Glad you two came to a solution that you both enthusiastically agreed to. And I have to say that it is a fair one. Though I do hope that you would not hesitate to expose a friend in an EA in the future, inspite of this agreement.

It would appear, on balance, that FM is not so much interested in ENROLLING in the MB Recovery Program, as in AUDITING the course!

- Instead of accepting the guidance of what should be done to satisfy the injured heart of her BH, she would prefer to give us excuses and (somewhat comical) rationalizations for her continued disregard of his feelings. ("I felt it was more important to be a relief-valve for my friend's need to tell someone of her illicit plans than defend my husband's psyche on this exact matter!")

- Twice now I have posed a simple question to her. Since the first posting, she has responded three (four?) times with additional justifications for herself, without answering the question, the answer to which would lay bare her faulty attitude.

Her grade so far is "Incomplete".

This week has been more on track but we are still missing out on fully utilizing UA time. Does anyone have tips on how to make sure we get it all in when life gets in the way? We sat down Sunday and made a schedule for the week but a household emergency caused us to completely skip it Tuesday and Wednesday we were both feeling very stressed, which took a toll on our time together and ability to fully connect. Most nights when he gets home we spend about an hour together and then by the time we make and have dinner, shower, and clean up, we're just about ready for bed. I know quality UA time is better spent when we're not falling asleep but it seems like there just aren't enough hours in the day to get everything done.

When life gets in the way, do the UA time first and let the rest of "life" wait. If UA time were the number one priority, it would always occur.

Did your house fall down? Did you have a major car accident? Was your household emergency on the magnitude of these?

AM

hi fm. i'm glad to see your thread active again. i'm sorry to hear of the recent hubbub over the event with your mutual friends, but recovery is chock full of unhappy events as you make mistakes and learn and grow. it won't be the first, and right now especially your BH is going to be frightfully sensitive to any whiff of cheating - on tv, in films, with people at work - never mind having to do with his own best friend. i'm not going to say anything more on this topic, because i think it's already been said by others, except to say that your BHs reaction (to it and you afterwards) does not surprise me one bit.

gloveoil has given you some very good suggestions about UA time. it does take time to change our habits/mentality and put our Ms first and foremost on the list. but, over a period of months (if you work it), you will both learn how to. it gets easier after that - you will both *want* to put the M first on the agenda for the week!

my own H and i work long hours, and we make weekends really count - all day, all night, just us 2. during the week we eat dinner every night at the dining room table after preparing the meal together - that helps too after a busy day, but as mel will point out, UA time should be special. you have no children to keep the two of you from maximizing your time! at this point, we get cranky if something tries to interrupt "our time." only dire emergencies (child involved in car accident, things like that) are allowed to interfere.

i want to say a word on that 'f' that been used on this thread. just two months ago, fm showed up here having committed adultery. she and her bh are only just this minute really starting recovery (fm, are you going to ask to move your thread over to recovery?). there has been little time for fm to have learned and implemented care for her spouse and marriage. i am surprised that anyone would refer to her as a former wayward without any concrete evidence of such (and time to have made that evidence reliable). she may be repentant, she may be ready to work on recovery, but she is by no means "former" until she has worked the programme. i don't think any bs's here have handed out an F to their own wayward in such a short period of time. i doubt fm's bh would be referring to her as an f. why are we? recovery is hard, worthwhile work. please don't cheapen it by giving an unearned title out where it isn't yet deserved. the last thing a ww needs is (more?) bravado.

fm, i'm really glad to see you back, and rooting for your and your husband to make it through recovery. it's a bumpy road, so please do keep posting so you can get the help you will need as you work through the programme. sometimes, as you've already discovered, it will be surprisingly hard. the posters here can help clarify things for you. and, as always, we want you to have a successful, happy marriage, even when it seems like we're being hard on you. perhaps even more during those times.

i would love to hear what your UA time looks like this week, and where you are in surviving an affair/his needs, her needs/lovebusters. i forget - will you be doing the online programme?

I am going to post these questions every day, FM, until you stop hiding your own diffident feelings about affairs from yourself by answering them.

Would you have accepted your BH's violation of the "privacy" of your discussions to attempt to save the other man's life?

If so, why do you resent BH's violation of the "privacy" of your discussions to attempt to save the other man's marriage?

The household emergency was a busted water heater. It leaked through the drywall and into the house so it was absolutely necessary to make stopping the water flow a top priority.

I think my honest answer to this would be selfish. If in the hypothetical you gave about a secret to kill her husband, I would not ask my husband to not tell his friend because if my friend went through with it she would have committed murder and I would no longer wish to be her friend. On the other hand, I would not turn my back on my friend for doing something I did and she did not turn her back on me.

I really did think long about this about what I would do if the situation were reversed. if my husband came to me and said that he has a friend thinking about killing his wife but asked him not to tell, he is only telling me because we don't have secrets with each other but but he wants to keep his friend's confidence and is trusting me to do so. Would I try to convince him otherwise? Absolutely everyday. Would I say something if H had made it very clear he did not want me to? I really don't think I would. I don't know if I would feel different if I were the bs instead of the ws but as the ws, I would be scared to cause the strain that would come from breaking his trust no matter the reason.

FM,

I do see where you are coming from and understand that you are hurt that your H went behind your back. I don't think anyone on here is asking you to justify what he did but rather justify why he did it.

There were/are so many times when I want to yell "What about me" and sometimes I do. I then have to take a step back and say "what about us".

Our biggest struggle is still making sure we POJO each other on everything...even little things. I realize that this is a work in progress. We are both still guilty of making decisions without checking with the other spouse. What do we do when we make these mistakes
1. Point it out in a non accusing way
2. Discuss how the action made us feel
3. Try to work on it, together


That is really all you can do.


My suggestion is leaving your friends problems alone for now and continuing to work on the two of you. GO gave you some great advice (and me too).


Marriage is always a work in progress but it is the best job you can have!!!!

We are pretty much past the issue with our friends. We are trying to stay out of it, that time is better spent on us.
I think I'm a little unclear on what is and is not UA time and how to decide what to do and what not to do. Today for example, we will be spending most of the day helping his friend move. Not ua time but when he told his friend we had plans in the morning and could help in the afternoon, his friend started sending multiple texts a day saying they really needed the help in the morning, could we change our plans, so we ended up changing them to be available. If I were not concerned about ua time I would nothave thought twice but now I worry that although we'll be together all day, the fact that it isn't UA time on the day we usually get in 8 hours will throw off the week. But on the flip side, I want to show support for H wanting to help his friend, which is important to him as well. Plus if he had told his friend no, he would have felt guilty all day which also would have effected our time.
But the main question I have is what is and what isn't? Typically we are not more than 25 feet away from each other from 5-530 when he gets home until 7 when he leaves for work the next morning during the week but weusually only count 2-3 hours of UA time a night.
If we go to church together, we are not talking and we are not alone so does that count? If we watch a movie together at home does that count? What about if its in a theater? Cooking? Doing dishes? Reading MB or the Bible? Watching tv? Going for a walk or to the gym? Shopping? Driving places? Lunch with his parents? I want to try to be as accurate and realistic as I can be about how much UA time were getting in but for all I know we could be spending 100 hours a week together and still not meeting the 25 of UA.

Fm, thank you for the honest answer. I admit to being surprised at your admission that a man's murder would mean less to you than potentially losing the friendship of the prospective murderess by participating in its prevention.

There are so many ways to take this line of exploration further, but the initials after my name do not indicate I'd be qualified to do so. However, one more question must be asked, if you don't mind:

Assuming you failed to act, and the murder was committed, would you be countenancing maintaining that friendship thereafter?

Holy crap.

Wait a sec....I realize this is a hypothetical here, but you do realize this would make you - and your H - accessories to the crime, right?

So how is it different when it comes to covering up adultery? Adultery is a crime as well...one that results in the death of a marriage.

When you know something is wrong, yet you sit idly by and do nothing...it is exactly like allowing the poor man to walk down a street, knowing that at the other end stands someone with a loaded gun.

Look, been there, done that. A dear friend of mine was cheating on her college boyfriend. H and I, dating at the time, both knew and I asked him not to get involved, because he wanted to tell the boyfriend, and I valued my friendship. I see things differently now, and I'm not the same stupid girl I was in college. No, it wasn't a marriage, I understand that...but it was an exclusive dating relationship that was long-term, and the importance of O&H can't be underestimated - dating is like an interview for marriage, right? So the boyfriend should have been made aware that my friend - as much as I love her - had failed the interview.

Incidentally, she married the guy she cheated with, and he ended up cheating on her...but they have been able to recover their marriage, and trust me when I say she isn't the same girl she was in college, either.

What must occur is a shift in your way of thinking, FM. A shift that requires you to value the sanctity of marriage - of anyone's marriage - over all else. A marriage is a living, breathing thing that adultery kills just as a loaded gun in the hands of a murderer takes a life.

ETA: you would not be "turning your back on" your friend. You would be saving her from the very mistake that you have made. That is true friendship.

No, I would not continue the friendship if a murder did take place.

This is a supremely stupid hypothetical but....unless they kept it secret for the purpose of assisting in the killing, no, it wouldn't.

Did that BF find out he was cheated on?

*****edit****

****edit****. This is FM's thread, not my dead horse, though.

****edit*****

This is a supremely stupid hypothetical...

No, it's not. It is, as it was labeled, an extension into the extreme used to isolate the principles at work. And frankly, I think it revealed something very telling about Fm.

Even at the extreme example posted, her (remarkably) honest response was to place the situation into a frame that was limited only to the impact upon her, and actually, an extremely short-sighted outlook of that impact as well.

It would be well if she can see the weaknesses in such a consideration. It is a reflection of both elevated self-interest ("better a dead hubby than a lost friendship") and conflict-avoidance ("stopping her actions would lead to confrontation"), that rarely lead to long-term happiness and well-being.