheighing heavily on my mind."

Also, last Wednesday, since we were leaving the next day and I knew I would not get another chance until to ask until mid-December, while laying in bed, asked my W if we could make out. She said, "no. " I said, "OK." She said, "So now you are going to be mad at me." I said, "No, I am not mad." I blew it off and just watched TV, even though my heart was ripped out. I know she is stressing over her Mom, but all the plans are set. Her Mom's surgery was almost a week away and this was the last night we had together in our bed for a while. We have been physical once this year, and that was it. I did not even ask for the full montey, just to make out. I said, "Can we atleast hold hands?" We held hands for about 20 seconds and then her hand was getting hot, so I said, "Look, you do not have to hold my hand if you do not want to." She said, "Its just that my hand is getting hot from your hand." I said, "OK."

Another interesting thing I picked up. I am a romantic person. My W has not really shown a lot of what I would call "romantic" personality. She likes to come across as tough and not too sensitive. Basically, we were visiting with one of her family members at their house and the end to a sappy movie was on. My W teared up. I thought this was wonderful because she was actually showing emotion. Just thought I would mention that.

Anyway, so we leave my W at her Mom's on Sunday at around 11:30 AM. I get a quick hug and kiss from her and do not push for more. She asks for us to call when we get home. We call her at 5:45 PM to let her know we got home. She was at a resturaunt with her Mom, step dad and his parents. She spoke with our son for about 2 minutes, got on the phone with me for about 2 minutes and then said, "Well, the food is here so I'll go. I'll talk to you guys later." With this I said, "Well, I know you are busy. I am not going to try and call you because you will be on a weird schedule. I'll wait for you to call us when you can. good-bye." She said, "OK, good-bye." My S and I went on with our evening. He started to feel sick later on. He also would not go to sleep. He stayed up until 12:30 AM because he thought Mommy would call and say good night. She never did.

I had a meeting this morning and during this meeting my W called. I told her I was in a meeting and would have to call her back. After the meeting I called her back and she seemed too busy. I told her that Jordan did not go to sleep until late because he was thinking mommy would call to say good night. She got mad and said, "Why would he think that?" I said, "I did not say you would call to say good night. But, I did think you would call to say good night." She said, "Fine so now I have to call every night to say good night!" I said, "You do not have to call every night to say good night. You can do whatever you want to do." She then said, "Its not a matter of doing what I want to do. I am going to have to call you back. I am trying to drive and we are lost right now." I said, "OK, good-bye."

I am hurt and upset with her. How can she say these things. I mean, how thoughtless is it of her to not pick up the phone and just say good night to her 4 year old. I mean, really, is it that much trouble? Am I wrong for being upset about this? I told her S had a cold last night and this morning. She did not seem too interested. What the heck is going on. Am I the only one here who sees her actions as cold? I mean even someone with the smallest amount of love in their heart would atleast call, right?

Feeling Blue,

EL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hope you all had a wonderful weekend. I am sorry I have not had a chance to write for a while, I got really busy again. Then we had to go away last Thursday. We did a 3.5 hour drive in 6 hours on Thursday to my Dad's. Then Friday we drove another 1.5 hours to my W's Dad's. Then on Saturday we drove another hour to my W's Mom's. On Sunday (yesterday) my S and I drove back 5 hours to home. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. I enjoyed the weekend very much. It was nice for us to actually be HOME in our own place (we’ve spent the last 2 holiday seasons on the road). It was quiet and cozy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is the week that my W's Mom is having major surgery on Tuesday. I know this is going to sound selfish, but I need help through this week emotionally because it is just me and my little one. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Emotional support? No problem, that’s the name of this board, after all!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am just having a hard time with it because our R is not even close to being on track. I know it is probably the opposite, but I feel as though we cannot get better unless we are around each other. I feel with my W being gone, we can only get worse, and this makes me sad and emotional. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, whether it’s beneficial or not, it seems NECESSARY for your W to be there – if not practically because your MIL needs the help, emotionally because that’s her mother and she might not forgive herself otherwise. So, since there isn’t a way to get around it, you may as well consider some of the more positive points of her absence. For one thing, it gives you BOTH a break of working on the relationship. For 1 week or so, you can concentrate on other things – quality time with your son, that book you’ve been meaning to read, reaching out to other people on this board. For another, it will give you some perspective on the situation. You have one week where you don’t have to worry about guessing her reactions. Take some time off. Let her take care of business at your MIL’s, be interested and listen to her but don’t revolve your schedule around hers.

Next, sometimes it’s harder to focus when something is hanging over you. Getting this over with (since, it is necessary) means it gets it behind you. So, this is the beginning of the end. And, finally, while I do believe it is important that you and your W spend time together to fix your marriage, one or two weeks for something this important, is unlikely to negatively impact your marriage that much.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When we left yesterday, I said to my W, "I hope you get a chance to see your friend." She said, "Yeah, I hope I get a chance, but I do not know if I will." Knowing my W, she is definitely going to meet up with her friend. With what she said, "I really feel like she takes me for a dope. This is one of the things that is wheighing heavily on my mind." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You lost me with the ‘feel like a dope’ comment. I get the impression that you told your wife you hope she meets up with her friend but, really, you somehow didn’t mean it.

Sort me out. Which is it? Do you want her to meet with her friend or not? If not, why not? And, if not, why did you say you did? I understand you wanting to be supportive, but HONESTY is good. Lying about things you don’t feel is a bad idea.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I said, "No, I am not mad." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WERE you mad? How were you feeling?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He started to feel sick later on. He also would not go to sleep. He stayed up until 12:30 AM because he thought Mommy would call and say good night. She never did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aww.. poor little guy. Is he better today?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had a meeting this morning and during this meeting my W called. I told her I was in a meeting and would have to call her back. After the meeting I called her back and she seemed too busy. I told her that Jordan did not go to sleep until late because he was thinking mommy would call to say good night. She got mad and said, "Why would he think that?" I said, "I did not say you would call to say good night. But, I did think you would call to say good night." She said, "Fine so now I have to call every night to say good night!" I said, "You do not have to call every night to say good night. You can do whatever you want to do." She then said, "Its not a matter of doing what I want to do. I am going to have to call you back. I am trying to drive and we are lost right now." I said, "OK, good-bye." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All right, time for problem solving mode. It seems as though the true problem is that your son expected your wife to call. So, there are two potential solutions. One is that your wife calls every night which she seems reluctant to do. The other is that your son’s expectations are managed appropriately. When you speak next, why not suggest that if calling is going to be a problem, you can tell your son not to wait up, “Mommy is busy taking care of Grandma who is very sick right now but she loves you and will talk to you when she can.” Or, she can tell him if she feels better about that. That way, he won’t feel badly that she didn’t call and she doesn’t have to worry about that in addition to what she needs to do. She is still WELCOME to call, of course, but your son (at 4) is plenty old enough to understand that sick people need care and attention.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am hurt and upset with her. How can she say these things. I mean, how thoughtless is it of her to not pick up the phone and just say good night to her 4 year old. I mean, really, is it that much trouble? Am I wrong for being upset about this? I told her S had a cold last night and this morning. She did not seem too interested. What the heck is going on. Am I the only one here who sees her actions as cold? I mean even someone with the smallest amount of love in their heart would atleast call, right? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you’re over reacting a tiny bit. I think your wife needs this time to concentrate on HER MOTHER. YES, your son is very, very important to her but a cold vs. surgery… and, besides, it’s not unreasonable or unrealistic for her to expect you to be able to take care of your son and his cold. Look at it as a vote of confidence. She has enough on her plate right now that I DO feel it’s unreasonable for you to keep trying to pull her back to her home front responsibilities. If I were her, I’d feel pulled and very, very overwhelmed and annoyed at the situation. The tone of your described conversations sounds a bit too guilt tripish to me. I think you’ll get more mileage out of sounding like you miss her and hope she comes home soon but demonstrating that the home fires are tended and you’ll be all right while she does what she needs to do.

*colors you day-glo orange instead of blue*

Mys

Hey Mys,

I am glad you had a good weekend.

I do not have a problem with my W being gone, provided she at least would show us that she misses us and cares about us. This may seem like a strong statement, but I do not think it is too strong. For instance, speaking to her on the phone for 2 minutes each and her not calling later that night to even say good night. I personally feel this is just something you do because you care about your H and your S. I would do this if roles were reversed. Besides, all she was doing was hanging out with her Mom at her Mom's house.

You did not really get into my feelings on her setting up going out with her girlfriend. Do I take this as you feel I should just not even go there?

You mentioned telling her the truth, but, I have to relearn what is normal to feel with respects to this situation. What I feel as "normal" feelings, apparently is not what should be felt. Right now, I feel my W should call every night. I would hope she longs to hear from us as much as we long to hear from her. I also feel uncomfortable with her going out on the upcomming night with her girlfriend because she does not really desire to go out with me like this anymore. Deep down, I have a fear that she is going to find some guy, while out, and think they come with less baggage than her current family and become attracted to him. However, I realize, I cannot control my W and can only control myself. I am frustrated because of this. My W does not give me support for my tring to change or get better because she demands that this is how I should have been all along. Therefore, I will not get support for my feelings that she considers wrong. This makes me hurt because I truly am changing. However, she needs to be accepting of my efforts to change, open to how hard it really is to change and supportive through my more difficult times. This is not the case, nor is it going to be the case. I feel I am loosing her, or probably have already lost her.

I am hurt from the latest and constant rejection. I still do not understand how she can continue to knowingly choose to hurt me, when she understands that I have been so open to flipping my life around for her.

I know there are a lot of DJs here, be kind with the 2x4.

I am going to have to talk to her on the phone later tonight. I do not know what to say to her. I know she feels I am laying a guilt trip on her. This is in part because I am actually insulted that she does not desire to talk to me on the phone while she is away, as much as she would , say her sister, when she is home. I believe we should try to talk atleast once a day while we are a part. We both used to feel like this earlier in our R. Now, she is showing me signs that she is annoyed with even feeling like she should give us a call. To me this is a very bad sign and one that shows me I have actually lost her.

I do not know what to do, other than feel hurt and miserable. I am trying to have fun with our S, but I cannot help feeling angry towards W.

Thanks,

EL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do not have a problem with my W being gone, provided she at least would show us that she misses us and cares about us. This may seem like a strong statement, but I do not think it is too strong. For instance, speaking to her on the phone for 2 minutes each and her not calling later that night to even say good night. I personally feel this is just something you do because you care about your H and your S. I would do this if roles were reversed. Besides, all she was doing was hanging out with her Mom at her Mom's house. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, Ok, I understand your feelings but what did you agree to do before hand? If you’re expecting her to have this figured out because ‘it’s the right thing to do’ then you’re way, way over into DJ territory and it’s not a realistic expectation.

AND, what are HER feelings about calling you every night? Is she enthusiastic about it?

I understand how you feel about it, what I don’t have a good handle on is how she feels about it or what she plans to do – what you two agreed upon before hand. If your answer is that you didn’t discuss it, then…. well..I don’t think it’s unreasonable for her to ‘play it by ear’ and for you to expect whatever that turns out to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You did not really get into my feelings on her setting up going out with her girlfriend. Do I take this as you feel I should just not even go there? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tried to. I’m just confused about your feeling. On the one hand, I hear you saying “I hope you get to meet with your friend.” On the other hand, I hear you say “I just KNOW she’s going to meet up with her friend.” If I took your words at face value (which is not a bad strategy) then my assumption would be that you are saying “Oh goodie! She’s going to meet up with her friend and I’m so GLAD.” But, I sensed that was not REALLY what you meant.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also feel uncomfortable with her going out on the upcomming night with her girlfriend because she does not really desire to go out with me like this anymore. Deep down, I have a fear that she is going to find some guy, while out, and think they come with less baggage than her current family and become attracted to him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, I’m hearing you say that you’re feeling a little jealous. I think this is a normal feeling. Now, let’s talk about honesty. I don’t think there is anything wrong with ASKING (nicely) your wife to do something like that with you in the future. ”Honey, I understand you’re excited about going out with <girlfriend>. It sounds like a fun evening. What are the chances you and I could do that sometime when you get back?” Would something like that help you be more enthusiastic about her going? If so, ASK.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> However, I realize, I cannot control my W and can only control myself. I am frustrated because of this. My W does not give me support for my tring to change or get better because she demands that this is how I should have been all along. Therefore, I will not get support for my feelings that she considers wrong. This makes me hurt because I truly am changing. However, she needs to be accepting of my efforts to change, open to how hard it really is to change and supportive through my more difficult times. This is not the case, nor is it going to be the case. I feel I am loosing her, or probably have already lost her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Meaning that you want her to acknowledge that you told her you were glad she was going to see her girlfriend? I think that’s what you mean, but I’m honestly unsure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am hurt from the latest and constant rejection. I still do not understand how she can continue to knowingly choose to hurt me, when she understands that I have been so open to flipping my life around for her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once again, I’m confused. I understand THAT you feel rejected. What I don’t understand is your insistence that this is willful injury.

Let me explain. I understand THAT you want your wife to call every night. I even understand WHY you want your wife to call every night. I don’t have any clue how she really feels about it – you mention she doesn’t seem to want to but if you put that on a scale of 1 – 10 with 1 being not really inclined but open to the idea and 10 being absolutely, utterly adverse to it – where do you think she’d fall?

And, I don’t really understand how not wanting to call automatically translates into rejection. *sighs* I’m not sure how to say this nicely, so I’ll just be direct. Extremely Lost, it is not at all unreasonable for her to look forward to a change of pace. It doesn’t have to mean that she doesn’t want to talk to you or that you’ve lost her if she just wants a week without constant contact or ‘missing you.’ It really doesn’t. I’m quite, QUITE devoted to my H and I sometimes need a break, too. Sometimes people just do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am going to have to talk to her on the phone later tonight. I do not know what to say to her. I know she feels I am laying a guilt trip on her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, now THIS is my point. Would you want to talk to you if you were her? If I felt that every time I called home I was going to be treated to a guilt trip and a long exhortation of “Don’t you miss me? Don’t you want to be home? You should miss me and want to call and talk to me. Our son is sick and he misses you so much.” at the same time I was trying to deal with my family I wouldn’t want to call home either! Or, if I was going to be quizzed about who I talked to and where I went. *sighs*

This is what I meant by giving her the impression that you’re doing fine and keeping those home fires burning. THAT is the H I want to talk to. Not the one that’s making it harder for me to be away from home and focused on what I’m doing.

Think about it.

Think about it BEFORE you talk to her and maybe your message will change?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do not know what to do, other than feel hurt and miserable. I am trying to have fun with our S, but I cannot help feeling angry towards W. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah, EL, I’m so sorry you’re hurt and miserable. I really have to say that a lot of this is in your own head. You set up these horrific scenarios that would depress the dickens out of ANYONE. Seriously. Get your expectations set right. Find out if or when she’s going to call you. Don’t demand that she call you every night, instead try finding out what SHE wants to do and NEGOTIATE. After all, wouldn’t it be better to get an enthusiastic call every other day than a resentful duty call every single night?

Mys

Hiya EL... sorry to hear you're having a rough time.

You asked on my other thread what i think my H could do to put things on a different path.

It is really hard to specify because it is an overall attitude that seems to come up differntly in different circumstances. but after reading your latests post here I think I can articulate what I mean...

Basically I want my H to be curteous and aware of my needs. It's fine that he have his needs too, but I want to see evidence that he is able to be supportive of me and interested in me and my needs when i need him to be. Trusting that, in time, I will also care for him. But I want to be a priority sometimes.

The way that he can best demonstrate this is by giving me priority when I need it, as opposed to when it is convenient to him.

It doesn't mean as much for him to offer to do some favor that he was intending to do anyway or some favor that he sees as important.

It means a whole lot when he does something kind that is exactly what I need when I need it, even if it is a little harder for him. I'm supportive of H saying, even, that the favor is hard for him, but he is doing it because he can see how I need it.

Basically an awareness that it isn't all about HIM all the time.

******
Which brings me to your latest post. I think Mys is hitting the details just fine... so i won't say much except to add this:

this is an ideal time to show your wife just how much you have changed. REalize that she is dealing with her mom and support her in that. Put yourself on the back burner for this week. Refuse to build resentment about it (because building resentment is really making it about you in that you are focusing on how hard it is for you to focus on her). Resentment is Still About You.

Recognize, that for this week, it will not kill you to manage things at home and allow her to completely focus on what she needs to do with her Mom. REalize that minimizing her responsibility there is not helpful becuase it is simply another way of saying that she should have time to still focus on you. Relieve her of that responsibility for a week. It doesn't have to be any longer than that. And you are even free to say now or when she gets back that you need some extra care too after caring for her. But what is not okay is to make it about you both now and later.

It's like my H and the bball game. He made it about him and the embarassment that he would feel should I ask everyone to get up and let me out. That would have been a great time to let it be about me. Then later when he wanted to make it up to me on his terms, and not in the way i requested he care for me. Again - making it all about him and not about me. Showing that he can care for me and respect me enough to listen to and value my needs and requests and put his on hold temporarily in times of need. Turn taking. That's what I want.

I don't expect H to give up his needs all the time. It should go back and forth. but sometimes I need it to just be about me.

In the same way that when he has a bad day or really exciting news I let him tell me without interrupting with my stuff or trying to compete for the limelight. I let it be about him. With the expectation (which doesn't happen but I still request and hope for) that he will listen to me next time.

Now before you get into your "but I have sacrificed so much and I have been giving and ... ... ..."

Yes. I know. But right now it needs to be about her. Because of the surgery. And as Mys said - you can ask for your needs to be met later. But right now - let it be about her and her needs. In fact, I would even go as far as to say that now is not a good time to bring up your needs in a demanding or contentious way. Because that would draw her back to having to focus on your needs.

so I wouldn't, for example, get into a long drawn out convo about how "she doesn't like going out with you in that same way and you are sad and you want to share that with her and You.. You... You..."

Instead - calmly, as if commmenting on the weather, mention that you are excited for her and it made you think that you might like to do that sometime when she gets back - but that you can talk about it later if she wants because you realize it is a stressful time for her and you don't want to put more on her plate"

I would love it if my H would say something like that - and then listen to me.

For example - if your wife then wants to make plans on the phone - listen to her and make them. Don't say anything like "well - like I said - I don't want to bother you with this because of the stress so lets talk about it later" ... Why? Because that isn't listening to her and respecting her. That is making a decision for her which is not supportive.

ok. enough rambling from me.

The main things you might want to try, this week, are to provide as little stress for her as possible. Be casual about the calls - and maybe ask when hanging up if she has an idea when she'll call next - but if not it isn't a biigie. and then BE FLEXIBLE. recognize that situations like spending time with ill family aren't predictable. Don't assume the worst (that she doesn't love you etc. etc. etc.) Because that is making it about you. when it should be about her.

ok. I hope this helps.

lfc