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Is she setting her life up in such a way that you could VERIFY no contact? Give me an idea of what you mean by "setting her life up in such a way"? If you mean change of email address and phone number, then yes, that is something that will need to be done and she is willing to do. She is also willing to leave her job.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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Does she live in the same town as POSOM?
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Does she live in the same town as POSOM? No, he lives in another state (GA)
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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I did let her know about transparency and being open and honest about everything. She said she was willing to do that. I agree that it would be better for us all if we can make this work, but I want it to be done right and not miss anything I should be doing or having her do. But does she still believe she is entitled to have an affair if something better comes along? Her philosophy of marriage is the basic problem here. I most ADAMANTLY agree with Markos that you speak to Dr Harley first and get his recommendations. I would go on his radio show and discuss this inside and out before you make any decisions.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Is she setting her life up in such a way that you could VERIFY no contact? Give me an idea of what you mean by "setting her life up in such a way"? If you mean change of email address and phone number, then yes, that is something that will need to be done and she is willing to do. She is also willing to leave her job. How was she able to hide this affair so successfully in the past? I would get minute details about her tactics and then eliminate any of those avenues. I seem to remember that she was extremely sneaky.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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How many affairs did she have in your marriage? There was a ONS and this affair that carried on for a little over a year In your first post you spoke of two separations before this last affair. I believe I told you somewhere earlier in this thread that MORE LIKELY THAN NOT when she left you in 2001, that was an affair. People do not move out unless they want space to have an affair. For sure you will need to have her poly'd. She has had a SSL almost your entire marriage and seems to be a serial cheater. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more to be uncovered than an affair from the separation in 2001.
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Over the last few weeks, my ex wife and I have had several talks about possibly getting back together. I've been observing her behavior and body language when I talk to her to see if I can sense any lying or deceit. GJM, I just want to remind you of what your WW said back in 2009 after she left you following that affair: I took her back and we went to counseling. She said she would spend the rest of her life making it up to me and she loved me so much. Completely ignore her words. They are meaningless. OM dumped her to go back to his wife and she is looking to have her ENs met like most serial cheaters do. Please be VERY CAREFUL.
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My advice is still the same as it was in Feb of this year when your WW was trying to talk to you about reconciliation... SMB wrote something on her famous thread after her FR when she was writing out her conditions that she wanted the bar set SO HIGH that it was almost impossible for HPB to return -- so that she would be ensured that he was very serious.
Just wanted to throw that out there for you to think about. You and the children have been to hell and back. I would hate to see her jerk you all around some more when she is not DEAD SERIOUS about making big big changes (honesty boundaries selfishness laziness etc) and rather just looking for a "quick fix".
Please be very careful.
Last edited by SusieQ; 06/05/13 11:17 AM. Reason: oops, misread something
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Is she setting her life up in such a way that you could VERIFY no contact? Give me an idea of what you mean by "setting her life up in such a way"? If you mean change of email address and phone number, then yes, that is something that will need to be done and she is willing to do. She is also willing to leave her job. How was she able to hide this affair so successfully in the past? I would get minute details about her tactics and then eliminate any of those avenues. I seem to remember that she was extremely sneaky. She was sneaky, or so she thought. I knew everything she was doing. I just couldn't stop it so I gave up after the divorce was final. They used prepaid phones and my ex wife was taken off of my cell plan so they could talk openly and meet wherever and whenever because she had her own place.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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This is part of the reason I will never allow my ex to meet any of my EN's ever again (intimate conversation, etc), I know I would be vulnerable to him because:
(a) knowing what the lovebank model says, that he can easily make deposits with me because of our history
(b) my "nice" "giving" nature, wanting to make others happy (including him if he was being nice to me and meeting any of my needs)
(c) wanting to do what would be "best" for my children
I gotta tell you, GJM, I wish you had gone Plan B with your wife so that you could get some emotional distance from her and see your M more objectively.
After being in Plan B for a short while, I realized that I was unhappy a lot in my M because I gave and gave and gave and gave and my xWH did not do an awful lot to meet my ENs. And because he led a SSL, he was withdrawn and we did not have a very close intimate relationship. I looked back at your first post and it seems this was a problem throughout your M as well.
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Over the last few weeks, my ex wife and I have had several talks about possibly getting back together. I've been observing her behavior and body language when I talk to her to see if I can sense any lying or deceit. GJM, I just want to remind you of what your WW said back in 2009 after she left you following that affair: I took her back and we went to counseling. She said she would spend the rest of her life making it up to me and she loved me so much. Completely ignore her words. They are meaningless. OM dumped her to go back to his wife and she is looking to have her ENs met like most serial cheaters do. Please be VERY CAREFUL. I believed there was an affair in 2001 as well, but she has stood firm that there wasn't, but she admitted to her ONS and the most recent affair. Maybe because she got caught, I don't know for sure. We can assume that she did, but I can't prove it. I want to be careful, that's why I'm here. I want to make sure I cover everything and set up precautions to protect myself and my children.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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[
I believed there was an affair in 2001 as well, but she has stood firm that there wasn't, but she admitted to her ONS and the most recent affair. Maybe because she got caught, I don't know for sure. We can assume that she did, but I can't prove it. I want to be careful, that's why I'm here. I want to make sure I cover everything and set up precautions to protect myself and my children. It is not in your children's best interest to suffer ANOTHER affair and another separation, though. Your marriage has been fraught with disaster because she has a renters mentality that seems to believe she is entitled to have an affair if something better comes along. I seriously doubt it was just the 2 affairs you know of. I would wager she had an affair when she left in 2001 too.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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This is part of the reason I will never allow my ex to meet any of my EN's ever again (intimate conversation, etc), I know I would be vulnerable to him because:
(a) knowing what the lovebank model says, that he can easily make deposits with me because of our history
(b) my "nice" "giving" nature, wanting to make others happy (including him if he was being nice to me and meeting any of my needs)
(c) wanting to do what would be "best" for my children
I gotta tell you, GJM, I wish you had gone Plan B with your wife so that you could get some emotional distance from her and see your M more objectively.
After being in Plan B for a short while, I realized that I was unhappy a lot in my M because I gave and gave and gave and gave and my xWH did not do an awful lot to meet my ENs. And because he led a SSL, he was withdrawn and we did not have a very close intimate relationship. I looked back at your first post and it seems this was a problem throughout your M as well. I understand what you are saying. I will agree that I didn't Plan B. I also only had basic conversations about my kids so there wasn't a lot of contact or emotions involved. I kept my distance and did my own thing. For the most part, I don't have episodes of sadness or regret. I'd say 95% of the time, I am doing great.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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[
I believed there was an affair in 2001 as well, but she has stood firm that there wasn't, but she admitted to her ONS and the most recent affair. Maybe because she got caught, I don't know for sure. We can assume that she did, but I can't prove it. I want to be careful, that's why I'm here. I want to make sure I cover everything and set up precautions to protect myself and my children. It is not in your children's best interest to suffer ANOTHER affair and another separation, though. Your marriage has been fraught with disaster because she has a renters mentality that seems to believe she is entitled to have an affair if something better comes along. I seriously doubt it was just the 2 affairs you know of. I would wager she had an affair when she left in 2001 too. I would agree with you. We have both agreed on this. She has seen what it's done to our kids and doesn't want them to go through it again. When we first separated, she said the kids would be fine. A few weeks ago, I asked her if she felt the same way and she said no. She has said that she sees what she has done and how stupid she was. I will contact Dr Harley and get his advice.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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I also only had basic conversations about my kids so there wasn't a lot of contact or emotions involved. I kept my distance and did my own thing. You have posted to us different instance of having IC. For example the talks of reconciliation back in February. Another time about her calling you crying about her problems. This = love bank deposits and does not allow for the emotional distance that Plan B affords.
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I believed there was an affair in 2001 as well, but she has stood firm that there wasn't, but she admitted to her ONS and the most recent affair. Maybe because she got caught, I don't know for sure. We can assume that she did, but I can't prove it. I want to be careful, that's why I'm here. I want to make sure I cover everything and set up precautions to protect myself and my children. It is not in your children's best interest to suffer ANOTHER affair and another separation, though. Your marriage has been fraught with disaster because she has a renters mentality that seems to believe she is entitled to have an affair if something better comes along. I seriously doubt it was just the 2 affairs you know of. I would wager she had an affair when she left in 2001 too. I would agree with you. We have both agreed on this. She has seen what it's done to our kids and doesn't want them to go through it again. When we first separated, she said the kids would be fine. A few weeks ago, I asked her if she felt the same way and she said no. She has said that she sees what she has done and how stupid she was. I will contact Dr Harley and get his advice. Just wanted to stop by and let you know I am pulling for you. I really feel for you for the position she has put you in.
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I would agree with you. We have both agreed on this. She has seen what it's done to our kids and doesn't want them to go through it again. When we first separated, she said the kids would be fine. A few weeks ago, I asked her if she felt the same way and she said no. She has said that she sees what she has done and how stupid she was. I will contact Dr Harley and get his advice. Let me just warn you: this board is full of affairees who said they would never have an affair because they saw the damage it does. The truth is, like a heroin addiction, once a person gets a hit, they stop thinking rationally, like thinking about what damage it can do.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Have you ever presented her with this list? What does she say? 1. end all contact for life with the OM and send him a no contact letter
2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle. She must move home
3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc, total accountability
4. no more opposite sex friendships
5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph
6. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage
Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.
She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage. Because she is a serial cheater, I would also suggest she not have a job where she is working closely with men. As I recall she met this last OM at her job at the gym. The last thing, GJM, and this is what was in my OWN Plan B letter with my xWH was that he post here on the forum so that the vets here could help me gauge his seriousness. The posters here have the best BS detectors around. If she can't be bothered to do anything listed above, then I wouldn't bother contacting Dr Harley. Just my 2cents. You and your children have already been through hell and back THREE times with this woman.
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I also only had basic conversations about my kids so there wasn't a lot of contact or emotions involved. I kept my distance and did my own thing. You have posted to us different instance of having IC. For example the talks of reconciliation back in February. Another time about her calling you crying about her problems. This = love bank deposits and does not allow for the emotional distance that Plan B affords. Yes, that was recent, but it didn't make me run back. I was logical about everything. I guess in my mind, I felt I was distant. I didn't go to her about my problems, but did mention that she missed me and wished she would have tried harder. At that time, I came her to talk to you all about reconcilliation, but I didn't tell her because she didn't ask for me to come back. Yes, you're right, I didn't Plan B and said I wasn't going to. Now I'm here trying to figure out what steps I take in order to do things the right way. I understand the marriage has ended, but if my ex wife agrees to the terms presented to her, I would like to put my family back together again. I believe it's possible.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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[
I believed there was an affair in 2001 as well, but she has stood firm that there wasn't, but she admitted to her ONS and the most recent affair. Maybe because she got caught, I don't know for sure. We can assume that she did, but I can't prove it. I want to be careful, that's why I'm here. I want to make sure I cover everything and set up precautions to protect myself and my children. It is not in your children's best interest to suffer ANOTHER affair and another separation, though. Your marriage has been fraught with disaster because she has a renters mentality that seems to believe she is entitled to have an affair if something better comes along. I seriously doubt it was just the 2 affairs you know of. I would wager she had an affair when she left in 2001 too. I would agree with you. We have both agreed on this. She has seen what it's done to our kids and doesn't want them to go through it again. When we first separated, she said the kids would be fine. A few weeks ago, I asked her if she felt the same way and she said no. She has said that she sees what she has done and how stupid she was. I will contact Dr Harley and get his advice. Just wanted to stop by and let you know I am pulling for you. I really feel for you for the position she has put you in. Thank you...I appreciate it.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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