The daughter wrote this when we wrote the no contact letter about two months ago.

What did OW do?

The Fence

There once was a little boy who had a bad temper. His father gave him a bag of nails and told him that every time he lost his temper, he must hammer a nail into the fence. The first day the boy had driven 37 nails into the fence. Over the next few weeks as he learned to control his anger, the number of nails hammered daily, gradually dwindled down. He discovered it was easier to hold his temper than to drive those nails into the fence.

Finally the day came when the boy didn�t lose his temper at all. He told his father about it and the father suggested that the boy now pull out one nail for each day that he was able to hold his temper. The days passed and the young boy was finally able to tell his father that all the nails were gone.

The father took his son by the hand and led him to the fence. He said �you have done well, my son, but look at the holes in the fence. The fence will never be the same. When you say things in anger, they leave a scar just like this one.� You can put a knife in a man and draw it out. It won�t matter how many times you say I�m sorry, the wound is still there. Make sure you control your temper the next time you are tempted to say something you will regret later.

- Author Unknown -

For 5-6 years you deceived your BW...all the while she invested time, money, and care to build a home (not a house in case you don't know the difference) with/for you and your girls. You bought a piece of land for protection. Your wife and daughters needed protection from YOU and even now you refuse to provide protection and leave. The NERVE to tell her to get out if she hates it...the house you have tainted in her mind, with your adultery and lies. Dday was two months ago...and she's been hating that house for two months. Maybe there is a connection!! You were building a house and tearing down your family at the same time.

If either of your DDs were married to a man who treated them as you have your BW and then have the audacity to write what you just did, what would you say?

Shameful!

And the silence says it all.

Adios

LH, you should move out of the house. StrongerMe has asked you to move. If you're truly interested in preserving the marriage, you will leave.

Separation in this case would:
1) Give you much needed breathing space and reduce the number of LB withdrawals

2) Give you both the opportunity to work on yourselves. From what strongerme describes, I strongly suggest you take an anger management course. That will go a long way toward helping her see your commitment to the marriage.

3) Give you the chance to "date" again. Automatic UA time, which I haven't seen either of you talk about at all.

LH take this chance to show SM you really do value the marriage. You're just half @ssing it right now. The house will be yours if you're still married. If you divorce it'll probably be sold. So if I were you, I wouldn't use the house as an excuse to stay when you've been asked to leave.

I am trying to do a POJA.

I hate posting.

I feel I am slow at this and the hours I a sit here is time I could be spending UA with SM.

When I post she says I glaze of the truth. She doesn�t like it when I listen to other people�s advice. She told me it pisses her off.

When I am typing she has come in here and just keeps making jabs, �You sure are typing a lot, you must have a lot to say.� I tell her she can read and edit any post before I post it. Please let me type because it takes me such a long time.

She told me she would type because I was so slow, that doesn�t happen because she gets mad and walks out of the room.

She told me I would never have the heart and be the men Never Guessed and Her Papa Bear are because they love their wives and they post.

I do not like the internet, I do not like that I will continually come and check to see what is posted. SM says she has to work but she is here on the computer doing everything else but working. Our time last night she was on it for 3 hours. She will get up in the middle of the night and early mornings to be on it. She has done this frequently during our marriage. This is one of the reasons I hate the internet because it I feel it has taken so much time away from our family.

I am posting here but it will be a letter to SM so I don�t glaze over the truth to you all. She wants me to post. She told me I need to post even though I associate all the above feelings when I do it.

On the subject of our DD14 that you said I abused and she came to you and said I was abusing her:

I talked to DD14 that afternoon and apologized about this. She didn�t want a hug. We made supper together and before I went to pick up DD11 from practice I asked her if she wanted and hug and a kiss from me before just to try to break the tension before I left and she said no. I said ok and was walking away. Then she said I will give you a hug and walked toward me but only leaned into me with her arms down while I hugged her goodbye.
When we got back, we finished supper, set the table and waited on you to get home from work. You told me later that DD14 didn�t think I was truly sorry. So I waited a while until they did their bedtime routines so I could have time to talk to the both of them.

I went to DD14�s room and held DD14 and DD11. I asked her to repeat what I had done to her and how she felt so that she could tell her side and DD11 could also be communicated to. She explained the cycle of abuse to me and DD11. She told the feelings she had felt that day. She said if there was a question that I couldn�t answer that I would turn it around and use her as an example in something else that had nothing to do with what we were talking about and make her feel bad.

I told her we would make a code word of �Beetlejuice� for them to signal to me that I was talking crazy and turning stuff around on them. I told them to say the code word if at any time they had any of these feelings. I was to never do this again and this was a safety net for them to tell me if I didn�t realize what my actions were telling them. This is not for my children to police me. I am to work on this and it never to happen again. I just wanted them to feel they had some input or safe button they could push.

You told me I had not formally apologized for the affair to our children which I thought I did:

I told them that:

I sat down with them, looked them in the face and lied to them about the friendship that I had. I was wrong. I have damaged our family and that is why I have quit my job. I have stopped drinking alcohol and the motorcycle is up for sale. These are to help mama heal and us to recover from this. Some of the worst feelings I have are telling you all that we were divorcing and you all crying through the night and I could hear it echo down the hallways. Mama asked me to leave and you all talking to me on the phone crying and asking why I left you. I will never leave you. I am sorry for what I have done to mama, the both of you and our family. We are trying to move forward in this recovery and I want to make sure you understand I am asking for your forgiveness for what I have done.

My biggest fears came true last Sunday night:

I had brought up trying to talk to my mother. This was my fault and I need to keep my mouth shut. I wanted to write a letter and let you proof read it. You said you wanted to be there when I went to read it to them. I though you and my mother would not stay quiet and there would be an argument. I just didn�t want to have an argument. You said I wasn�t supporting you. I haven�t had contact with my mother I am listening to you. MelodyLane gave us a good plan to work and we seemed to agree on it.

I do not know when this started on Sunday but you told me you wanted me out. I told you I had nothing. No job and no money coming in. I told you I was scared. You told me you wouldn�t let me starve. You also went and moved all of our money to an account without my name on it this week.

I do want to leave this house. I do not want to leave you or my children again. If we separate I truly believe and divorce will soon follow. My thoughts before was neither of us was happy and we could make each other happy. If we separate I truly believe and divorce will soon follow.

When I left is when I realized I wanted to be with you. I want to be with the girls. I want to be with the family. This would be true happiness. MB is the way to rebuild our love that I have depleted with the affair and lying about it to you. MB is our solution. I do love you and I always have. The affair was me being selfish and only thinking of me. There was nothing that you had done that made me have an affair. It was convenient and I wanted to do it. I felt bad about it and didn�t want to do it again but I did. I tried to take it and bury it and it never come back again. It was like the cat in Steven King. I do agree with you that I was addicted and needed to separate from the job.

I had been friends with females for 20 years and never had thoughts nor had any romantic contact with them. I had to big of an ego and felt it would never happen to me. I had no desire of other females. That is why we have the EP�s and I agree with them. I have not shown the responsibility and it will make our future safer.

I was hoping I would get a job and we would move forward. We continually have problems.

All I know to do right now is:


Pray with you, support you, and quit dragging myself down which doesn�t let you heal.
Keep my mouth shut.
Read everything I can on MB every day and quit dragging around with this.
Look for a job that will support our marriage.
Stop angry outburst. Practice by staying calm and not letting adrenaline into my system.
Stop selfish demands and disrespectful judgments because they are love busters and they lead to angry outburst.
Do POJA in everything we do. Practice and Practice this.
Have 20 hrs. of UA time with you every week
Plan our UA time every week to eliminate other problems.
Do everything I can to give you Love Bank deposits for you. Make sure I do these enthusiastically because I need to be making deposits as well. I can�t deposit if I do not enthusiastically do it.

I am just a person that has to have a list. I am fine to add or take away from this list as long as it helps our marriage.

Longhaul, thanks for coming and posting again. A couple of things stand out. The first is the comment above. You apologize alot and there comes a time - I believe you are at that time - where apologies won't cut it. You have to stop behaving like that, period. Your wife has said you abused her and now your children are saying this. Apologies won't cut it anymore. You have to make a decision to stop it. As Harley would tell you "JUST STOP IT."

And they shouldn't forgive you anymore until it stops. FOR GOOD. Have you considered taking anger management classes? WE have some members who have gone through Angerbusters and I wonder if you should check into that?

The second big thing that stands out to me is that your wife clearly doesn't believe you love her. If she is going to be healed, that condition can't stand. I would sit her down and ask her SINCERELY what you are doing wrong. Or better yet, send her an email and ask her to answer you via email. That way, you avoid any potential arguing. ASK HER to give you course corrections so you are not wasting your time.

Wouldn't it be tragic if you went through all this drama and lost in the end run because you were doing something that prevented her healing? The faster she heals, the FASTER your life gets to a great place. Just think of it that way. Don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You are on a path to success if you will just stick to it.

And while you should not be looking to cause conflicts, I just want to assure you that when a couple moves out of emotional withdrawal, they go through conflict. This is not unusual.

But you should be striving to never do anything to upset your wife right now. She has been through an absolute nightmare and it is up to you to heal her. I don't believe she asked you to move out this weekend because you were singing too loud in church so it must have been pretty serious.

LH, it takes TIME to learn all about MB, and to implement it in your everyday life. I'm glad that although you don't enjoy posting, you continue to do so, to help heal your wife.

I agree with ML, you need to just STOP the abuse. It has become a habit for you, and it isn't going to change overnight. Also, I shudder to think that your children are now being held responsible to tell YOU when you are crossing the line. YOU should be held responsible for your own actions, and it seems to me that if they were to NOT say your code word, and then complain later that they did feel abused, you would blame them, and that would be cruel and unfair. They are CHILDREN.

Now, onto how much time SM spends on the computer, and mainly on MB, I would like to ask you, what kind of support system does SM have IRL? It may be that SM feels safe here, and she needs the support to get her through the most difficult time of her life. THis isn't a cakewalk for her, and she is most definitely going to need support to get through it. I know that some days(mostly nights, since I couldn't sleep) even just reading stories here helped me heal.


Now, to get to this. HAve you even used the words "affair" "adultery" "infidelity" while speaking to your children about what you did with OW? THis isn't the first time you referenced your affair, and talking to your children, as sorry you lied about your "friendship" with OW. Also, you placed right on their laps the fact that YOU felt badly when they were crying because YOU were tearing their life apart. And then you told them that you would never leave them. Now, that would lay all of the responsibility in the future, should you and SM separate, at SM's feet. Not fair.

I also get, through most of your posts, that you feel like you have nothing to offer your family, since you don't have a job. You DO have something to offer your family, that has NOTHING to do with your lack of a job, which is currently temporary.

When you apply for jobs, do you and your wife POJA the jobs you will apply for?

What does your UA time look like for this week? What will you be doing during that time?

LH,

I'm glad you're posting as well....

I'm going to reinforce something I told you the other day;

You've got to STOP bringing up the things you've done to help your marriage recover; Like the job, N/C with your mom, putting the bike for sale, etc.

Every time you bring them up, you are TRIGGERING YOUR WIFE!

She is going back into trauma every time these are brought up.

If you hadn't had an affair, the job, the bike, contact with mom, etc. would NEVER be triggers, but guess what....

YOU DID!

AND THEY ARE!

Stop patting yourself on the back for any of what you've done and move forward with your marital recovery in mind.

You know how much I care about you and your family and I just needed to give you a small all in love....

It's no wonder your wife is ready to tear your head off with the constant barrage of triggers slamming her day and night.

You need to remember that DJ's and AO's are killers for her and they will make her think and say, "you're never going to change". Because she sees you repeating the same behaviors over again and again. Then, she triggers, then she is hurts, then she looses love for you...... again!

Every trigger is like you stabbing another small knife back into the same wound again, reopening it and causing her to run from you in fear of it happening again. You've got to get the triggers you are causing to occur under control, OK! You must recognize them and prevent them.

You cannot afford to delay your recovery, as I mentioned before, you do not have the luxury of time on your side. You have too much you need to learn and too much work to do.... And a very small window to accomplish it in.

BTW, How are you doing with reading the books I asked you about? One of Dr. H's books every week, remember?

p.s. I agree with Scotland. Your wife needs to be on the Marriage Builders website every day reading and so do you. If she were online reading porn or something that would be a different story but it sounds to me like she has used her time here in a productive way that has resulted in great improvement in your marriage.

Would you feel the same way if she was with you for 15-20 hours per week?

Oh ya, I also wanted to ask if you completed the RC inventories?

She told me I would never have the heart and be the men Never Guessed and Her Papa Bear are because they love their wives and they post...I do not like the internet, I do not like that I will continually come and check to see what is posted...I hate the internet because it I feel it has taken so much time away from our family.

I will not comment for HPB; I do not know him. I get the impression that you are more familiar with him than am I.

I happen to agree with you about a great deal of the impact that the internet has had on our lives. I resist, as you do, most uses of the damn thing, and don't use it well.
- I do not "facebook"
- I do not "linked-in"
- I do not "tweet"
- All of my typing is of the two-finger variety.
- I sometimes write the same note three times to guarantee precision.

And the amount of time I spend on the internet has become a source of great friction between Bride and I. As a matter of fact, it has started to become a serious threat to the happiness of our marriage. No [censored], LH - I'm giving you the straight story here. I hope you believe me.

But I spend hours each day online ON THIS SITE! And I do it why? Certainly not to better my own marital situation (like I said, it's beginning to have the opposite effect.)

I do it because it appears through whatever alignment of planets, some of the insights and interpretations I can offer to other posters here actually strike home. My words might bring clarity to their thoughts, or strength when they're faltering. Often it's a bit of humor, or more often a well-placed boot in the rear, that gets them moving forward again. (Note to LH: Pay special heed to the boot reference!) And in every case, the goal is to help some stranger recover from infidelity and try to go on with a marriage.

So, if NG, and HPB, and PB, and CP, and others, none of whose marriages are at risk, will invest thgeir time to correspond here, it's somewhat incongruous (ie: FUBAR) that someone in the midst of the fight to save his own marriage would protest at the effort.

And we're not even addressing "L'il Miss 68,000 Posts", who, if you do they math, has AVERAGED about 17 posts per day, since Noah docked the Ark!

So go ahead, try and tell me why your posting two or three times per day, to help not a stranger, but your wife, recover, is such an imposition! (Dude, I warned you about the impending "boot"!)

I'm glad we had this little chat.....

StrongerMe,
I liked that today when you responded to me on my post. I liked that I feel we resolved some things without having an argument. I also liked that both of us can look back and say �Read what I wrote. I didn�t say that.� This goes more for me because I was mistranslating what was in the Love Busters books and what I read last night. When I looked at it in black and white again with you, it was more clear. I do not disagree with your responses to my post.

I will continue to read more tonight. I have been dragging. I usually start daydreaming when I read and that is why I quit because I will read 3 to 4 pages and can�t tell you what I read. The more I read last night the more it seemed to hold my attention.

How do you feel about writing me what I am doing wrong?

How do you feel about giving me course corrections so that I am not wasting any time with your recovery?

How do you feel about scheduling our UA time tomorrow afternoon for next week?

To my recollection that our POJA to a job is:

Do not take any job that doesn�t support our marriage.
Do not take any job that is an off shift.
Do not take a job where I would have one on one contact with females.
Quit any job that makes you feel like I am putting it before you and our recovery.
Do not take a job where I would have a lot of travel.
Please add or delete any corrections.

Reading progress:
I am on 129 of 311 in Love Busters. I am highlighting away and working through it.

RC inventories:
We completed them but haven�t had much UA or RC time with each other that was positive.

With our daughters:
I spent the whole day with them. We made up our list for Walmart while we ate lunch. The DD11 liked it because she typed it on the Ipod and would check it off in the store when we put it in the cart. It started snowing and they wanted to get back to the house. We made �Dogs chili� it won a chili cookoff. It is 2 cans of Pintos, 2 cans of white northern beans, 2 oz. Ranch dressing, 2 lbs of hamburger and 2 lbs. of sausage. 15 oz of Pace Picante sauce and 2 cans of crushed tomatoes. Cook your hamburger and sausage together and drain the grease and rinse with hot water. Put it all in a crockpot on low and stir every 40 minutes. We all made it together and then played the Wii. Then they came up and made two cakes of cornbread. DD14 trained DD11 on how to make cornbread. When SM got home they ate supper together and talked about their day. This is one of my happiest times.
Everyone helped clean up after supper and on to bedtime routines.
I am off to read Love Busters and hope you have a good night.

StrongerMe,
You had asked me about taking anger management classes. You know one of our mutual friends that his wife got him to go to anger management classes and the general consciences of everyone is that she did this to document so she could have it in court that he has a anger problem.

My feelings are to take Dr. Harley�s approach and stop it now. To always think of something else to that will calm me down.
You offered to take the anger management class with me. I felt you were doing a POJA. This would take away the feeling that any of this was to document. This was to unite and move forward. You have admitted you have abused me. I agreed to take anger management classes with you. I felt we were moving forward and then you took it off the table the next day. You said you were not going to do it. You said I acted smug about the agreement.

All I know is I felt you weren�t trying to set me up and we were doing it together. I was happy we had accomplished a POJA. I was happy we were doing something together that would help our relationship.

I feel this is put on the table and not to do anything and just let it sit there because you have backed off and stopped it. I want to do something and I want to do it with you. I am asking do you have any other suggestions?

Haha, you do know me... THAT'S ME TOO!

LH,

This line of thinking is why your marriage is continuing to fall apart.

You're worried about being set up...... REALLY! (Where is Mel's Fog Horn)

You keep saying you're all in? But that attitude is definitely NOT all in. Can you see this? It's extremely foggy thinking....

Look, when I went all in I signed a Post-Nuptial agreement giving my wife EVERYTHING. That's right, EVERYTHING! That's what "All In" looks like!

Want un-hindered recovery?

Then cease fighting everything along the way and really go "All In"......

There are no worries or fears when you go "All In" because you have a confidence that surpasses understanding.

You have got to stop playing around with the mental games. Your old mind is a barrier, obstructing a new one from being created, with new behaviors and new blessings.



You know I'm available anytime, here or a phone call away....... I'm praying for you guys! Please beware of those that have not survived an affair giving you advice. (And remember, Surviving doesn't always mean their marriage survived). There are many wolves in sheep clothing.

Dr Harley's approach is to take Anger Management classes. Surely you admit you have a problem with your anger, so why wouldn't you do everything necessary to protect your wife and your daughters from your anger?

It is ludicrous to ask your wife to take an anger management class when you and I both know that her "angry outbursts," while unjustified, are a reaction to YOUR ABUSE. You are poking her with a stick over and over again 24/7 and then condemning her when she reacts. That very ploy is abusive and manipulative.

And if you don't take anger management courses and do something about your abusive behavior you will end up in court. If you do take it you are less likely to land there.

Your friend had anger management courses used against him in court because he was an angry person. If you are an angry, abusive person it will be used against you in court. So if you don't want to end up in court, you should take the course and STOP being abusive.


You manipulated her into this. sigh..

She should not reward that little manipulation by going along with you. I would apologize and commit to stop manipulating her.

Longhaul, stop playing games, my friend. Sign up for Anger Management and apologize to your wife for trying to manipulate her. How DARE you call her an "abuser" for her reactions to your abuse? I would not be surprised if your wife has serious post traumatic stress disorder when this is all said and done from enduring 5 years of abuse. MY GOD, a person can only take so much!

LongHaul is thinking like a RENTER.

EXACTLY!