Wilderness, how can we help you? It seems nothing has changed and your only reason for coming back is to state your own beliefs which contradict MB. Might I suggest instead you consider the marriage advice by someone who has saved many marriages, instead of your own which are backed up by a failed marriage.

wilderness, I think it would be best for you to use Dr. Harley's Plan B. Continued contact with your ex-wife is only going to cause you more pain. It is best that you protect yourself.

I am sorry for your pain. You will find many people here who understand it and are willing to offer you all of the support possible.

I can't begin to comment on how annoying it is when people mischaracterize my situation. Is it intentional? I'll never know.

I have specifically and repeatedly told this forum that my XW was fully on board with an exclusive relationship; in fact we were engaged to be remarried!

I have to decide by friday to vacate the judgment and start over, or not.

Wow, talk about hypocrisy. Have you learned nothing from your illicit adulterous affairs?

I'm amazed anyone is still posting to you. You've got a chip on your shoulder the size of Texas.

Well, it's not like this hasn't all been said before, but since this is MarriageBuilders, and this clear program that really works is what is taught around here, I'll stick with MB advice.

Best plan:

1. Once RO has been dropped, Plan A for 3-6 months. Then Plan B for up to two years, or until such time as your WXW agrees to a whole new concept of marriage, and implements it in her life through ACTIONS. Starting with NC with OM and any past boyfriends.
2. Both of you slowly build an integrated, open life that leaves no room for a secret second life. This integrated life has no space in it for a third person, whether an OM/OM or a MIL. Her mother may even need to be cut off completely in order for any R to work. Your mother doesn't sound toxic like that, but would still need to keep out of your relationship, if that was ever an issue.
3. After a R has been well-established for a significant period of time, consider remarriage.
4. Live happily ever.

Second-best plan:

1. Go straight to Plan B. Hey, with the RO you're pretty much there, anyway.
2. Both of you slowly build an integrated, open life that leaves no room for a secret second life. This integrated life has no space in it for a third person, whether an OM/OM or a MIL. Her mother may even need to be cut off completely in order for any R to work. Your mother doesn't sound toxic like that, but would still need to keep out of your relationship, if that was ever an issue.
3. After a R has been well-established for a significant period of time, consider remarriage.
4. Live happily ever after.

Third-best plan:

1. Go NC with WXW, but without an Plan B letter or expression of willingness to R.
2. Let the D stand.
3. Fight for as much custody of your child as you can get.
4. Live happily ever after.

Worst plan:

1. Let the RO stand.
2. Let the custody arrangement stand.
3. Allow yourself to be drawn into conflict with your MIL.
4. Resist any desire to make and execute a plan.
5. Attack anyone who might be willing to help you make and execute a plan. Be sure to call them names. After all, if they were smart, they would never have ended up on an infidelity board anyway.
6. When WXW comes crawling back, sorry for what she's missing out on but unwilling to radically change her mindset and lifestyle that led to her cheating, take her back.
7. Prepare to get cheated on again.


I hope you pick any of the first 3 plans. All 3 will work. All 3 will lead to a happy, fulfilling life for you, whether your WXW ever gets on board or not.

She is giving exactly the same advice Dr. Harley would give.

If you don't like it, you probably need to pick a different forum.

Your problem can be solved with Dr. Harley's Plan B. You cannot right the wrongs of the past, and you will make yourself perpetually miserable trying to do so. You need to become emotionally independent of your ex-wife so that you can build a happy present and future. Plan B is the tool to do that. We would be happy to help. (Although if you persist in insulting my wife, we won't.)

Every contact with your wife will set you back emotionally, so you need to avoid contact with your wife for now. You are here posting (after being gone for nearly three months) because some recent contact with her or reminder of her triggered you, aren't you?

I agree this would be best, but Plan A can only be accomplished by keeping your emotions in check and forcing yourself to act in a way that goes against your emotions for awhile.

wilderness seems to be very emotional. I do not believe he could accomplish Plan A without taking antidepressants and starting seriously relaxation therapy as Dr. Harley describes in his article "How to Negotiate When You are a Really Emotional Person." I just don't think he could do it - he needs to make himself NOT be demanding, disrespectful, or angry, and right now he is riding with his emotions and doing those three things every time he feels like it.

If wilderness really wanted to turn this around he would need to stop those three things, and as powerful as his emotions are, he would probably need antidepressants to help even out the lows so he would do the right thing and act rationally even when his emotions are prompting him otherwise.

My thinking is that wilderness just wants to vent his negative emotions here, which is useless, and will keep him miserable for the rest of his life.

How about you take the name of Jesus Christ off of your signature, at least while you are throwing stones at adulteresses.

I fully agree that the substeps of Plan A (and B) would need a lot of work. AD's might indeed be what it would take to bring about more stability.

I'm so grateful for all the people on here who "went and sinned no more". Without them, I wouldn't still be married, and a lot of other people who received help here would likely be D'd, also.

What I said was a little harsh and I'm sorry for that. The point remains, however, and is a valid one. To flippantly say that one would advise my wife to avoid me based on one sentence that I wrote- very hypocritical and borderline outrageous.

Has your outlook on this changed since November?
Dr Harley would probably advise you to stop making demand and disrespectful judgements.
Have you read any of his books?
Do you listen to the Radio Show daily? There is a free app to install
It on your phone and listen at no charge

I honestly think she wants to get back together, but I don't know what to do. She hasn't taken responsibility for anything that she's done. Or very little, anyway.

It's posted all over your thread. If you'll read back to front, you can start with Jedi_Knight's excellent suggestion about Dr. Harley's FREE radio show.

How about you go back and reread your thread, and then you will know what to do?

No, not really. It is what Dr. Harley would advise her to do. You have said yourself that you have no plans to protect her and will continue to bring up the past. If that is what you plan to do to her, then you have no business being anywhere around her. She should Plan B you.

Interesting signature. You know, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And I want to help you desperately. But it sounds like you are ignoring our help if we are writing so much and you make hostile responses and then say "I don't know what to do" as if no suggestions have been made to you at all.

We know what to do, and we are telling you, because we want to help you. We've received freely, and given to you freely, and been answered with disrespect. Should we just knock your dust off of our feet and move on?

Sir, the truth is I'm not doing too well right now. Please forgive me. I don't want to go into too many details; at least not at the moment.
I'm sorry.

I have absolutely been there, friend.

Please, we seriously want to help you. My best suggestion for you is to implement Dr. Harley's Plan B, which will probably help you begin to feel much better.

Neak's post also contains a lot of very good alternative suggestions.

It is totally understandable that you would be feeling horrible after what you have been through, and we would like to help you.

My sympathies for your pain. You will feel better once you have a plan, and begin to follow it. Cheating sucks any way you slice it, but it begins to suck less once you realize that you're actually the one in charge of where your life goes from here, and not just at the mercy of a cruel cheater.

The affair is over...I don't think plan B fits.
My big thing right now is, why would she not voluntarily give up custody of our child? She has proven that her decision making is horrible. She has proven that she is not a good mother (at least over the last year). I'm in between a rock and a hard place. I can't believe the nerve of her expecting to retain custody after her affair. (yet apparently wanting to reconcile)
If she would give up custody and pay me and my mother back what she owes us (or at least start to pay us back), this would be a much easier decision.

Plan B is to help you recover. Plan B should almost always be used after an affair if the marriage has not been reconciled. Plan B should always be used when you are incredibly emotional and hurting. It is exactly what you need when you are so emotional that you are lashing out at people who try to help you.


Since she has not made right decisions so far, why would you expect her to suddenly start making right decisions now?

There is no way you can make her do what you want or what you think she should do. Obsessing over why she makes the choices she makes is only a path to permanent misery for you, wilderness. This is why you need Dr. Harley's Plan B.