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As I read about the effects on kids, I decided to try to save it. The day I caught her, the 3 yr old and 10 yr old were home alone. That's horrible. Waywards are not good parents. My xWH's mother had LTA while he was growing up. He became a serial cheater and two other of his siblings had affairs. Your children are watching your WW's dishonesty, thoughtless and selfish behavior, affair after affair, year after year, and the message they are learning from her is that this type of behavior is OK. From you they are learning conflict avoidance. Keeping the M together at all costs is NOT in the best interests of your children. Under no circumstances should a 3 and 10 year old be left home alone. A 10 year old for a short while. NOT a 3 year old. If children Svcs was aware of this they would have taken the kids into protective custody
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I agree that is horrible that she left the kids alone to go bang the OM. It seems as though your wife was only happy to recover until the next AP came along. I agree there is nothing that you could have done. She obviously has no morals.
I think Mel's advice is the best. Plan D/B.
I'm sorry for your hurt and pain. You deserve better than what your WW is dishing out at the moment.
Me BW: 30
WH: 33
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Person, you need to document everything if you want to make sure you have the kids's best interest in mind. Thread that discusses this issue "DOCUMENT" <~~~ LINK to CLICKExample: On (date) WW left kids (ages) home alone for (amount of time) while she spent time with OM. On (date) WW left me to babysit the kids while she spent time with OM. Keep it clinical and unemotional. Dates Times Facts No conclusions (such as "WW was careless and left kids alone")
Last edited by Pepperband; 02/08/13 11:15 AM.
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Person .... You need to get a GPS on WW's vehicle. ASAP. ***LINK*** to GPS information
Last edited by Pepperband; 02/08/13 11:22 AM.
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Person .... do not discuss this MB business (any of it) with WW, but read this to empower yourself. The "ideal" outcome in WW's sick & twisted mind is the following: "My BH will come to realize that I will be a better person if we divorce. Our kids will love OM. We will all be great friends. There will be no financial or emotional costs to our divorce and me marrying OM. OM will be a better Daddy than BH. BH will see this and cooperate fully. We will all get along and BH will step aside so OM and I can raise MY KIDS together. Holidays will include everyone together, and we will all be so happy that I was finally able to find myself with OM."  This is WHY you need a GPS on her car and document everything.
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Speak to an attorney. Know what a divorce will cost.
Do NOT roll over and allow the wolves to eat you alive.
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I don't know how many affairs she has had. I know of 4 now. Some years back, I observed that the MB recovery program has less success when the WW is NOT a "run of the mill" type wayward wife. Run Of The Mill WW? (or not?) Please read the first and second posts on that link. Your WW has cruelly led you to believe that her behavior is all your fault. I cannot state it more emphatically .... SHE IS NOT A TYPICAL RUN OF THE MILL WAYWARD WIFE. She is an unrepentant repeat-repeat-repeat-repeat adulteress. This is not something you can cause. Not ever.
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The REAL reason your WW does what she does is well-described in one of Dr Harley's books. Your WW is a Renter when she is at her best, but WW's core beliefs are actually more in line with a Freeloader. You cannot coax her into a Buyer/Buyer relationship. She does not value that type of relationship because it requires her to conduct herself in ways that demonstrate caring and empathy. If WW cannot muster caring and empathy for you, then in HER MIND it is your fault. Not hers. ***Link*** to Buyers Renters Freeloaders discussion A discussion about one of my favorite Harley books !!!!!
Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.
Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful. Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.
Buyers believe We are together for life.
Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.
Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.
Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.
Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.
Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.
Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.
Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.
Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.
Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.
Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary. According to Harley
most happily married couples have worked their way up from Freeloaders to Renters and finally to Buyers.
He says the problem arises when partners do not eventually become Buyers. Some more Willard to chew on:
"The real commitment of marriage is not a commitment to stay regardless of how you are treated. It's a commitment to care for each other regardless of the circumstances you find yourselves in."
also....
"Marriage means that each spouse is commited to make a GREATER effort to care for each other than they were making BEFORE marriage, a GREATER effort to meet each other's intimate needs."
really something to think about for all of us .... ... which brings us to POJA
which is adopting the Buyer's strategy
means you must consider both your interests ~and~ your partner's interests
up to the point of bilateral enthusiastic agreement
which means NO ONE sacrifices their happiness for the other's .... you seek mutual happiness The good doctor says that couples who do not practice POJA skills gradually develop incompatable lifestyles.... Think of POJA as the ~Holy Grail~ for creating a marriage of mutual compatibility
and enthusiastic support for major decisions implies a respect for the long-term happiness of both partners
this does not mean compromise is not to be found ... but it must be enthusiastic and genuine ... which eliminates sacrifice which is a disingenuous method of manipulating one's spouse
every sacrifice we ask of our partner or of ourselves is a step ~away~ from a mutually enjoyable relationship
think of the relationship ~itself~ as a third person in the marriage ... and choosing what is best for the relationship instead of what is best for only one partner
She behaves like a Freeloader during her adulteries.
Can you see this?
Has this helped you understand the true genesis of her behaviors?
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Pepper, your posts are very helpful, thank you very much for taking the time. After the exposure, I have not snooped. It is going to be difficult to snoop because she is on the lookout for it at this point. She is pushing for the swift and clean divorce right now. She says she has absolutely no feelings for me and is not interested in doing any of the things we did to "recover" 7 years ago. "I'm not going to go places with you, not holding hands, not talking, I don't want to do anything with you, etc".
We live in a no-fault state. I looked into the law a bit and there is some consideration for adultery when deciding alimony but that's about it. Divorce looks like lose-lose-lose (me, her, kids) to me. I am wondering at what point it is the better option though (as you can imagine).
Everyone counselling me says to stick it out (paid counsellor, her relatives, my relatives, people who have been through it, etc) She wears me down sometimes when she is so adamant that she wants nothing to do with me anymore. Help me keep figuring this out.
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Do NOT confront her with anything right now.
Document everything.
Find out (see an attorney) if it is an advantage for you to file for a D before she does.
Sometimes, the person who files controls the speediness and the pace of the divorce. FIND OUT (from an attorney)... Ask if WW files will WW control the speed of the proceedings?
Grab whatever advantage you can NOW.
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It the attorney says if you file you can drag it our for a loooooong time, it may give you time to work things to your advantage.
Don't guess. Be informed and armed with FACTS.
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If you think filing for a D first will signal your surrender to your WW .... she is in for a rude awakening. That way, after wasting a lot of time, you can cancel the petition and then things are back to square one.
Have you done necessary due diligence to protect family finances?
Do you have possession of the kid's birth certificates? The marriage license? The auto pink slips? The deed to any property?
Any/all important documents?
Do this.
Get a safety deposit box.
Put cash and documents in the box.
Keep stashing cash for a rainy day.
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Get a post office mailbox. Start having all important mail sent there.
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Your WW is expecting you to jump through hoops like a pet dog and sit/lie down at her command.
Go about the business of gaining the upper hand WITH OUT DISCUSSING any of this.
Be a warrior for your kids. You do this to fight for the family and to protect them from WW's stupidity.
Plan A means be pleasant to be with. It does not mean roll over and expose your underbelly so she can tar & feather you emotionally and financially.
Whenever confronted, and unsure of how to respond .... "That's a good thing you brought this up. I need time to think it over. I will get back to you. Want some coffee?" Then .... be pleasant .... while you work behind the sceen to gain the upper hand should there be a divorce. Do it for the kids.
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Meanwhile .... stand up tall. Walk like you are proud of yourself.
Carry yourself with dignity and self respect.
Get busy working out your body.
Make sure you look as handsome as possible. Get your hair cut.
Listen to music and dance around the house.
Sing & whistle.
Read stories to the kids.
Plan a family game night.
Do all the cool things you can think of.
If WW refuses to join in, or makes disparaging remarks, just smile and say: "That's OK dear. We are doing our happy thing. Maybe you will join us another time." it is important you say this with the kids listening.
Now, this next bit is important.
Go to the school and daycare providers. Tell them the following:
"My wife and I are experiencing serious marriage difficulties. Here is my cell number. Please, call or text me immediately if you notice any out-of-the-ordinary behavior problems. Under no circumstances are my children ever to be picked up by (give OM's full name). If there is an attempt for OM to pick up my children, call me, and call the police." <~~~ Do not tell your wife you have warned the care providers. Do the same thing (worded differently) with their pediatrician.
You are not helpless. You are empowered.
Last edited by Pepperband; 02/08/13 01:31 PM.
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She is pushing for the swift and clean divorce right now. She says she has absolutely no feelings for me and is not interested in doing any of the things we did to "recover" 7 years ago. "I'm not going to go places with you, not holding hands, not talking, I don't want to do anything with you, etc".  She is in an active adulterous affair. Never argue with an addict. Never talk sense and expect an addict to listen. You MUST stop allowing her stupid addiction adultery script to steer the boat. YOU grab the tiller and you decide the direction and the speed .... right now!
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Today is your day.
Make it count.
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"We live in a no-fault state. I looked into the law a bit and there is some consideration for adultery when deciding alimony but that's about it. Divorce looks like lose-lose-lose (me, her, kids) to me. I am wondering at what point it is the better option though (as you can imagine).
Everyone counselling me says to stick it out (paid counsellor, her relatives, my relatives, people who have been through it, etc) She wears me down sometimes when she is so adamant that she wants nothing to do with me anymore. Help me keep figuring this out."
That is dreadful advice to stick it out since you know she will not change. I think it's easy to say "stick it out" when it is not your ox that is getting gored. Your marraige has no hope unless she agrees to make RADICAL 180 degree changes in her approach to your marriage. Will these people who are giving you this advice GUARANTEE such a change?
I would add that your relatives have no idea how to save a marriage. Who is the paid counselor who told you to stick it out?
You can only WIN by filing for divorce and introducing her adultery. Divorce would be the definition of success in your case.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Pep is giving you great advice. You need to be snooping. Go to Best Buy and buy zoobak GPs unit and put a VAR in her car. You need to be snooping like a bloodhound.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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