Hi,

I have been reading a lot on this site for quite some time, trying to understand and sort my situation out, but today I feel beat. Dispirited.

I have been married for 6 years. I cannot have children, so we don't have any.

This is my husband's second marriage. He has a 10 year old daughter with his ex, and due to an affair with his ex almost 2 years ago, they also have a 1 year old son.

I have not seen the little boy, though my husband does, periodically. And obviously he already has his daughter, so he sees her as much as he can. His ex is very conflictive.

Probably anyone who has read what I wrote so far can see the situation is complicated, so please bear with me.

To my knowledge the affair is over. My husband and his ex appear to actually despise each other. At this point I generally stay completely out of that situation. Any involvement from me is not helpful.

So where we stand now is this: he is "back". affair is over but that situation due to the kids is volitile and upsetting. My husband feels that he is trying, but there are a few things going on that are triggers for me. In particular he made a woman friend about a year ago who is also friends with his ex and I am uncomfortable with this. He refuses to unfriend her and says she is harmless. She does appear to be fairly harmless, and my problem is not really with her. It's that he refuses to completely disengage from her. She knows I don't care for her, and she is pleasant to me, but sees no reason to back off from being friends with my husband.

This has really been something I am upset about and is the number one reason for a lot of negative reactions I have been having.

From his view, he is upset with me for "harming" other people. That is, when his ex approached me, for many years, after trying to be polite, and her attacking me, I lashed back at her. It didn't help. When he refused to back away from his woman friend, I felt triggered more and more, particularly since his son was born, and after many months of asking him to distance himself from her, and both refusing, I informed her husband and there was a lot of drama around that.

I kind of "lost it" for about 6 months over all of that, and everytime the lady came around I smacked at her and I argued with him. The woman friend sat and talked to me one day and said at this point my husband is not really her friend, but she is polite to him and trying to avoid drama. I don't know. At this point from what I can tell, this is true. He is still trying to be friends to her, in front of me, and I hate it.

Anyway, his main complaints to me are I cannot be trusted due to lashing out, he feels I told his ex too much that she shouldn't know and that caused problems. He feels I try to talk too much about the past and what happened and that is causing problems. He feels I may lash out at any time and that is killing his love for me.

Well, it is true. I really did lash out a lot. I tried to force him to stop being around his friend, I did argue with his ex.

In late December of 2012, though, after we had a very serious blow out, I felt I finally understood some things, and mostly what I realized is that my getting angry and blowing up in a massive rage every few weeks was closing lines of communication that we need open. And that outbursts made him feel he was not "safe". So I stopped. Immediately. We have had 2 months now of courteous communication from me, I have said nothing to his ex, despite some provocations. I am still requesting that he stay away from his woman friend, and he appears to have backed off considerably. Maybe there is something wrong with me for not being grateful for that, but mainly I want him to not talk to her at all. Also I NEVER had any problem before with any of his friends, male or female before. Only this one. He thinks she is just a trigger for me and since she is "not really a problem and isn't hurting anyone" he won't do more.

Today, I guess I made a mistake. I asked him why, when I have been clear on what I need in order to do what he asks, he refuses. I said I don't care if she is "harmless", it really bothers me. And I guess I wound myself up some emotionally, because I also pointed out to him after he told me I am not trustworthy and he is tired of me attacking and trying to hurt people ( his woman friend by telling her husband and his ex by telling her to eff off when she pestered me).

I told him, I hardly ever showed him upset for anything until he had this affair and the extra child appeared later.

He then explained to me that he doesn't really love me now. Because I am so damaging to other people in my strong emotional reactions to what he has done. He says he is tired of it and tired of me. He says he is trying to do things for me and I am "really stupid" not to see it.

Maybe he is.

I understand he finds it a "lovebuster" for me to try and talk and say how I feel, or I am having a bad week or day and I cry or ask him why he is choosing the actions he is taking.

After telling me today he does not love me, he is looking for someone who is not hurting other people and trying to cause harm... I pointed out my efforts and months of calm etc, and what more can I do? He said, "stupid woman! just be stable! And I don't want to talk anymore!"

Then he left the house.
It used to be I would persue. Call him or follow or something. I stopped doing that months ago.

I was maybe rude today. When he said he wanted "calm and stable" I pointed out that his actions impacted me and it was only after these things that I got so upset. I said it sounded like he thinks I am not good enough for him anymore because I am upset about the affair, the baby, his friend.

Don't know what to do Should I really just shut up about the affair, the baby, his friend?

Please don't smack me really hard. I am not a stubborn person in trying to do what works. I am hurting a lot and I feel he is being unfair to me. Though it is true, I was very reacting to these things in the last year, raging, vitriol, abusive language. I stopped all of that.

What else can I do?

Also, I wanted to add that at the time I really was "losing it" my mother and two sisters were killed in a car accident. Last July. I flew apart all over the place. I asked my husband for support, and he kind of disappeared on me and would not stop contact with his woman friend. Maybe I scapegoated people, but for me, I felt really blown apart, and I was tired of that woman. And I was tired of the ex, and I was tired of the baby.

Normally I have a lot more self control, but the combination of the affair, the loss of part of my family, the child, the woman friend. I just lost it and wasn't really able to get control again.

6 months of crazy I guess

I am better now, but a lot of damage from my side from all of the grief and anger and lashing out.

Hi Crystaline, welcome to Marriage Builders. What your husband is doing is called gaslighting.
Your husband has already put you through unmitigated holy hell with his affair and resultant affair child, and he not only continues his pisspoor boundaries around other women, but gaslights you when you object. He is playing chicken with your marriage but you are the one who gets hit by the car every time. Your husband is dangerous, reckless and abusive.

Your marriage never recovered from the 1st affair and what typically happens in these cases are 2nd, 3rd and 4th affairs. Your H is already headed toward his 2nd affair. The conditions that led to his first affair were never changed. The affair was just swept under the rug.

What you should do is focus on recovering your marriage. If he won't agree to these conditions, then you don't have a marriage and would be better off divorced. If he doesn't change, you are going to endure many more affairs in the future. The past will be your future.

Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to his Xwife that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA] He should NEVER have contact with her again. Any pertinent communications should be handled by an intermediary along with child exchanges.

Set him down and explain that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell him you are willing to give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you:

1. end all contact with the OW for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about his affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage with repeat affairs.

Basically his response to me is that he cares for me very much and is taking some actions for me, but he "cannot love someone who gets mad on a whim, I am not looking for that."

He also says that "I'm really tired of you causing problems and hurting people including me because things are not going way you want."

Essentially he is not willing to do what I am asking because I have been so upset and lashing out at him and constantly questioning him.

I have stopped lashing out but I am still asking questions. And "hurting people" is because I smacked his ex around and his woman friend by telling her husband she was invasive to my marriage. My husband says I humiliated him and tried to ruin his friend's marriage.

He is refusing to take the steps you laid out here, MelodyLane.

Probably I really am only "cared" for and not loved. I really want to come down on him and list out again to him what he did and link to him that I would never have gotton so upset if he had not cheated, the baby, the lies, the disrespect and lack of support. He appears to believe these are all optional things and since he let me down and I got mad, the problem is mine.

Did I say yet I am tired too and there are days I want to pack a suitcase and just walk away and not come back? I have left before for a day and he tells me to "stop being such a little girl".

I literally do not know what to do with my emotions anymore.

There is your answer. If he cared for you, he would stop doing the things that cause your suffering. But he has told you that he won't. You just have to accept that you can't change him and respond accordingly. Can you accept a future in a marriage that WILL experience more affairs, abuse and gaslighting? If so, then you have your guy.

But you won't be a victim anymore if you stay and accept his abuse; you will be a volunteer.

With regards to the female 'friend' your WH has, the way you describe this it does not sound at all platonic. At best this is an EA, possibly a PA. What snooping have you done to find more out about this relationship?

Even if it WERE platonic, to have a strong marriage your WH should not be allowing others to fill his love bank, it should only be open TO YOU.

And may I add, the fact that you his wife are so bothered by a meaningless friend should be so disturbing to him that he should end all contact with her to protect and care for you. The fact that he won't says that either she is more than just a platonic friend, or he has no interest in protecting and caring for you. I would wager both are true.

I would do some snooping to find more out about this 'friendship.'

Please read.

Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marraige?

He has told me that he doesn't feel I deserve his consideration right now because I lashed out.

Do you understand. He is refusing his assistence on the basis I LB so much AO that he is so destroyed by me that he cannot make himself open up for fear I will lash out again and cause more harm.

It is true. I was a raging fool for almost a year.

I stopped all of that a couple of months ago. I do persist in trying to talk to him about things that happened and he finds that very upsetting. I still feel very bad. That is why I keep telling him how I feel. It's like he has no empathy or remorse. He apologized a few times but seems to think that should be the end of it.

His friend lives 900 miles away and her husband is sitting on her like a flea on a dog. Half the time I think my husband is refusing to accommidate me just because he knows it really bothers me.

I understand that he is using your lovebusting behavior as an excuse for HIS lovebusting, lack of boundaries, and lack of care of protection. Do YOU understand this?

You are responsible for the behavior that you have had, the AO's and other LBing. Even though I tend to want to cut you some slack based on the fact that you have had a VERY difficult couple years (and I am sorry for the loss of your family members, how tragic), you are still responsible for it. It sounds like you know that and have worked hard to get control of your own behavior.

But you are NOT responsible for his poor behavior right now. He is responsible for that.

It sounds like his love bank is very low, and he does not have the desire to work toward a good marriage with you.

I would suggest you set up some counseling with the coaching center. Perhaps Steve Harley can persuade him to start working the MB program.

Meanwhile, Plan A him to build up love units in his love bank, while continuing to snoop to verify he is not engaging in an A with his 'friend,' and while insisting he begin to work the MB program so that you can BOTH have a better marriage than you have ever had.

If he does not get on board within a short period of time however, I would look toward a Plan B seperation. He has had one A, one OC, he is still in contact with his AP (OC's mama), he continues to have poor boundaries and IB, he is likely engaging in yet ANOTHER EA at the least, and he seems to give a hoot what you think about all this. AO's are abusive, and SO IS THIS. If he will not commit to ending his relationship with AP1 and his current 'friend' and work toward a better marriage using the MB principles, you should not be with him.

MANY A's on here have begun with a long distance AP, so if you are using that as an excuse to say that he cannot possibly be hooking up with her, it is not one. Even if he is just communicating inappropriately, in an EA, having his lovebank filled by her, he will begin to withdraw from you, rewrite your history, and close his love bank to YOU. So it can be equally destructive, regardless of the miles.

As far as her husband watching her, does this mean she is not allowed to contact your WH? Because it sounded to me like they continue communication, despite your and her husbands demands they stop. Which, btw, would likely NOT happen with some meaningless platonic 'friend.' So obviously he does not have a good leash on her.

Finally, if your WH had an A, fathered a child with that OW, and now demands that you just 'get over it' and continues to rub that in your face while maintaining his wayward lifestyle, all to purposely HURT you at a time when you are experiencing deep personal tragedy, that is downright abusive and cruel.

Also, may I suggest you move this over to the SAA forum, where you may get more responses.

He explained to me the thing about hurting.

He said he made choices that he knew would hurt me but that they were not done to hurt me. While my lashing out was done to hurt him. It's true. I was so angry, hurt and frustrated that I when I lost control of myself, I wanted to hurt him back. So I said things and told his friend's husband and I told his ex things I knew would make her mad.

But ok, I stopped.

He and his ex are not going to stop having contact. They don't think it's sensible. They already have the older girl.

Honestly, I see what is being said here and I "get" it, but I think unwritten is totally right. My husband sees himself as so mistreated by me that he is not willing to step it up for me because his feelings are so low. I can tell you, I know this man, he really will not do for me anything unless he feels good about me.

As for the marriage before the affair.. he was so precious to me. I did everything I could to please him and build him up. I never wanted to do anything to make him think less of me. And he points to those years and the happiest ones he has had, then his ex, who has always been hard to handle.. well I don't know how it all went down because he won't talk about it.

I tried very hard, still after the affair and the baby showed up. It took about 6 months for me to lose it and become so angry, which did coincide with my family loss. It was just too much for me at that time.

He said to me today that I didn't understand he is taking steps and he does care very much. But no love for me because he is tired of me being so terrible. I did lash out significantly at him about 5 times last year and once at his friend by telling her husband. In between I tried very hard to be in control.

Anyway, it's been a couple of months and he has come back from planning to file for divorce because I lashed out in November at him, to saying he is "soft hearted" and came back to try again, and I am doing very well, but he isn't "ready" to open back up again.

I know I am the only one here for you guys to talk to, but I want to say it feels really crushing to have all of that happen and it not be "meant to hurt you" but my upset back is considered malicious to the extant that HE can't trust me.

I don't think that a showdown right now on pushing those requests will get him to work with me on all of those things.

I don't know how to get the thread moved.

He and I talked and he told me flat out that he doesn't want anything from me and I should leave him. His reason? First he feels that what happened is in the past and I keep dragging it up and am constantly upset. Which upsets him and keeps everything upset. And he doesn't want to make a future with a person as unstable and out of control as me.

Second, he says he is "allergic" to being pressured into anything and flat out refuses to do any of the suggestions from here.

Except this:

He wants a clean slate. No discussion about the past. If I talk about it, he is ending the marriage. His counter offer to me is be quiet, I am to work very hard to become mentally and emotionally stable, he will continue any contact he feels he needs to or wants to have with his ex and children,( though he clearly despises the lady and avoids her whenever he can) and he WILL continue to have as many women friends as he feels like in whatever way he wants, though he does say that basically he is not interested in any of them in "that way".

I asked why he wants to handle it this way.

He says all you want is to have a constant war, and in his experience people who prepare for war GET war and people who prepare for peace GET peace. And what he has outlined will bring peace and what I have outlined simply perpetuates the conflict.

And due to my persistent attempts to cause conflict and getting upset and going off on him and his ex and this woman friend he has, HE has disatnced himself and HE is not interested in doing what I am asking because HE doesn't feel like it. In order to get what I am asking for I am to work to regain HIS trust and HIS feelings and when HE feels like I have done that, then HE will take more steps to do as I am asking. Then he told me he would not discuss it further because he doesn't trust me not to use the information he gives to hurt him and others.

Atm, I have backed off and am very sad and angry.

Do I just start a new thread in the other part of the forum or can this one be moved.

Crystaline,

At the bottom of your post is a little box that says "Notify". Click on that box and it will bring up a format that has a space to write the reason for your Moderator Notification. Write in that box that you'd like your thread moved to Surviving an Affair.

Hi just checking in. I just want to say that I fianny got back wit my husband and it has been hard as well as not sometime. He has keep in contact with the person he had the affair with and that hurts really bad. He says no more but here we go again. Any advice?

Sammid, please post your update on your own thread. I have bumped it for you. If you refresh your web page you will see it. It's called New Thread for Sammid. That way you won't be interrupting this poster's thread and we'll be able to keep your story together.