LongHaul has an interview/testing on Saturday for a new job. If he gets an offer, it will be second shift - leaving house at 2:00 PM, home at 12:30 AM.

Of course, he doesn't have an offer yet, but he is more than qualified and I expect him to do well in an interview and the test. So assuming he gets an offer:
Pros:

• Income - almost 60% more than the teaching salary
  
• 2nd shift - helps in summertime - will be able to be home with the girls until 2:00 each day - I usually get home at around 5:00.
  
• Opportunity - hard to come by in this economy
  

Cons

• 2nd shift - won't see the girls during the school week, unless he gets up early to take them to breakfast/school a couple of days
  
• 2nd shift - obviously we may see each other less. I put "may" because I do work at home 2 days per week, so we may be able to make up some of the time missed
  

I'm concerned that a 2nd shift job will overall, be bad for our family, but then I think, well he could just quit if it is. But, I'm also afraid of this because it was so hard to get him to quit the previous job.

Like I mentioned, all this is little premature at the moment, but I'd love to hear thoughts...

In addition, another district seems to be expressing interest in hiring him as a teacher there. Initially this would be the job that wasn't going to open for another 3 years, but it seems that may be sped up. Not sure how I feel about this...I know there is concern about the male-to-female ratio, but with strict adherence to EPs...

StrongerMe, for God's sake, don't jump out of the frying pan into the fire by agreeing to shift work. That will be terrible for your marriage at a very fragile time. Shift work is a disaster for SOLID marriages, so you can just imagine how bad this will be for you.

His job should COMPLEMENT the marriage. Use that as a criteria when looking for jobs.

Go to this link and read some of Dr Harley's quotes and radio links about how bad shift work is for marriages: here

Thanks for the links. I listened to a few of them last night and will ask LH to listen tomorrow (or maybe tonight - but we have a date night).

Last night one of the people that is helping take care of LongHaul's class called.

He asked LH to come by today and help get one of the machines running.

Initially LH told him he'd come up after school today. I told him that would make me unhappy. LH considered the statement, then suggested he call a former student and ask him to go to the school, and he'd talk him through the process over the phone.

I know it sounds simple, but this was a HUGE step forward for us. It deposited many love units. In the past, LH would have told me it wasn't a big deal, he'd be going after school, no one would be there, etc.

I'm very hopeful about this progress. I felt that I was truly put first.

We still haven't come to an agreement about the possibility of a second shift job offer, but we haven't really discussed it either. I really want him to get a job, of course, but I am extremely concerned. We don't hardly have enough UA and family time now...

LH didn't want to listen to the clips tonight. I've listened to all but the last one. I'll probably post to Dr. Harley as well.

I've been close to tears most of the afternoon, just one of those very "sad" days. I think my mood has rubbed off on LH. He's offered to hold me tonight (what I want) and hopefully we'll both feel better tomorrow.

Please remember to concentrate on your UA time, finding things to do that you both enjoy....

We have had a lot of UA and family time this weekend. Friday, LH and I spent the afternon together (I was off work). We had lunch and a nice afternoon. We picked the girls up from school and spent about 4 hours family time together, then UA time at home afterward.

Saturday - more family time. We went to the middle school and rode bicycles on the track and the nature trail. LH had been asked to ride motorcyles yesterday, but he didn't go. He texted/talked to a couple of the guys that did ride a few times.

I told LH that this was the kind of lifestyle I had been wanting for years - just the 2 of us and the 4 of us spending time together. I asked him how he felt about it. He said he liked it too, as long as we were doing something together (like riding bikes).

This morning before we got ready for church, LH was looking at motorcycles on craigslist. He came in and talked about bikes like his selling for $2,000 less than he was wanting to list it for. He asked how I felt about "losing" money on the bike.

I told him we wouldn't be losing money because we actually don't have that much in it (he won the first bike, traded it for this one). We have $$ invested, but not as much as the asking price would be.

Also, I wouldn't care if we DID lose money, because the motorcycle was painful for me. Painful because OW rode with him multiple times (including pulling off in the woods for sex), and it was the cause of lots of IB from LH - pulling away from time with me and the family.

He seemed distant after that, but said that he was thinking of posting on the forums, and just running through what he might write.

After church and lunch, we came home with plans to watch a movie together as a family, but first DD (and us) were straightening up our bedrooms.

LH has been distant most of the morning, though I was so happy when he reached for my hand in the car and once at church; however, for the most part, no affection or conversation from him this morning.

While we were straightening up our room, I asked him what he was thinking of posting on the forums. He said, he didn't know, that he usually worked that out while he was typing. I said I didn't need a word for word, just a general topic. He still wouldn't say.

I said, "It makes me unhappy when you don't tell me what you are thinking."

He said (with a tone), "Well, I'd think you'd be happy that I want to post on the forum"

I said, "I am happy about that, I just wanted you to talk to me."

Then he started arguing with me, saying that I said I was unhappy that he was posting on the forum - something that did NOT happen. I can't even explain it. I have no idea what made him so angry.

Then he left the room, locked the door and went into the basement.

What is this? I'm so frustrated that I could scream.

Tried talking again.

I tried to tell him that I just wanted to know his feelings, what he was thinking about, because he had been cold and distant all morning.

He said I just kept "poking" at him (he made that hand gesture).

It got heated, and he just ended up raising his arms, looking at me with rage, and yelling, "I was just trying to clean the G...D...room!"

Forget UA time. I want to be far, far away from this person. I recognize him well.

Another negative discussion about MIL.

Last night LongHaul said he missed his mother and wanted to see her.

He just wants to tell her not to talk about us/marriage.

I asked if we could do POJA. I said that I would like to be there when he talks to her. He said, "Well, I guess that's my only option!"

I asked him to brainstorm. He refused. He said that he feels "restricted" because I want to be there.

He said I "should trust" him and seemed to get frustrated when I said that I don't trust him. I told him that it was too soon for me to trust him.

He thinks it will be too "heated" if I am there with his mother. I told him that MIL and I have already had a confrontation and I'm not afraid of another one. He says I'm "not listening" This is what he says when I don't agree with him.

I don't plan on saying anything to his mother. I just want to be there so that I'll know what he says to her. I want to be sure that he takes up for me/us if she starts saying something negative (therefore, I won't HAVE to say anything, as long as HE does).

I don't believe he will. That is why I think it is too soon to talk to them, or let her back into our lives. But he misses her, so I was trying to come up with a solution that made me feel protected.

He asked how I would feel if he wanted to come into a business meeting with my boss. ?? This stuff drives me crazy.

I've already had a terrible week, emotionally. I had to be out of town to chaperone a school trip for our DD11. There were 2 teachers there, shamelessly flirting with each other. Many students and parents were talking about it.

I felt like I was watching LongHaul and OW's affair.

Things got better when I got home, and now this.

I had said that I wanted MIL to know how damaging she was. LongHaul talked about the Christmas get-together being cancelled and the fact that he and the girls don't talk to MIL. This is an example of the disconnect. When I was referring to "damage", I was talking about when he confessed the A and the girls and I were in turmoil, MIL made everything worse.

She tried to turn the girls against me. She tried to turn LH against me. She called her friend and her friend tried to talk LH out of quitting his job. She told LH and me that everything I was doing was wrong. She said I shouldn't have exposed to anyone, especially our daughters. She has fought this every step of the way. My daughters said "It's like Grannie wants us to blame YOU."

THAT is what I meant by damaging. LongHaul is focused on no Christmas get-together and no contact as the damage. ?? I cancelled the get-together that was planned at OUR house. LongHaul wasn't even living here at the time, and this is all his family (parents, cousins). I sent an email saying that whereever they re-scheduled, I'd make sure the girls attended. They didn't re-schedule. I feel like he's blaming me for that.

I'm so frustrated that we can't even have a civil (much less "cheerful") discussion about this.

I'd be happy if he continues no contact with MIL, but he misses her. I just wanted to try to come up with a solution for that. I wanted to do POJA, but how do you do that when only one person is willing?

His attitude of feeling "restricted" is the same attitude that I've been dealing with for years. When I tried to get him to stop talking to OW, he felt the same way. He took her to lunch and told her and let her say all kinds of negative things about me. He didn't take up for me with her. Immediately afterward he'd come home and "report" his day, obviously resentful about it. I "trusted" that the contact with OW stopped - it didn't and turned into a full PA.

I'm worried about a similar outcome with MIL. Obviously not an A, but he'll let her say negative things about me, continue contact with her, and she'll continue her crusade to destroy our marriage, and he just won't tell me about it.

I'm scared of letting her back in. We aren't strong enough. I especially don't want to let her back in if I don't feel the groundwork has been laid properly. Trust me, she'll detect ANY hesitation from LongHaul and it will feed her fire against me and our marriage.

oh boy, Longhaul has committed so many lovebusters here I hardly know where to begin. The subject of his mother needs to be set aside entirely right now. Your marriage is too fragile right now to bring her back into the picture. You have no assurance whatsoever that she has changed her stance, which is the enemy of your marriage. So you rightly are very weary of having her around to undermine your marriage again.

His attitude makes it clear to you that he is not willing to protect you. That is troubling.

I am literally exhausted.

Everything is a fight.

I had to fight to get him to quit his job. I had to fight to get him to sell the motorcycle. I had to fight to get him to see that a 2nd shift job would be bad for us. I had to fight about MIL.

I'm really tired of it. His attitude is that I "made" him do things. His attitude is that I am "restricting".

At this point, I don't feel that it is going to work. I can't go the rest of my life fighting with him to put me and our marriage first. Yes, he does eventually do it, but at what cost to me?

I told him, it is like the arguments we've been having for years. When I would get upset with his independent behavior. He'd stay home for a while, and it would be obvious that he wasn't happy about it.

I would tell him, "I want you to WANT to be here."

I feel the same way about this. I want him to want to do this. I'm tired of feeling like I'm forcing or dragging him through everything.

So frustrated. I've already wasted 5 years of my life. I don't want to waste any more. How long am I supposed to wait for him to not just be onboard, but be the leader in our recovery?

Going back a few notes.....

There were 2 teachers there, shamelessly flirting with each other. Many students and parents were talking about it.

And what did YOU do?

I have a list of about a dozen marriage-protecting actions you could have taken depending on your fortitude and commitment to the concept of faithful marriages, ranging from "tsk-tsk-ing" with the other female(?) parents, to writing letters to the principle and the appropriate school board members explaining that the behavior of these two APs-apparent was inappropriate and deleterious to the moral well-being of a group of eleven yo's.

Let's see where your actions fitted into the canon I assembled!

I just sat in a corner feeling sorry for myself and feeling humiliated because I'm sure everyone thought the same about LongHaul and Skank. I literally fought tears (this time luckily I was at the pool, and no one was paying attention).

I considered talking to the involved teachers directly and warning them, but I know you can't reason with a wayward mind.

Didn't consider talking to the principal because I highly doubt she would do anything about it (she hasn't handled a teacher that verbally abuses students and throws things, slams doors in anger).

Considered calling the spouse of the female teacher. I thought they were both married at first, but my daughter said the male teacher is single.

But ultimately I did nothing...and as I write this, I know it is unacceptable. I would have LOVED someone to tell me something. Maybe I could have avoided 5 years of hell.

I feel for you, SM. I've also had dreadful MIL (and SIL) troubles. It all started when we moved from Australia to live close to H's family in Germany because his father was getting frail. In retrospect, it's clear what was going on but at the time, I was baffled and very hurt.

SIL, who lives in the same village as MIL and FIL, was very intrusive, every time we would visit, she would turn up, dominating the conversation, being really loud and aggressive. At the same time, she was snubbing me constantly - but in a very covert, sneaky way.

She felt threatened by her brother coming to live so close, when she had been ruling the roost for so long.

Up until then, I had loved my MIL and FIL, I had after all moved away from the country I feel most comfortable in to a country where I am much less comfortable so that we could have more contact with them. However, to my pained surprise, when I tried to discuss SIL's behaviour towards me with MIL, MIL was affronted and took against me. After a few months of steadily rising trouble, I refused to visit anymore, although I agreed with H that he and the kids could continue to visit.

But MIL couldn't let it rest, she kept carping about me, every visit she would say something. Plus she was cold and angry with H. And our eldest daughter (10 yo) kept getting subjected to the same covert aggressive behaviour from SIL that I had experienced.

I got more and more upset because H wasn't standing up for me, he had this hands-off attitude. I found MB and we realised that H is a major IB person and that this was at play here. He wanted to keep seeing his parents and therefore kept downplaying my hurt and increasingly angry feelings about the way I was being treated.

It got quite hairy for a while and finally I drew a line in the sand. I said, "I come first and only when your family treat me and our children with courtesy and decorum can they be allowed back in our lives. If you do not defend me, our children, and our marriage, you will have to leave the house."

It was the last thing I wanted but I meant it. I was very distressed, I was far away from my friends in a foreign country where I didn't speak the language well, and every new visit to H's parents brought another round of arguments. I became deeply depressed and overwhelmed. I had to save myself.

H finally realised that he couldn't have eveything. He told his mother off and she behaved as belligerently with him as she did with me. Even though she is not religious, she reminded him haughtily of the commandment to honour thy parents. She said that of her 3 kids, only her daughter cared for her (when H travelled the 17000 km journey from Australia every year to visit the old b****). She was full of self pity, highly aggressive, told him she didn't want to see him again but did want to see the kids.

It got so toxic for both H and me that we decided to go into plan B. That's where we have remained, we don't see them at all. It's likely to stay that way. He still sends them happy birthday wishes once a year (with my full agreement), it's always tense then and inevitably we both get sick. We call it The Curse.

I know Prisca and Markos had a similar situation.

Your marriage must come first, SM. If LongHaul wants to see his parents, HE has to make it clear to his mother that he WILL put you first if she continues in this vein. He WILL discontinue his relationship with her if she does not cooperate.

It wouldn't surprise me that your MIL is feeding your WH's fogginess and IBness. You are wise to feel threatened here.

Do as ML says: put this one on a back burner until you get the more important issue - the affair - sorted out. Does LongHaul know about Type A and Type B resentment in POJA? It may be useful for him to read about it.

Good luck.

But ultimately I did nothing...and as I
write this, I know it is unacceptable.
I would have LOVED someone to tell me
something. Maybe I could have avoided
5 years of hell.

You approach Wisdom, Grasshopper!When
"I would have LOVED someone..." becomes
"Someone will LOVE that I...", you will
have arrived!

As for me, things continued to deteriorate last night. Many lovebusters from both of us.

I just want some peace. I want someone who WANTS to love and care for me, not someone that constantly has to be reinforced.

I want a husband that encourages ME, instead of always the other way around.

I told him that I have lowered my standards for so long. I don't even recognize the person that I've become. Now that I've raised the standards again, he either doesn't want to meet them, or he can't.

Or he meets them (after a fight), and then I continually hear how I "made" him to it, it's "never enough", I'm "restricting" him. Then I hear he "gets it", untiil 2 or 3 days later when he doesn't, again.

I'm afraid it is TOO entrenched in him, and that the man I married, the man I long to have back, is gone and will never return.

When we talked about this last night, it's like he's given up too. What am I supposed to do? I've already been dragging him, kicking and screaming, through the MB process. I've been trying to PULL him up to my standards, rather than him proactively leaping to them. I don't have the energy left in me.

I told him that I think it would be best for us to separate before our arguments destroy any love we might have left. He refuses to leave the house, says I (StrongerMe) hate the house anyway so I should be the one who has to leave. Told me to get out last night.

I asked if he would please leave until I found a suitable place for the girls and me, then he could return. He won't. Isn't my life hard enough?

I still hold out hope that there is some shred of the man I used to love. I still hope that he can find a way to me, but I can't continue living this way. I want some peace. I can't rely on him to help me recover, I've got to figure out how to do it on my own.

He also needs time to figure out what he really wants, because I think if he really wanted our marriage and me, he wouldn't be holding all the resentment for the things he's had to give up (job, motorcycle, contact with MIL). I feel he'd be excited about doing anything that would make our marriage stronger and me happier.

I believe he's not fighting for our marriage right now because he does resent all these things. I bet the minute I'm gone, he'll start undoing all the conditions and EPs that are set up - take the motorcycle off craigslist, drinking, talking to his Mom, talking to lots of females, etc. Because they are just too hard and a big part of him doesn't want to change.

I'm afraid I'm still doing what I've been doing for five years - holding out hope, believing in something that is temporary at best, just his manipulation at worst. And I've been so careful not to discourage him, he's so easily discouraged. I've tried to stay positive, because I can tell it brings him down. Since D-Day, I've changed ME. I've been meeting his most important needs (SF, RC) and have been meeting them WELL. I've been spending more time with him and DRAMATICALLY less time on the internet and hardly ever watch TV.

Don't misunderstand. He's made many changes as well. I have constantly praised him for what he's done, and the steps he's taken. He's been praised on the forums and by other people as well. I am truly proud of him. I do feel loved from some of the steps that he's taken. But, he's also right when he says that it is "never enough". I want his ATTITUDE to be different.

I felt loved when he said he'd quit his job. But that turned into a huge fight and ordeal. Same with the motorcycle. It's like he agrees to something, then starts the work of wearing ME down so that I'll change my mind. I don't want to be told and made to feel like I've forced him to do all this. He'll SAY he's doing it for me, to help me "heal", but then mopes around about it, argues about it and makes me feel guilty for having standards.

I think I want what something he isn't willing to give, or maybe he just can't. Maybe the 5 years of betrayal and lies have permanently changed the man I married.

I'm just really sad.

I'm sorry. You sound at your wits end. It seems like Plan B would be in order. It's draining to live with an IB person at the best of times, it's much worse when you're put in the invidious position of having to make your H choose between you and an AP. And you've got a toxic MIL hanging about like a witch in the wind.

HE should leave the house. Get an intermediary and write your plan B letter.

There is nothing better, more peaceful, than a deep Plan B.

SM, I can understand why you are giving up. This must be a nightmare for you. I would call your Marriage Builders coach and get some guidance from her. Now is the time to be relying on her for help.

Agreed. This is exactly the time to have the MB coach intervene! Ours was very helpful when we had a variety of situations.

AM

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. I have appreciated it every step of the way.

I think what happened is that I truly thought when he confessed, that I had a reason for the way that he's been treating me. I was actually relieved because I thought he doesn't hate me, the guilt has just been eating him up. I realy thought I'd get back "my" husband.

I said that the reason things haven't been "good enough" is that his heart just isn't in this. That is why it is so hard. He seems upset because I told him I wouldn't make a rash decision for 2 years, and now I appear to be. That is true. I apologized to him for lying. I should have said that I wouldn't make a rash decision as long as we were fully doing MB and his heart was in it.

The reason that I didn't say that at the time is because I had myself convinced that the other person that has been my husband for 5 years was gone. I had myself convinced that I was finally getting back the man I married. If that were true, I wouldn't have to put a condition on my 2 years, because THAT man would be helping me through this.

I do see glimpses of him, but he's not here. Even as I was trying to explain to him that I needed him to help me heal, that I needed the husband he used to be, he turned from me and started looking at his email.

And he tells me that I don't have the heart.

I supposed to talk to the coach on Wednesday. I may try to move that up a bit.

As for Plan B, he refuses to leave the house again. Told me I should be the one to leave since I hate this house anyway. Told me to pack up my stuff and get out tonight (he also said that last night).

So, it will take some time for me to find somewhere affordable for the girls and me. I have to go into work now and won't be able to plan or post much.

Thanks again for all the encouraging words. It really means more to me than you'll ever know.