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Glove oil,
You are right, I need to get a spine. There will have to be more exposure. He ran off again tonight. I Hate this! He has lost his brain! Megz, did you not see my post about separation? Dr Harley recommends tolerating this type of abuse for about 3 to 4 weeks and then getting separated. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from living like this. I would also add that it is very counterproductive and very unattractive for you to compete with the OW. That makes it less likely that you will recover your marriage when you make yourself the less attractive alternative.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly.
That leaves two other choices which are both bad. The first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS. The problem with a continuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns.
Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.
So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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haha, my snooping tools are that I drive around in the middle of the night to her house and a rental house that he supposedly stays at sometimes. That's not any sort of snooping tool.  Where are your small children while you do this middle of the night driving?Put a GPS on his car and KNOW where he is driving.
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Thank you MelodyLane. I should have known about that earlier.
Pepperband, I have someone come over when I drive so they are not alone. really its only been twice. Right, its not really a tool, just something to satisfy my paranoia, I guess. i put a gps app on his phone but he found it and took it off. He keeps his pickup locked so I can't put stuff in it or take stuff out.
I should just kick him out. He doesn't stay here anyway.
Me: BW 33
Kids 11, 8, 6, 18 months
DDay 1/22/13
Plan B 6/21/13 long overdue
broke Plan B august 2013, my mistake
Divorce 6/30/14
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Thank you MelodyLane. I should have known about that earlier.
Pepperband, I have someone come over when I drive so they are not alone. really its only been twice. Right, its not really a tool, just something to satisfy my paranoia, I guess. i put a gps app on his phone but he found it and took it off. He keeps his pickup locked so I can't put stuff in it or take stuff out.
I should just kick him out. He doesn't stay here anyway. Please just ask him to leave. And then we can help you prepare for Plan B. Pack his bags and ask him to move.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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He keeps his pickup locked so I can't put stuff in it or take stuff out. If you decide you want to know where he goes, buy a magnetic mount GPS. You do not need to get inside the car/ You stick it to something metallic under the car.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Ok. Getting ready for Plan B. Will implement in a couple of days.
Does anyone have a link to a final goodbye letter to an OW from WH?
Thanks for the help from everyone on here!
Me: BW 33
Kids 11, 8, 6, 18 months
DDay 1/22/13
Plan B 6/21/13 long overdue
broke Plan B august 2013, my mistake
Divorce 6/30/14
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Ok. Getting ready for Plan B. Will implement in a couple of days.
Does anyone have a link to a final goodbye letter to an OW from WH?
Thanks for the help from everyone on here! I would first focus on going into Plan B. Have you read the articles about Plan B so you know how to do it correctly? You have to prepare to be in Plan B for up to 2 years. Do you have an intermediary yet? A plan to change your locks? What about your finances? Do you have all of your finances separated? What is your plan to get him to move out?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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He is already basically moved out. He doesn't stay here except every once in a while. But he still has a lot of clothes here I will have to get out.
Not sure what to do about an intermediary. I don't want to put our friends in that position. Or family members. What to do?
Do I have to let him see the kids during this time? Unfortunately we have our baby's blessing in 4 weeks. I don't know what to do about that.
What if he comes to the house? I can lock the doors, but the kids would want to let him in. Should I just leave the house every day after school?
He is very ambivalent about us staying together so far. AFter I friend requested one of OW's friends on facebook the other day, he called his lawyer. But then the next day we had a great talk. But this weekend he disappeared again. Is that normal, to threaten divorce a lot?
I appreciate all the help and advice from everyone here. It helps me be strong.
Me: BW 33
Kids 11, 8, 6, 18 months
DDay 1/22/13
Plan B 6/21/13 long overdue
broke Plan B august 2013, my mistake
Divorce 6/30/14
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He is already basically moved out. He doesn't stay here except every once in a while. But he still has a lot of clothes here I will have to get out.
Not sure what to do about an intermediary. I don't want to put our friends in that position. Or family members. What to do? Ask one of them to be your intermediary. Do I have to let him see the kids during this time? Unfortunately we have our baby's blessing in 4 weeks. I don't know what to do about that. Yes, send him a visitation schedule and arrange visitation at someone else's home so you don't have to see him. Have your IM work out schedules, etc. What if he comes to the house? I can lock the doors, but the kids would want to let him in. Should I just leave the house every day after school? Don't leave your house. Tell the kids about your plan and why you are doing it. Tell them they are to never let him in. He is very ambivalent about us staying together so far. AFter I friend requested one of OW's friends on facebook the other day, he called his lawyer. But then the next day we had a great talk. But this weekend he disappeared again. Is that normal, to threaten divorce a lot? He is not ambivalent at all. He wants you BOTH. Do you plan on taking our advice to go into Plan B? I dont' see that you are very serious about this.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Plan B will have to go into place this week.
A couple more questions.
Should I do more exposure in Plan B? Should I call OW mother again or even have his dad call OW mother?
Say he cuts off contact with her as I will require to end plan B. I also have other requirements, but he will be going through withdrawal in the meantime, and will be very tempted to contact her again. Will that work for him to go through withdrawal while living on his own?
Me: BW 33
Kids 11, 8, 6, 18 months
DDay 1/22/13
Plan B 6/21/13 long overdue
broke Plan B august 2013, my mistake
Divorce 6/30/14
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Plan B will have to go into place this week.
A couple more questions.
Should I do more exposure in Plan B? Should I call OW mother again or even have his dad call OW mother?
Say he cuts off contact with her as I will require to end plan B. I also have other requirements, but he will be going through withdrawal in the meantime, and will be very tempted to contact her again. Will that work for him to go through withdrawal while living on his own? Does OW's mother know? What are your conditions to end Plan B and work on recovery?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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You don't really get Plan B it seems.
Once it starts, you concentrate on you, on healing, and he is on his own. He will decide what he does or doesn't do, you won't know.
You have to understand Plan B. Make sure you really do.
Once you set up the intermediary and give him the letter, then you are dark. Make sure the IM knows the conditions and duties. It is not to keep you apprised of what he is doing. You shouldn't know if WH contacts the IM or doesn't unless there is some basic information that must be passed, like legal matters, money matters, etc. Making sure you understand what is to happen and that the IM really does too is vital.
You have to understand this part if Plan B is going to really be effective. Once it is in place, you won't know anything he is doing until he comes to the IM and agrees to the conditions without reservations.
You won't know if he has cut off contact.
you won't know if he is in withdrawal.
You won't know if he is living the single life.
You won't know if he is in church 7 days a week.
You need to understand it. It is not a ploy or tactic to cause any result in him. It is for you and you alone.
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My conditions for him BEFORE coming home would be:
1. Delete his extra cell phone account (he said he burned the phone, not sure if that�s true but the account needs to be gone) Proof: letter from cell company that it is gone or having a witness with him as he cancels it. I also need the phone number so I can call it to confirm its gone.
2. Goodbye letter (approved by me) or phone call to her to break it off with myself or (friend) listening
3. Panels picked up from her barn by friend
4. Read the books I will give him and fill out the papers.
5. He needs to talk to the bishop or stake president again and come to church twice.
6. He has to call his dad and mom (he hasn't spoken to them in months).
7. He apologizes to kids for his time away from them
8. He is willing to be at home EVERY night, no matter how uncomfortable.
9. Move all his stuff home from his bachelor pad and give the keys back.
10. Start MB counseling or go to at least 1 counseling session.
11. Be willing to take someone with him EVERYWHERE for 2 months. (so he is not tempted to see her and because he shouldn�t be alone with his depression)
12. Be willing to turn on phone GPS tracker.
I'm not done with this list. did I miss anything?
Yes, I had called OW's mother. Unfortunately I was trickle exposing, didn't know it at the time. Here's the timeline:
Jan 22, 2013 - I find out.
Feb 2 - had baby - 4th child
Feb 5 - first counseling session he attended
Feb 15 - 2nd counseling, he missed, I exposed to counselor which doesn't really matter, WH wouldn't care about him. But it was good practice for me.
Feb 22 - expose to bishop
March 10 - expose to WH's parents, they are fully supportive of me.
March 11 - expose to OW's mother.
March 23 - exposed to WH's business partner/best friend and wife.
April 3 - expose to OW's friend on FB. I didn't send a message, I just friend requested her, but if she looked at my page, my cover picture is of our little family at the hospital when the baby was born. She called WH wondering why I was friend requesting her. WH was of course mad.
Last edited by Megz; 04/06/13 10:38 PM.
Me: BW 33
Kids 11, 8, 6, 18 months
DDay 1/22/13
Plan B 6/21/13 long overdue
broke Plan B august 2013, my mistake
Divorce 6/30/14
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Here's another question: Do I text OW and let her know that WH has told me he doesn't want a divorce? Will that create some turmoil in the affair? Before I plan B?
Me: BW 33
Kids 11, 8, 6, 18 months
DDay 1/22/13
Plan B 6/21/13 long overdue
broke Plan B august 2013, my mistake
Divorce 6/30/14
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1. Looks good, but I would add a piece about full transparency (facebook/emails ect...)
2. NO! This is not a goodbye letter, this is a no-contact letter. Do NOT allow him to call her.
3. Sounds good...remove the trigger for you, and a reminder of her from him.
4. Yup
5. I see no problem here
6. Yup
7. Absolutely...might want him to explain why he's been gone, and how selfish he's been
8. No brainer
9. See #8
10. Remove the "starts" and "or". He commits, fully or you stay dark.
11. Smart
12. See #8
As for the text to OW, absolutely. If you have proof, provide that as well. Do this before plan B. Once you go dark, you STAY DARK until your IM feels that he has agreed to all of your conditions. Also make sure your IM knows that these conditions are non-negotiable. He agrees to them all, completely, or you stay dark.
Make sure you heed Mherb's advice. You need to absolutely understand what you're getting in to with plan B. Your WH will try to get through to you in order to feel like he is still in control. Do not allow this.
Me: BH
XW: Promises83
DS5
Married 10 years, first for both of us
D-Day: 27 Oct 11 trickle truth-ed until all 8 OMs were discovered
D Final: 16 Aug 2013
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My conditions for him BEFORE coming home would be:
1. Delete his extra cell phone account (he said he burned the phone, not sure if that�s true but the account needs to be gone) Proof: letter from cell company that it is gone or having a witness with him as he cancels it. I also need the phone number so I can call it to confirm its gone.
2. Goodbye letter (approved by me) or phone call to her to break it off with myself or (friend) listening
3. Panels picked up from her barn by friend
4. Read the books I will give him and fill out the papers.
5. He needs to talk to the bishop or stake president again and come to church twice.
6. He has to call his dad and mom (he hasn't spoken to them in months).
7. He apologizes to kids for his time away from them
8. He is willing to be at home EVERY night, no matter how uncomfortable.
9. Move all his stuff home from his bachelor pad and give the keys back.
10. Start MB counseling or go to at least 1 counseling session.
11. Be willing to take someone with him EVERYWHERE for 2 months. (so he is not tempted to see her and because he shouldn�t be alone with his depression)
12. Be willing to turn on phone GPS tracker.
I'm not done with this list. did I miss anything?
Yes, I had called OW's mother. Unfortunately I was trickle exposing, didn't know it at the time. Here's the timeline:
Jan 22, 2013 - I find out.
Feb 2 - had baby - 4th child
Feb 5 - first counseling session he attended
Feb 15 - 2nd counseling, he missed, I exposed to counselor which doesn't really matter, WH wouldn't care about him. But it was good practice for me.
Feb 22 - expose to bishop
March 10 - expose to WH's parents, they are fully supportive of me.
March 11 - expose to OW's mother.
March 23 - exposed to WH's business partner/best friend and wife.
April 3 - expose to OW's friend on FB. I didn't send a message, I just friend requested her, but if she looked at my page, my cover picture is of our little family at the hospital when the baby was born. She called WH wondering why I was friend requesting her. WH was of course mad. The purpose of listing Extrordinary Precautions (EPs) is to identify and eliminate the conditions that made your husband's affair possible. You did not create a list of EPs; you created a list of self-improvement tasks for your husband to accomplish. You even built in loopholes, such as " be willing to do such and such" rather than " do such and such."
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The purpose of listing Extrordinary Precautions (EPs) is to identify and eliminate the conditions that made your husband's affair possible. You did not create a list of EPs; you created a list of self-improvement tasks for your husband to accomplish. You even built in loopholes, such as "be willing to do such and such" rather than "do such and such." Agree with Jessica. however, I would not bother with this list right now. In the Plan B letter all you say is "end your affair and enter a program of recovery." THEN, when he agrees to end his affair and meet your conditions, you have your intermediary give your conditions. But your conditions need to be focused on extraordinary precautions to avoid another affair. Something along these lines but specific to your situation: Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA]
Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:
1. end all contact with the OM for life
2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle
3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc
4. no more opposite sex friendships
5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph
6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.
Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.
Unless you use this program to create a much better marriage than the one you had before the affair, you are likely looking at repeat affairs. So don't even think you can get away with sweeping the affair under the rug and going back to what you had before. What you had before led to the affair!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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