Hi, new member but long time lurker. I think I used to have a handle on here but I can't remember what it is.

My WH and I have been married for almost 4 years, together for over 8. We have young children together, 7, 5, & 2.

WH was first busted cheating after the birth of our second daughter. Still hirts because he started it a week after she was born. He ended it because he got caught, the OW had no clue about me and was very apologetic and angry (her fiance had cheated on her). He eventually fessed up to all the details of the A and I was able to move on. I felt I had forgiven an although at times it hurt, I kept it to myself as yo not start any fights, plus talking to her one on one helped with the closure.

Anyway, we have had a lot of ups and downs mostly regarding what I consider womanizing. He has and maintains old and new friendships woth (mostly) single women. I have told him time and again that this is not normal or acceptable behavior for a married man but he sees nothing wrong with it as he is just a "friendly guy who cant control the women who fall for him. I found out that several of these woman he kissed and possibly had sex. He also tends to get very emotionally attached to these friendships...
i had enough and did a plan A. Things were good for about a year but the damage was done for me emotionally. I was pregnant with our 3rd when I met another "friend" of his.
We seperated a year later, i moved out of the state and he did not come visit once. He did plan trips to his home state though. During one of these trips he reconnected with another friend. They developed and emotional affair. Although I strongly believe there was intimacy too.

Now here is the delimma. On new years we started talking about reconciliatio
n. I had implimented Plan B prior to this so up until New Years there was hardly any communication. We agreed to try again and agreed to being honest and giving full disclosure on if we had been dating, relationships...I told him about a guy I casually dated and he said there was no one.

Kids and I moved back in on Jan 27, things were going well but I notice he is emotionally distant. On Valentines Day he sent me a text to say happy V day. That was all I got. Seriously, not even a hug or a verbal Vday when he got home. When he got home from work I checked his phone and he had a text from a woman saying "so glad to hear you say that, i love you with all my soul, wish i could spend this day of lovers with you" i flipped. He denied like crazy. Eventually he stupidly let me look at his facebook and the proof of the emotional affair was there. As well as comments about kissing and I Love Yous. He said she was an old friend who had known since he was 7, the kiss comment was about their first kiss as children (it wasnt, the context didnt match) and that he cant control what other people write. He said he loved her as a long time friend and told her but wasnt in love. Sshe on the other hand appears to be head over heels madly in love. To the point that he had almost 15 deleted voicemails from her (that werent actually deleted) say
How madly in love she is. There was also one very graphic voicemail of her having voicemail sex with him.

Now i dont care that he dated during the seperation but the moment we agreed to stary again he should have neen honest and most importantly should have ended it. He claims he.did.tell her it was over the day i agreed to come back andthat when he CALLED her to wish her happy V day it was to as a friend and that he hopes she finds someone that makes her happy.
We fought, I flipped he said it was nothing amd said his relationship with her is normal. I disagreed and posted the text ln facebook and asked people what they thought, blocked out the names and made it vague. Everyone, including several of his friends said it was dishonest and more than friends
He called her the next day (not in front of me) and claims he told her how inappropriate her texts were and how livid i was and how pissed he was. He said her response was "oh you didnt erase it?" Which to me says he didnt end it or she is conniving and wanted him to get caught.

Anyway we sort of worked through it. He agreed tl post a public facebook status apologizing for his wrongdoing and hurting his wife and called me by name. I felt it was a good way to accept accountability.

As a condition of him posting and "humiliating himself" i was to drop the subject. Well today i found a letter she wrote and mailed to him from January that he saved where she said she was excited they decided to take the next step in their relationship....she lives in another state BTW. It totally infuriated me and I went back to square one. He said there was no relationship. He saod he lied because he didnt want to make me upset bit in retrospect he wished he had been honest because as of now things are terrible (he also said this after Valentines day).

How are we supposed to move forward when this chick keeps popping up. He also brougt up that I deleted the pictures of her off his phone. Im like why do you care? He said he just noticed when he was looking at pics of the kids. Im thinking tjat maybe he is going through withdraws from his emotional conmection to her.


Im at my breaking point. We do have a pending divorce in that i just need to have him served.


I feel I will never be able to trust him and even when i came back with all intentions on making it work and starying fresh i feel like he is repeating the cycle. He said himself tonight that he did nothing wrong and that he doesnt consider any of these women relationships, even the woman i mentioned above who he saw for aboit 4 months.

I need help. Im ready to book a fligjt and leave tomorrow because he shows zero remorse.

He



Please excuse my manu typos! Im on a phone!

I also want to add that i have told our two oldest daughters about the other woman and they were very upset with him. It amazes me that even they, at 5 and 7 know that having another person in the mix is wrong. WS was pissed and I admit that it was hard because we are all so conditioned into thinking we arent supposed to parent that way but I feel his lies and maintaining the relationship is just as against them as it is me. He says i am trying to warp their minds against him but hes done a good enough job of that on hois own. Plus why lie and why sugar coat what he did. I asked how he would feel if years from now the girls came to us crying because their husband or boyfriend was doing this to them, he was it would be different for them...so its ok to do to me butnot tjem....great example dad.

Welcome to MB.

Since you've been a long time lurker, do you understand the drill?

First off, do you want to stay married to him?

Who knows about all his affairs? Does this OW know about you? He needs to write a NC letter to her, which you approve and send.

The only way this will work, is IF your WH makes radical changes. No phone without spyware put on it and no OS friendships.

Strong boundaries with complete transparency. Do you think he can do this?

Have you been STD tested?

Yes i for the most part get the drill but being back in the saddle is tough so it helps to talk it out and get reminders

I do want to make it work but at the same time am very hurt. This cycle keeps repeating with him and i hate the pain.

He said he called to tell her it was over and after the text said he called and told her how inappropriate. I dont know how willing he will be to send a NC letter.

The problem is that several of his friends dont like me and one told him I deserved to be cheated on. He is friends with this woman as well so my lack of trust makes me fear that if anything they will relay messages through him.

Ive had my problems with not meeting my WHs ENs and have left him several times because of the cheating or womanizing which he turns around and changes history to benefit his agenda...lots of his friends, including some of his family hate me to the point of threatening. He chalks it up to them being all talk but wont end it with these people or tell them to back off.

I love him and wanted to start fresh and really try to have a family unit but as i write it sounds like such a terrible situation.

You both need to read and follow the recovery plan in Surviving an Affair by Dr Willard Harley.
His plan creates romantic love and ensures that precautions are taken to avoid affairs.

email the radio show. Mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. Also download the app on to your phone and listen to the show. I personally believe him to be a serial cheater and has to change on his own. Get advice straight from Dr. H on this.

Have you read the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders? You both seem to have a Renter attitude, even in marriage.

Also, I am confused at how you have been a long time lurker yet seem to have implemented very few of Dr Harley's principles to your own marriage.

What EP's were put into place to set boundaries around your marriage and protect it from another A? Why would you just 'move on' or forgive without creating a NEW marriage where affairs were not possible? Do you know what Dr Harley says about forgiveness? What did your WH do to EARN forgiveness?


So you did NOT create a marriage that has protection from further affairs. And subsequently, your WH is a serial cheater. You have asked him to stop and he has laughed in your face.


Are you familiar with WHEN and WHY and HOW LONG you do a Plan A. Plan A is done for a maximum of 3 weeks for a woman, due to the emotional damage being with an adulterer causes. Plan A'ing for 1 year with a man who is openly a serial cheater is no MB plan at all.


You realize that seperation does not mean DIVORCED it means MARRIED so there is no such thing as 'casual dating.' You also had an affair.

If you were talking about reconciliation, what PLAN was there to reconcile. What boundaries were created, what precautions, to make sure that this did not happen again?


Since you were still MARRIED when you were seperated, you should care that he continued to have affairs.


Although I do not think you should sweep 'this chick' under the rug, I do think you have a much bigger issue to deal with than just this particular OW. There are MANY OW's in your story (and one OM). Your WH is a serial cheater, and you are expecting nothing from him in terms of creating boundaries or extraordinary precautions to protect your M. When this OW moves on, there will just be another one

You are operating your marriage with NO PLAN mommy. That is the problem. If you want to heal your marriage from the vast infidelity that has gone on, and create a marriage where there will be no more infidelity, then you need to have a PLAN of how to do that.

Surviving an Affair should be your first read. Your serial cheating husband will need to read it also and commit to the very narrow path of recovery. I would highly suggest you work with the coaching center as your marriage has a lifelong pattern of serial cheating and no plan, you will need a lot of help to change this pattern.

If your WH is not interested in the recovery plan or creating a marriage that is protected from future affairs, you need to divorce, or you will undoubtedly live like this for the rest of your married life.

Thanks for the info. I will reread the book. Maybe i shouldnt have mentioned that ive been here before because some posts i feel are more attacking because some dont think i followed the plans. Recently i havent but I did in the past and things were good. Time happened and things reverted to how they were. Sad and Im just as much to blame but Im here to get back on track so please, be nice.

During the seperation we agreed that we were not together and dating, should the opportunity arise, was ok. May not be PC by MB standards but in retrospect it was obviously a bad decision on both ends.

I willread more about serial cheaters.

The things i thought we had implemented to prevent other affairs was open disclosure, ceasing all contact with any others, spending more time together as a couple sans the kids, and being honest. I guess i wad under the impression he wanted it as badly as me so i wrongly assumed we were on the same page.

The main issue with him is that he doesnt consider these women affairs or cheating. Are people with this mindset a lost cause? Has anyone with tbis kind of WS ever been able to "fix" the problem?

Perhaps some of you would be kind enough to rewalk me through everything and help me rebuild and plan.

Another issue I have is that one of his ENs is sexual. I dont enjoy sex with him and only last night realized that I think it stems from his first affair aftper the baby was born. I think I internalized the pain and since then it has been a struggle. How to BS get over an issue like this? Even when things we good between us (the good lasted maybe 18 months before drifting apart again) i wasnt able to enjoy sex with him.

I do not mean to be mean mommy and I am sorry if it came across that way. There are some very sweet posters on here, I am more cut to the chase factual

You need a plan, that is a fact! And yes many posters can help you create one using the MB principles, that is what we are here for.

Part of creating a plan for yourself, is to make sure you are thinking about things the right way. Sometimes this requires some 'meanness' so to speak.

Think of it more as posters challenging your thought process. For instance, I did not wish to be mean to you. I wished to challenge your thought process that you could move on from/forgive infidelity without REQUIREMENTS of your wayward spouse. You need to require more, or you will get what you ask for.

Please read Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders. This is NOT a good attitude to have in a marriage. I hope you see how destructive having a free for all during separation was. If you wish to date others, get a divorce and then date others. If you are separated to work on a marriage, there is no possible way to work on a marriage with AP's involved, in this case, on both sides.

You cannot and should not TRUST, especially a serial cheater. He should have a lifestyle that is completely transparent to you. You should have access to all forms of communication, his phone, text, email, facebook, etc. A serial cheater should have very LIMITED access to communication, IOW he should not have a smartphone, facebook, etc. You should have spyware on his phone and a keylogger on the computer, and use it to periodically check on him. Trust, but VERIFY. He has lived a long life of cheating and he will not change if he has no accountability.

It does not sound like he agreed to ceasing contact with all others. This is a very strict boundary, NO OPPOSITE SEX FRIENDS. None. This is not good practice in a regular marriage, but in one that has multiple affairs this is absolutely a deal breaker.

Having OS friendships is allowing other people to meet your needs. This is how affairs begin. This is how several of his affairs have begun, it sounds. You need to REQUIRE him to have NO OS FRIENDS in order for you to remain married to him, or he will continue to do so.

Did you say you have Surviving an Affair? If you do, reread it.

Is your WH interested in creating a romantic marriage that is protected from affairs?

Just purchased another copy of Surviving an Affair as I couldn't find my original copy. Talked to him about it and he said he is willing to read the book and follow the MB method.

Before it arrives are there any pages you would suggest he read that are on the website? It is a tad hard for me to navigate from the phone but he said he would look at the site.

Here.
Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marriage?
To the Unfaithful Lurkers- a Gift

Thanks for the links. He read the friends one and we have made some progress. Still waiting on the book to arrive as he is not agreeing on the no contact letter. He said she is already out of his life so why keep pushing it...

On another note, I'm having a hard time with triggers. She is friends with several of my friends on facebook and has almost become fanatical about posting on their pages. Primarily my brother in law. I know she is trying to make it known that she is still there...it is really bothering me. She went to elementary and high school with them so in a way is a long term friend, however, given the circumstances and the intentional problems she caused it bothers me. Am I out of place by feeling bothered? I am mostly upset about the brother in law and her increased contact with him. He isnt necessarily engaging with her but I notice her commenting on almost Every Single Thing, esp the stuff I comment on... I know revenge is never a good idea but since she is playing the FB games I want to get back at her too. Maybe post some happy family pics or even a pic of me and my husband and I hugging/kissing and tagging him so she will get the point...

Again, I know revenge and plotting is not the answer so maybe it is good that I talk it out here instead of doing it? Should I tell him my feelings? I don't want to annoy him but I am struggling emotionally.