A person with anger problems may take it out on the children because she is temporarily insane. An insane person cannot guarantee she will not harm her children, especially when there is no spouse around to take the brunt of her abuse.

He needs to follow Dr Harley's advice. And no, she should not come here until he gets this situation under control.

I wanted to also point out that the goal here is not to swap personal opinions, but to help posters with Dr Harley's concepts. Abuse is a very serious thing so we need to stick to his professional opinion.

OH heavens yes Happyheart. All right on.

I'm specifically avoiding "blaming myself for the abuse" mentality I have strayed into in the past.

the years of therapy was just hyperbole. I'm actually much more concerned that they're going to marry women like I did...

I'm not sure exactly what anger stuff we're going to follow. I'm not rich but I'm not poor either and I'm willing to spend some money.

The reasons why I want her out of the house: 1. the children get to stay. House=autism-proofed. 2. I am no longer running away like I did in 2010. 3. It has a strong symbolism that she is departing from the family to start repairing and healing herself before returning. I don't want her to be comfortable there. 4. Should she fail in this endeavor, well... I'd rather be in the house than demanding she leave, right? it is a positional advantage I've given up far too easily as the "battered wife."

It was not one outburst in 2 years: it was 2 years without outbursts. Since December I've endured perhaps 4 serious ones and one blockbuster yesterday. I should have responded to the warning tremors rather than the big quake.

Yes, it will surely be traumatizing. I want it to be very uncomfortable for her. For 11 years she's lived almost entirely insulated from the consequences of her abuse as I "sheltered" and "protected" her. No longer. She has a lot of catchup to do.

It's not vindictiveness. If I were vindictive I'd simply chase the very person she'd accused me of having an affair with. Yes, it's supposed to be misery for her to an extent that it'll echo decades into the hopefully long and likely bumpy marriage we have ahead of us.

Believe it or not her story would probably be identical to mine. As I said, she's very contrite. I'll suggest it but I don't know if she will post. We're on very limited speaking terms right now.

One thing I did do though is make a list of the emotional needs she's been meeting well, needs she hasn't been, love-busters that absolutely break the feeling of love regardless of other needs being met, needs I want her to meet right now, needs I'm unwilling to have her meet right now, needs of hers I will meet and needs of hers I will not (until and unless reconciliation.) I've asked her to do the same and we'll go over it with a therapist in the future so we can get some sort of action plan together. Harley's methods are very useful.

This is a big part of Dr Harley's reasoning. It sends a very serious message to the abuser that something has to change or she will lose it all.

Additionally, Dr Harley recommends that all contact between you two be via email or text until she gets herself under control.

And I would not suggest bringing her here until she is fully on board with this program and on the right path.

By the way, Dr Harley has said numerous times that domestic violence committed by females is higher than DV committed by MEN. It just tends to go unreported because most men are reluctant to report it.

Okay, I linked it to her. We'll see if she shows.

------

A few things in her own words:
I slipped up and you have too, please do not divorce me, our kids need us to be a happy family, Yes I would tell them to not give up and go to couseling [this is the echoing i was talking about]

You are angry and you have every right to be, please don't give up on [mikey], give this some time, don't make a rash decsion based on your anger, Yes I have abused you but I made progress with Megan (AM therapist) before I want to still try I hope you give me another chance

[regarding our separation and her future plans, showing contrition]- I would be the one ruining it not you but I'll do whatever you want me to do

I think I need help, I know I love you and I don't want a divorce. I just want to give you your space and do what I need to do to fix myself so we can fix us

I want to be careful right now for both our sakes and not really talk unless it with a third party, Pastor or a counselor, I don't have anything to hide I'm not thinking of cheating on you, I want you and I want us to be happy and in love but the last thing I want to do right now is say anything else that I will regret. So other then communicating about who has the kids and when ect.. I don't feel we should talk

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That means we will have a much harder time helping you and you will probably lose this place as a resource. sigh... The last thing your marriage needs right now is both of you posting and reading here because it will lead to INCREASED lovebusting at a time when your marriage is on life support.

Yeah... I don't think she will show. But frankly I find the principals of exposure to infidelity to have some similarities with abuse, especially husband abuse which is often much more shameful and hidden. I haven't blown it open across facebook or anything, and frankly she is in no position to remove any resources from me including this one. If it bothers her at all, she can simply accept it as a consequence of her behavior, or not.

With regard to "love busters" I just sent her a list of several dozen love-busters by doing a reassessment of my emotional needs. She's got plenty to choose from. Am I misunderstanding?

The problem lies in her reading your posts. It is the same dynamic behind Dr Harley's practice of NEVER counseling couples in conflict together. Counseling couples together starts fights and such couples typically leave counseling more angry than when they went in. Reading each others posts while your marriage is on life support is a fast way to fuel the fire, the very thing we are trying to quell.

This is a good way to fuel fights and make the situation worse.

I am sorry the suggestion was made and am not happy that I have to even post about it to you. It should have never been suggested.

Ah. I see. No that's clear and a principle I agree with.

Do you have the book, Lovebusters? That is where you should both begin. Get 2 copies along with the workbook. You should each read a chapter, and then do the lessons in the back of each chapter. Discuss the lessons via email. You should use a yellow highlighter and she should use a pink highlighter and highlight sections that have meaning to you.

Start with the first 5 chapters but wait a while before you take the LB questionnaires.

Both of you should read it and identify your own problem areas first. You are not to identify the other person's problems YET.

At the moment we are having no more contact until we've spoken to a therapist. Love busters is on the menu for later, but with all due respect, where we should begin is stopping the bleeding with some serious counseling with trusted advisers, limited contact to stop the bleeding, and getting her away from my kids and restraining myself from tearing into her for what an awful person she's convinced me she is.

After some time we will begin Love Busters discussion with a 3rd party present.

This was serious abuse. I will not take any chances.

Didn't you just post that you sent her a "list of lovebusters?" Did you not just post that you sent her a link to this forum? I just answered your question and now you say you are saving it for a "therapist?" I am confused.

Yes, right afterword she/we cut off contact. And I didn't send her really a list of lovebusters but a list of needs being met and not being met, also INCLUDING some LB's.

We are no longer in contact right now. I posted her most recent quote above.

69,000 posts! You're a busy girl, Melody. Thank you for your help.

I am leaning toward agreeing with HappyHeart; that you shouldn't separate from your wife.

In this radio clip, Dr. Harley does not recommend that spouses separate when the wife is abusive. He says it's a question of safety and fear: women are afraid, men generally are not. Dr. Harley recommends they get help for the abusive wife, not that the couple separate.

Abuse in Marriage Radio Clip

See what you think. Sometimes Dr. Harley recommends different approaches for husbands and wives. I think his answer to your email will be very helpful. I'll be listening for it!

@Zhamila, another practical difference here is that I also want to separate my wife from my kids, an impossible feat without separation.

By the by, the angry outburst example given in the audio is remarkably tame! I guess it brushes up against abuse but it was not what I and my family were facing at home with increasing frequency.

Also, why not send your wife here to tell her side of the story?

Okay, I linked it to her.

Mel, for once I have to say you remained remarkably restrained in this matter.

For my part, at the current stage of this poster's projected process, I would have to opine that this is the single stupidest piece of advice offered and accepted since I've been on MB.

I, too, can remain in control.

Mikey, you are doing fine. He recently told another husband that he should call the police and have his abusive wife arrested. It depends on the case. I agree with you that it is time to send a strong message to your wife so she takes you seriously this time.

The issue I had with Happyheart's advice is she is sharing her personal philosophies and that is not what we are here for. Telling him to send his wife here was terrible advice. We might differ on what Dr Harley would advise, but these situations are too precarious to substitute personal opinions for Dr Harleys.

So pianoman, a couple of things you've said puzzle me, and I'm unsure whether I understand the whole picture yet:

You don't restrain someone having an AO. You leave the situation. Physical restraint is abusive, and I'm concerned that you've been physically abusive to her as well (perhaps without realizing it? I don't know). This might explain the police threatening to arrest you.

When I pointed out that Dr. Harley does not recommend husbands separate from abusive wives, you said that you want to separate to get her away from the kids. But here you said, If you separate from her, she'll still have visitation with your children (unsupervised by you). Will you please explain this? Unless you'll attempt to prevent her from seeing her children at all?

I guess the last thing is, what was the disagreement about, which led to her last AO?