I can�t say about your husband but I�d love to have a personal connection to my wife on that kind of level�where she could be emotionally honest and let me share something so personal.

TW,

I think you are confusing your own thoughts. I highly doubt you would say to your H �I wish we didn�t have child #?�. That isn�t what you are thinking. What you are thinking about are the little things that make life frustrating or get in the way of what you�d really like to do.

For instance, you�d love to be able to spend a lot of quality time with your H and the kids just make that difficult, frustrating. Also, kids can test your wits. With them comes lots of responsibilities and headaches and, at times, heartaches.

No. I rather see you approaching him and telling him what you�d like � not what you don�t like.

�I really look forward to a time when it is just you and I. Where we can totally focus on ourselves and have the times of our lives. I�m enjoying our time now being parents and partners but I really am excited to get started on the next chapter of our lives!�.

Whaddya think?

Again, we all have these thoughts of What If � doesn�t make us horrible people. You can be honest with your H. Just be sure you put it in the proper context of what you are feeling.

Also, you said it yourself. You�re dealing with some hormonal life changes that impact you. Things will be all over the map. I see it in my W almost daily. Be kind to yourself, see your Doc to discuss options and ride it out. You�ll come out the other side someday.

Well, I'm already doing that!! But that is when he tells me that I am going to be a basket case and talking about how I'll be complaining that the house is so quiet. I tell him no, I'll just look forward to having "fun" in any part of the house without worrying about kids... He tells me to just wait and see. I like your version of radical honesty because that is what I already do. I already say, "I had a bad day with....today. I really need a break." (Which btw is a BIG improvement for me.) But yes, part of that bad day has been fantasizing what it would be like if she wasn't here and it seems like the vets here were saying I should tell him that dark thought.

If you do not like how he tries to predict how you�ll feel when you�re empty nesters � that�s a great time to be radically honest about how you feel he�s DJ�ing you.

Pepperband, I'm curious as to what you think... Is saying I've had a bad day with..... enough?

Yes.
Do you think I share every dark thought I have with Mr Pep?
I do tell him about worries, but I attempt to disclose these things in a way that does not make Mr Pep feel helpless about helping me.

This AM I found out a high school friend just died. He & his wife married right out of HS. I had a great time with them last August at our reunion. I went to Mr Pep who was writing/working on his computer and I said "Please stand up." He stood. I said "Hold me." He did. Then, I told him about my friend. I did not tell my husband that I sometimes wonder what life as a widow might be. Good & bad. Those sort of "what if" thought fall into the category of "What would life be like if I won the lottery?" .... Then it's off to fantasy-land and huge castles in the South of France, etc. Such thoughts are like farts in the wind, they are not important. Farts happen. Yes they do. But they are NOT ME. I am more than my brain farts. So are you.

Maybe I'm off base and am not necessarily applying the principles correctly but ...

I find it damaging to your M that you feel you have to filter what you say to your H. Your R needs to grow to the point that you can communicate in detail all of your activities and all of your most intimate thoughts to your H without repercussions.

You are being dishonest with him to some extent. If he were to have this information together you might be able to do something about your anxieties/stress.

I just read Pep's response and I do agree with what she's saying but to put it (my reply) into the right context my reply was along the lines of what to do to help TW with any stress or discomfort she may be feeling due to her current sich with the kids/life/etc.

"I feel overwhelmed sometimes."
"At times I feel I can't be the kind of Mom I want to be."
"There are times I wish my life was simpler."
"Raising kids is so hard. I need support."
"I have doubt about my abilities when I am feeling menopausal symptoms."
"Do my mood swings effect you? How?"
"Being in my body with this instability of hormones makes me feel out of control. I don't like myself out of control."
"Can I ask you to hold me until I relaz?"

Tired .... It gets better. Trust me.
You may ask for a "bridge therapy" to help you cross the river.
That's what I used to describe to peri-menopausal women I treated in primary care.


Life as a woman is divided into two sides by a swift river.
On one side are the reproductive years.
On the other side are the post-menopause years.
The difficult part is crossing the river. The currents can be swift and terrible.
It can seem like you are making no progress to reach the other (peaceful) side of the river.
For a minority of women, it is an easy direct swim.
For the majority of women it is a difficult and tiring swim and can be very confusing and frightening.
And, for another very small minority of women, it can be a life-threatening swim. The waters can suck them down like quicksand. They can become depressed to the point of suicide. Have you had any thoughts of ending your life because this swim is too hard?

Pre-menopause life is good.
Post-menopause life is also good.
Peri-menopause life sucks.

There is no shame in this. It is a medical fact.

Thanks Pepperband. Everything that you said makes sense and I can definitely say those kind of things. Mr. Alias does make a good point. Part of it is that he is getting more and more depressed and burned out. I still feel weird saying those things when he is so down himself. To his credit, he is doing absolutely everything I ask of him to do for me. I just feel so completely helpless and part of what is making me feel worse is how unhappy he is.

You must not increase his helplessness. Our men, our husbands, are wired to be our protectors. Tell him what you need. Even if what you need is very simple.
"Listen"
"Hold"
"Sit"
"Kiss"
"Stroke"
"Brush my hair"
"Sing to me"
"Take me on a quiet walk"
"Tell me something funny"
"Tickle the backs of my knees"

You get the idea.

Say to him "Thank you for enduring this hardship by my side. I appreciate you so much and I know I need to show you more appreciation."

You will both feel better.

Ok, I think maybe you got confused. It is not his helplessness. It is mine as in let us take yesterday. He left for work so incredibly down. He just doesn't care about certain stuff anymore and feels incredibly guilty. I sat there crying after he left because I feel so helpless that I cannot do anything to help. So, am I radically honest that it upsets me so much to see him this way... Won't that make him feel worse? I've suggested he see someone, but all I get is a giant NO. That is how I feel helpless. He seemed much better last night and this morning. We're meeting at 10 or so to start our date..

Have fun.

I respect the analogy, but a teeny, weenie objection!


I would say that the fantasy-land of "What would it be like if we won the lottery?" Would be a fantastic trip! In fact, I would think it would be a fantastic IC that would be in line with the friends of good conversation, whereas "What would happen if I was dying of cancer?" would be IC, it would likely be unpleasant... unless of course, a wonderful husband would give Dan Akroyd's Coneheads speech;

I know that most of the advice here is against counseling unless it is with the Harleys but do you ever think it is necessary when it is a personal not a marriage issue. For example, not just in my marriage but I feel like a failure in so many areas in my life if I cannot perform perfectly. Poor hubby is trying SO incredibly hard. But here is a situation lately:

I realized it a couple of weekends ago. I was making biscuits. Hubby came in and visited with me. I can't remember what was going on the night before but for whatever reason the kitchen was a MESS. I had been doing so well to try and keep it clean. Hubby just started cleaning it up and chatting with me. I almost started crying because I felt like a failure. He shouldn't have to do that. He works so hard He should just sit. But then I thought. Wait a minute he isn't mad at you. He helped make the mess, why am I feeling like a failure when he is just helping out. I saw that it was my problem that I needed to deal with. He wasn't doing ANYTHING wrong and yet I was crying because he was cleaning the kitchen!!!

That is just one example. But if I make a wrong turn I will tell myself how stupid I am over and over. Anyway, I went ahead and called a counselor and had one session. But did I make a mistake? I don't want to screw anything up when hubby and i are doing so well. But I also don't know how to deal with how burned out he is. We had a date scheduled and he was SO exhausted from his day and so discouraged that I almost told him nevermind. But I thought, no I need this and our marriage needs it so we went. It was fine. We had a good time and although he wasn't "happy" he was pleasant and i was pleasant and we talked some.

But I just don't know how to deal with my own insecurities much less trying to be his cheerleader.

Honestly, personal counseling is a distraction. Make your marriage a romantic one, and most of these depressed feelings will go away for you.

How is your UA? How many hours? Is it enjoyable for both of you?

Are you and your husband in the online program? Or phone counseling? I am having trouble finding that info. If you aren't, that would be a better way to spend your money.

Be honest with him that it bothers you for him to clean the kitchen. You do not need personal counseling just because something like that bothers you.

IMHO, for Tired, I disagree.

MB is great for creating the perfect marriage. There is no doubt in my mind and I�m quite certain Tired sees it that way too. And while Tired may be happy in her M and continue to improve it using MB it sounds like there is more to her list of issues than just her R with her H. Take care of the M and you will no doubt be happier. But for some of us the troubles go deeper than our R with our spouses.

Personal growth is a positive so long as it doesn�t conflict with the principles of MB. In regards to the M I equate it to a spouse working out to get in better physical shape so they are more attractive to their partner. Having a healthy mental state with healthy behaviors and habits will create all kinds of positives for the marriage. Not to mention what it can do for the person in other aspects of their life.

Tired,
So long as any personal counseling doesn�t conflict with your path in MB I see some benefit in trying to find ways to make yourself a more confident, happy person.

However � (you knew it was coming right?) �.
How will you find a good personal counselor? One who actually helps you make a change in your life? If you get stuck with a counselor that doesn�t give you action items as part of your sessions then I�d say move on to another counselor. You don�t want to get stuck muddling along simply dwelling on the past. That will only make matters worse for you.

For me I�ve been to a couple of different types of counseling (per se) that have helped me with my personal growth. One program in particular was life changing. It was extremely beneficial in helping me change my thought processes and that has been very instrumental in helping all aspects of my life.

One will want to be well-armed when visiting a counselor for anything, though.


There are a lot of sham counselors out there!


Acute mental health centers usually have good counselors, because the idea in acute mental health care is to create a plan of management and to develop coping skills.


Other counselors will talk about things like co-dependency, or possibly encourage IB.


THAT would be destructive both to mental health and the marriage.

Our UA is fine. It is like today... I woke up with my heart pounding. Why I'm not sure..then I think about the graduation programs I printed yesterday. I need to go look at them again. I'm sure I made some kind of typo even though I proofread them, the other girls proofread them, my sons proofread them... But I'm sure I did something.. Everyone is oging to think we are a bunch of morons..... All of these nonhomeschooling people are coming to the graduation.... What will they think??

I took my middle one to the college to take his exam and had a moment of panic...I know I need to take his friend home but was I supposed to pick him up. I freak out and start trying to find my phone as we pull up to the college. Son says, "NO, mom he's here early to buy a scantron. You were not supposed to take him. Good grief. calm down." Look of scorn....

I make a wrong turn and I yell at myself at how stupid I am. ( daughter hates that..

UGGGGGG I don't always feel like this and it should be my "Happy" time of the month..... But I get this incredibly anxious, incredibly horrible, feeling....

On many days he might be able to help with the dishes and I would feel fine. That day it made me cry?? Why? I DONT KNOW...


UGGG.. All I want to do is crawl in bed, but I cannot. I'll post this afternoon if I get a chance. Have to go drive to violin...don't want to..