Here.
Resentment Type A and Type B

Hi,
I think I am finally understanding what the implications are of the 'lovebusters' that I have committed. I have made my wife feel so devalued that she is withdrawing in anguish. I have committed Type A by going behind her back and talking to my family.
But if I agree to not see my family unless my wife agrees what if she never agrees, and my mom dies of her cancer in the meantime? How would I live with myself knowing I have helped hurt my mother and contributed to her death? Is there a way with the POJA to come to an agreement that I can see my mother. We had arrived at the agreement that I would visit her once a year in summer. Unfortunately I wasn't being completely honest all the time so I violated that trust.
thanks for your help,
Z

Z,
I haven't yet found a citation in which Dr H proposes that the strength and importance of a marital union should morph into booking dual-occupancy passage on "SS Fantasia".

It seems you have been, after a fashion, attempting to see your wife's side of things, acceding to her increasingly bizarre feelings of persecution by, in a word, everybody! (Seriously, a missed appointment, 15 years ago, is bothering her today?)

So how has avoiding honest appraisal of what is right, in lieu of reluctantly, and ineffectively, acquiescing to her demands, worked out for you thus far? It seems to have empowered her to escalate her expectations that her expressed "feelings" have precedence over reality.

In the last email my wife is starting to blame me for coming between her and her dad in his last years.

And the process continues.

It is NOT a DJ to say to one's spouse, "I think you're wrong," and having a discussion about the matter at hand. You seem to have failed to do that, and the advice you're getting now will continue the path you trod previously.

Well, having NO fears of DJ'ing anyone, as regards the advice to curry to your wife's strange demands; "I think it's wrong!"

Here.

Complain About Your Spouse to Your Spouse

A missed appointment 15 years ago was probably one of a plethora of insults and sneaky disrespectful behaviour that Z's wife has been subjected to.

We are only hearing the story from Z's perspective, and he has clearly committed any number of lovebusters.




It is Marriage Builders advice, NG. Why don't you try to help Z save his marriage?

Z, I think you should urgently send an email to Dr. Harley.

(Brain, you're terrific at these citations, could you send him a link how to do this?)

Given that your mother is dying of cancer, this means that the standard procedure in POJA - do nothing until you reach an agreement - would lead to extreme long-term resentment on your part if you cannot see your mother before she dies.

I'd like to see what Dr. Harley's response would be. I'd also like to hear what our resident expert MelodyLane says here.

A missed appointment 15 years ago was probably one of a plethora of insults and sneaky disrespectful behaviour

He didn't list them (skipping to 2010) so why would you feel empowered to assume them?

Why don't you try to help Z save his marriage?

And why would you be espousing continuing the irresolute, acquiescent behavior that put his marriage in the condition it is?

If you want to define marriage as the dictatorship by the irrational over the timorous, well, their marriage has seen the results of that tactic. Not a particularly pretty picture, wouldn't you say?

Z is not being acquiescent at all, he's trying to get his own way by being dishonest (lying and sneaking behind his wife's back) and then he adds insult to injury by saying that she shouldn't find that upsetting and that she's exaggerating.

We don't know the full story here, only Z and his wife do, and only they can solve their problems. Pointing them to MB concepts that could help them solve it is what we're here for.

I do think that the situation has become extreme because it involves the mother potentially dying before this couple reaches POJA. The poster would be well-advised to consult the Harleys sooner rather than later.

Hi,
I appreciate all of your advice. Please send me a link to Dr. Harley,
thanks,
Zebedee

Here

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

The Harleys have a radio show where they address emails that they receive for free. They don't answer all emails so I suggest that you state the unique problem with POJA that you are faced with (that your mother may die before you and your wife can reach POJA, which would create enormous resentment for you).

You can also call the Harleys - they have a son and daughter who counsel married couples according to MB precepts. They are not cheap (I think $300/hour? I'm not sure) but highly experienced and - apparently, from what other forum members say - very effective.

Altenatively, you could try to find a marriage counsellor who practises MB concepts. Don't go to ones who don't, the forum is rife with stories of the absurd, even destructive advice they are given by such counsellors.

I also recommend again that you order Lovebusters ASAP and ask your wife respectfully whether she would agree to read it with you.

Z, I haven�t discussed the actual problem that your wife has with your family because I felt you should focus on you and your wife�s lovebanks but given recent comments from another poster, I feel I should point out crucial errors that your family made too.

So your wife had an abusive mother. Her father � I am guessing � probably did not stand up for his daughter.

Abuse from a parent when you are a vulnerable, dependent child has pernicious long-term effects that persist well into adulthood. Usually the abuser never says sorry or even thinks they did anything wrong. Some people maintain a difficult, toxic relationship with their abuser, and some cut ties.

The worst thing is when no one believes that you have been abused or people pretend that it didn�t happen (usually because it�s convenient to pretend, then you don�t have to do anything that might cause trouble for you). This invalidation of the abused child�s feelings leads to depression and worse. We see it all the time in the news how many of the poor children who were sexually, physically, and emotionally abused by clergy struggled in their adult lives and sometimes ended their life.

Your wife obviously tried to resolve her feelings for her mother when you and your family lived in her parents� city, but she couldn�t. When you left for Asia, your wife expressed her desire to keep her parents out of her life. This was her right, they were causing her pain, she wanted to remove this source of toxicity and get on with the rest of her life. You then created a big problem in your relationship with your wife by disregarding this wish. This was disrespectful. It also invalidated the pain your wife felt. You failed to show extraordinary care for your wife.

You compensated for this mistake by writing your MIL the letter telling her how much pain she had caused your wife. FIL then defended his wife, again invalidating his daughter�s feelings. Your wife (and you) ended contact.

As an aside, I cut contact with my alcoholic, destructive, five-times-married father when my kids came along. I wanted to spend the rest of my life being happy with and for my kids, not be upset all the time by drunken screaming phone calls in the middle of the night (that was the last straw). Believe me, it is horribly painful to cut a parent out of your life, NO ONE takes such decisions lightly. In my case, I struggled with the decision for 5 years after I finally took it. Perhaps your wife is also struggling with her own decision.

Now to your sister and your mother. They kept in contact with your wife�s parents despite your wife�s decision to cut her parents out of her life. So they too invalidated your wife�s feelings. It seems that no one, but no one, has taken your wife�s feelings about how she had been treated in her childhood seriously.

Did your sister and your mother not realize that their actions would gravely upset their DIL/SIL? It was disrespectful and bound to cause huge trouble. Which it did.

And when your mother �apologised�, she didn�t really mean it. Invalidation again.

Your mum and sister only have themselves to blame for enraging their DIL/SIL. They should have taken much better care of her feelings and you should have been her strong advocate when dealing with your family.

Good luck to you and your wife. Let us know how you get on.

Well, I was going to say that someone's crystal ball must be smoking with all the creation of actions, motivations, and intentions in the last note.

Is it feasible that the elements behind the actions of Z's mother and sister are so obvious, that they can be categorically defined here?

What we do know, and seems to have been buried in all this, is that Z's wife, carrying whatever baggage she chooses to bear, has executed the "hissy fit" approach to marital maintenance, shortened to "If Momma ain't happy, ain't NOBODY gonna be happy," and left for parts unknown. Z, conversely is here, remember? He is the one maturely trying to build a path for Mrs Z to return to the marriage (short of capitulating to her demands, yet again.) Excoriating him for HER reactions to his belated discovery that meekly agreeing (if not conforming) to her arbitrary and despotic mandates will only lead to heightened foolishness, is NOT helpful, IMHO.

Mirabelle, your post provides the MB analysis that this problem needs. With this knowledge, this poster can see how he needs to support his wife and work to restore his marriage, since that's what he wants to do.

Here.
Radio Clip of Different Kind of liars

Zebedee, I agree with the others that you very much need to email Dr Harley and get his assistance. He am even call you, but you need to discuss this with him. I find your situation very confusing and I believe he can help you sort it out in a way that protects your marriage. He may also ask that your wife get ahold of him. It is completely free advice and Dr Harley is often able to get to the crux of the issue very quickly.