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Three weeks ago I went to get my hair cut and with the conversations I had with the hairdresser my wife told me she was uncomfortable about me going there.
I said I would not go back. I did not argue. I did not resent it. It bothers her and I want to move forward. I did have personal conversation and I am trying to work on this. One is if I have it with a female I do not talk to them again. Two is not to do it again.
I met my new boss who is female and also a lady I will be working with maybe 5 times a year. I only talked about the job and that is all. I do not think I will have to interact with them a lot but my goal is to only keep it as business.
I told SM all about my day, who I talked to and what we talked about. I do not have a problem with this. I feel good that this makes SM feel better.
Where this went south is when SM told me I should not have any female service providers. I tried to do POJA with her and ask if she would go with me when I went to the doctor once a year for a checkup and go with me when I get my hair cut by another person. She said no. End of story. Her way or no way.
If I don�t do her way then I am not supporting our marriage and I am not protecting her. I would be happy to shave my head and never go to a doctor if it would help our marriage.
It doesn�t seem to end.
I was happy I have a job and we could carpool together and eat lunch together. I felt this was a better job than what I had. I get to spend more time with my wife and I am working about 3 miles away from her. Then I have a sit down on my personal conversations and I can�t go to my doctor anymore.
I told SM that I agreed with everything that MelodyLane had written. I do not disagree with anything. She told me I makes her angry when I say I don�t disagree.
I can not talk fast when we are talking because makes her feel unsafe. I slow it down and breathe slower.
I can not move my wrist when I talk because makes her feel unsafe. I try to hold my hands by my side when I talk.
Now I can�t say � I don�t disagree with that� It makes her mad.
I told her last night if it makes her feel safe and protect then I will not go to my doctor anymore. I didn�t go to her last time it was a nurse practitioner at a CVS but she is female so I don�t know what I can do now.
I was on a flight from Dallas and a lady had two children. I would say 4 and maybe 9 mths. The 9 mth had a dirty diaper and was crying on the plane. I was in the aisle beside them and I told her I would watch her son while she went to change the diaper. I would hope someone would help my wife if she was in need. I didn�t want to have sex with her. I didn�t want to know anything about her. I just helped a person in need.
I have done this my whole life and have never wanted to have sex with any women if I helped them.
I saw two women that were in need of help last week. I asked SM � Do you want me to stop and help them?� She said no and I kept driving.
I have a problem of being friendly with people but it is my goal to never have personal conversation with a woman again. When I talked to the ladies this week, I only talked about work.
If I do have personal conversation with a female I will tell SM and we can work from there.
I have repeatedly told SM that she may think we have the tools to have a productive conversation; we don�t use them correctly and have bad habits also.
I had an affair 5 years ago. It stopped. I kissed her 2 years ago. It is over and has been over.
I quit my job because it had triggers for SM. Not to end the affair because it was over.
I am 60 miles away from there so there will not be a chance of it ever surfacing again.
I do not drive in that county for anything.
I have not had alcohol since Nov.
Have not taken any job that didn�t support our marriage.
Try to always say �How would you feel about ?�
Spend 15 hrs. of UA with SM every week.
Talk slow and hold my hand down.
Post even though I HATE IT , HATE IT , AND HATE IT.
I have agreed to the EP�s because I have not shown I have good boundaries with women. I want SM to feel safe and secure.
I went to pick up SM yesterday for lunch and drove her to see exactly where I was going to be working. I know she is nervous because I am getting a new job. I also went to go see her because she was in a car wreck yesterday and her neck and back was hurting. I feel we were having a great lunch.
You can read her details because I always get them wrong and she is more correct than me.
In summary, SM locked her heels in on the female doctor and so did I.
I am trying to recover but I am not Dr. Harley or Her Papa Bear. I have a long way to go and I don�t know if I have what it takes to make it.
I have about 8 or 9 bad behaviors I am trying to change at once.
I have been told by wise counsel not to talk because I debate and to keep quiet.
I have been told by the coach do not say these things. Do not talk!! Talk about positive things.
SM tells me �I need you to talk to me.� I try to talk but keep it on positive and then I start debating.
I try to stop the conversation and tell SM we have been talking for 50 minutes and haven�t made any progress. I just makes her mad. We will talk again for 2 hour and not make any progress. I tell her we are not using the tools of MB. It makes her mad.
I took the kids to school today and took their books back to the library. Stopped to get a biscuit. There was a guy I use to work with that really taught me a lot and I haven�t seen him in years. I waved at him and he stopped and we started talking. I didn�t call SM because I was letting her sleep. When I got home I asked her how her back was and she started cursing for about 2 hrs.
That's should have you all up to speed from my end. You do talk a lot, don't you! The resentment in your words is palpable. Imagine that. You had an affair and lied about it for five years, and now your wife has found out about it and YOU"RE resentful! I'm at a loss to know what there is for you to feel resentful about. You've been given a chance to have a life with StrongerMe and your family, instead of living in a bedsit making appointments to see your daughter, the way you deserve. You've been given a chance, but there are conditions attached to that, and so you threaten divorce on a frequent and regular basis. Keep talking, LongHaul. You're talking yourself right out of your marriage and into that bedsit.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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[
Keep talking, LongHaul. You're talking yourself right out of your marriage and into that bedsit. English translation for "bedsit" = room for rent.  And Sugarcane makes an excellent point, LH. You had an affair, lied to her for years, threatened her with divorce for years and *YOU* have the resentment?  Do you see how CRAZY and backwards that is? You are not the victim here, my friend!! You are the PERP. She would not even be here if it weren't for your actions. She doesn't deserve any of this!! All she is asking is that you implement normal precautions that healthy marriages observe. They should have been implemented years ago. If they had been followed all along you wouldn't find your marriage on life support.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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For a betrayed spouse, violating extraordinary precautions is an HUGE setback in recovery. It tells the BS, "I am not safe" and makes huge LB$ withdrawals.
Engaging in personal conversation with your hairdresser and asking a coworker about OW were huge violations, LH. There is no getting around that.
You compounded the big issue of violating EPs by arguing with her and trying to negotiate (POJA) what additional EPs needed to be put into place.
Do you realize that EPs are not negotiable?
Do you realize that EPs are in place to not only prevent another affair but to help a BS feel safe and protected so that she can begin to heal?
I think you do but you don't care because you are too busy feeling sorry for yourself.
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Loan haul,
Reading your responses literally makes my stomach turn, my husband acted the way you are acting for 3 long years after his A ended and the result was that I totally utterly and completely lost any iota of love I had for him. At the lowest point I couldn't care less if he had been hit by a bus on the way home, that s how much his abuse effected the way I cared about him.
You had an A, you showed bad judgment and you made some horrific and abusive decisions in your marriage. Not your BW. So how can you be in any position to debate any boundaries that would make your marriage safe again is beyond me.
Falling out of love with my WH is hard enough but is reversible however the day I lost all respect for him was the day our marriage truly hit rock bottom but he woke up just in time to realise that his behaviour would cost him his family and turned things around.
It's been two years but there are days that I still look at him and feel like running a mile from him and the pain he caused me.
He is trying his hardest but the damage done while he wasted time stropping about boundaries, resenting restrictions and debating non negotiable safety precautions I needed to be in place has made it much harder to recover anything.
Your BW is very close to her tolerance threshold and she will stop loving you and she will walk away if you do not change your attitude and be grateful that she has the grace to give you the chance to redeem yourself after such a vile act of violence against her marriage.
You keep asking when will this end, when will the boundaries and restrictions be lifted, the simple answer is never because the pain and suffering and triggers your wife will endure at your hands will never end for her. They may lessen in intensity and frequency but they will never disappear.
Sounds harsh and impossible? Well it's not and you walking away or threatening divorce will not make matters any easier infact it might look like the easy option but its not, if you walk away you will NEVER get the chance to redeem yourself and you will be condemning your BS to a life of more pain and suffering.
If my extreamly entitled and selfish former WH can turn things around so can you. It's a case of deciding to let go of your independent behaviour and be prepared to be in a great marriage where you won't need to go rescue damsels in distress or get into personal conversations with strangers to feel good about yourself, you will feel good because you are a decent, loving and safe family man.
BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months
Divorced
Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.
If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.
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I had an affair 5 years ago. It stopped. I kissed her 2 years ago. It is over and has been over. In that long, wordy post in which you listed your many admirable qualities and displayed your resentment at StrongerMe for for her unreasonable demands that you stop talking to women, you failed to mention that you asked someone how OW was doing, just a short time ago. I wonder why you were able to list so many fine things you have done for your wife, but did not mention this particular stab in the back. Do you see it as a minor slip that does not take away from the fact that you would do anything to save your marriage? Or is it something you will threaten to divorce her over if she shows upset over it?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I do not have a problem with not having personal conversation with women. I do not have any resentment for any demand of me not having personal conversation.
I do not see how I can not have conversation with women. One greeted me at WalMart and one was at the check out. They both talked to me. I said �Thank You to one� when they said welcome to WalMart. The other asked me how I was doing tonight and I said �fine.�
I didn�t not ask how the OW was doing. She was transferred to another school and I asked if she was still at the school.
I do not think I would threaten divorce by her being upset by this? I do see it as something I should not have even asked.
I will keep my post shorter and less wordy on any qualities.
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I do not have a problem with not having personal conversation with women. I do not have any resentment for any demand of me not having personal conversation.
I do not see how I can not have conversation with women. One greeted me at WalMart and one was at the check out. They both talked to me. I said �Thank You to one� when they said welcome to WalMart. The other asked me how I was doing tonight and I said �fine.� This tells me you are not safe for your wife if you don't understand the difference between saying "thank you" to a Wal-Mart clerk and having personal discussions with a woman. The fact that you admit you don't know the difference tells me there is a much bigger problem here than I realized. I hope StrongerMe is reading this because she needs to know the problem is much bigger than she realized. This is WHY you had the affair. Since you don't understand what a personal conversation is, that means you are likely to do this all over again. I didn�t not ask how the OW was doing. She was transferred to another school and I asked if she was still at the school. You asked about her. I do not think I would threaten divorce by her being upset by this? I do see it as something I should not have even asked. Why did you play the divorce card then? Why all the resentment in your posts today? It comes through loud and clear.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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............but I don't believe you don't know the difference. You are not a d*mbass. You only play one when you aren't getting your way with SM.
I would appreciate it if you would drop the d*mbass ACT. It is insulting to your wife and insulting to those of us who have been here rooting for you for months.
It would be much better for your marriage, though, if you played those games here with US instead of your wife. Your wife is at the end of her rope. We don't care if you say stupid things. It doesn't bother us a bit to your call you on it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Like Doc Holiday said in Tombstone: "I'll be your huckleberry."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I do not see how I can not have conversation with women. One greeted me at WalMart and one was at the check out. They both talked to me. I said �Thank You to one� when they said welcome to WalMart. The other asked me how I was doing tonight and I said �fine.� A WS serious about recovery and serious about the BS's feelings would never play such games. Who the heck said anything about saying hi and thank you to a clerk at the store? My 10 year old would understand the difference. Instead you should OWN UP to the fact that your relationships and conversations are completely inappropriate and you should take whatever steps are necessary to avoid these situations. Discussing working out and recreational activities (motorcycle riding) with a female hairdresser REEKS of flirting and inappropriateness. I NEVER discussed working out with a male during my marriage -- even prior to MB. The female doctor that you so conveniently mentioned you only see once a year for a checkup is actually a friend that you have had over for dinner. Again, completely inappropriate. It is very clear to anyone who is familiar with MB how you ended up having an affair and how if you don't cut it out you will cross the line again. Not to mention...all of my male family members uses a male barber and a male doctor, LH. Why you would make a mountain over a molehill over this issue just screams insensitivity towards your BS. You can say "I would do anything include shave my head but it's never enough" but that won't distract us. Those types of games don't work here. You can write five pages about all the wonderful things you are doing for your BS but if you are being insensitve, abusive, lovebusting her, threatening divorce, and not implementing ironclad EPs, then it doesn't really matter much.
Last edited by SusieQ; 04/20/13 08:14 AM.
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Again, telling your BW after you have violated EPs the solution YOU WANT (for her to attend you to your hair appts and doctor visits) is not MB and arguing with her about it and declaring "I would do xxx but it's never enough!" screams of manipulation and insensitivity. SusieQ:
We recommend general precautions, such as to avoid having a close female friend, avoid discussing personal issues with another woman, avoid business trips and recreational activities with another woman, etc. But we also look at the conditions that made the affair possible. Whatever your husband was doing that increased the chances of an affair should be eliminated, such as flirting.
As to the specifics of what exactly he is to avoid doing, your judgment should be sufficient. Besides, the Policy of Joint Agreement dictates that anything he does around other women that makes you feel uncomfortable should be avoided, even if it seems as if you are being overly sensitive. Quite frankly, you have good reason to be sensitive, and whatever your husband does to relieve your anxiety should be the least he can do.
Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
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I can't help but come to the conclusion that we have been wasting our time with you all along, because you never really wanted to restore this marriage. That is to say - you never wanted it really badly. You wanted it if it was easy enough and if you could get to stay at home on your terms, without sacrifice and without too much work.
You were never desperate to put things right the way HerPapaBear was when he threw his marriage down the toilet. You were never desperate to keep your wife and kids. Your life won't end if you lose them; it will still be worth living.
I think you have acted in a cowardly fashion, getting StrongerMe to become so exasperated that she ends the marriage that you were happy enough to end all along. It goes without saying that someone having an affair is prepared to risk his marriage. You never changed from that stance, and it was cowardly for you to push StrongerMe until she could not take any more.
May God forgive you for what you have done. You certainly don't deserve your wife's forgiveness.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I agree looks like I will give it my half hearted try and when she can't take it and end it its not my fault, I "tried". For shame!
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(I believe I owe this thread an apology, as I intended to have this posted by this morning, and spent most of the day in re-write mode!)
Well, my friend, it appears you have decided that SM is unduly influenced by people who have (separately) come to the conclusion that your behavior, actions, and preferences make it inadvisable for her to remain in the "back and forth" relationship you insist on offering her.
Specifically, you reportedly condemn the advice she has gotten from DD12 and NeverGuessed. That really provides quite the spread of talents and insights, wouldn't you agree? One, after all, is over-excitable, immature, and unsophisticated, driven primarily by the basest impulses of fear and anger. The other is a twelve-year-old girl.
You seem to have posited that YOU get to decide the extent of the EPs that will be required (permitted?) for the return of SM's piece of mind. You do not. SM is the only voice that will speak to that matter.
In reality, the question is which adjective is ultimately going to be applied in describing your actions over the last few weeks. There is only a choice between two.
It would be seriously easier on us, SM, and finally yourself, if the descriptor could be IGNORANT. Ignorance in and of itself is not at all a pejorative term. We ALL have degrees of ignorance of varying topics, and frankly, start out as totally ignorant of every new discipline and field of knowledge. An ignoramus, willing to learn (in effect, shedding that ignorance) is a delight to witness. What foils the innocence of pure ignorance is usually arrogance, in effect yielding the position of, "I'm told I do not know something, but I choose not to believe that statement. I know better than my advisers in this matter." Therefore, foregoing the proffered opportunity of learning, the subject remains in the state of ignorance.
The alternative explanation of your behavior would be MALEVOLENT. This supposes that the knowledge of the subject has been gained beyond the characterization of ignorance, leaving only intentionally negative actions directed at the other party. This is a tough proof. How does an outside observer determine that knowledge is not lacking, but good-will is seriously absent, leaving the subject equipped with the necessary knowledge, but unwilling to use it for the common weal.
So, LH, let's not force old NG to choose, with the risk of being wrong, and accruing additional (and ill-affordable) delay in your program. Just tell us friend: Are you still ignorant of the damages your ongoing hissy-fits are causing, or malevolent in their commission?
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As I mentioned to you there are some threads I recommend you read. Here's one I think could shed some insight; LINK to longwayfromhome's thread I'll be back with more... How are you doing?? Did you read the two thread links yet?
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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