One last thing. My counselor said the point of counseling is not to be in counseling forever. We can work on goals that I want to. My first one was to be able to sleep at night... UGGH... The first visit was all background. I've made one more appointment and will see if she gives me action points. Her action point this time was to own up to mistakes with my husband. To just let chips fall where they may and just realize I'm not perfect and it is ok to make mistakes.

It doesn't sound "fine."

Well, it was fine. We went out to eat ( split a 5 guys hamburger and fries.) It was a place I've heard a lot about. He talked about the discouraging things at work.. I talked about homeschooling challenges. We then went to a store and looked at IPADS. He's getting one and thinks I would enjoy an ipad mini and we did have fun looking and trying them out. Then we went to LOwes and to some other nurseries and found some pretty flowers for the gardens. Then we found some COOL stuff with the Texas star on it, including a glider for the front porch that I've always wanted, so we bought it and a few other things and brought them home. We spent 5 hours together so I'm not sure what else should have been included.. ( Well some stuff happened after the kids went to bed!)

We've been doing well on our UA time until this week.. We have 75 relatives descending on our house for a party after son's graduation on Saturday and some of them are spending the weekend at our house, so we are frantically getting this place in shape. But next week we have a lot of free time and have already scheduled it.

He asks me regularly how I am doing. ( And yesterday I told him I was in a bad mood for absolutely no reason) He tells me thank you all the time and I love you all the time. Is cuddling with me all the time.. Honestly, he is fufilling all my EN needs... I just feel like bursting out crying sometimes.... And sometimes I feel so angry for no reason either.

You say he wasn't happy, but you both were pleasant. UA is supposed to be the highlight of your week. If he wasn't happy, and you were only pleasant, then it wasn't "fine."

Then how do I fix it? What would make it awesome would be for him to be joking and smiling and teasing me and just happy like he was for the first 15 years of our marriage. Right now that isn't possible because of his depression with his job. Yes, I've suggested talking to Steve or SOMEONE about his job and he says absolutely NO. I can't fix his depression. I don't know what else to do but to insist we keep spending UA time. I can't force him to be happy!

Also, my counselor's boss is a man and a counselor and he has worked with many physicians . She told me to pitch it as more like job counseling/career talk rather than personal counseling but that he would just talk him through his job options and issues and such. Once again, he could just talk once and that might be enough to give him direction or he could talk more. I gave him that option and he said he would think about it but didn't feel comfortable with it at all.. He doesn't want anyone to know. we are both so happy on the outside with other people.

I would really keep that problem on the front burner. The job is making him depressed, and it's having an impact on you. You need to be bringing it up and talking about the impact it is having on you on a regular basis -- I've heard Dr. Harley say to discuss things like this once a week.

Maybe suggest a life coach.

Ok, I'm doing that. In fact that was one thing I told him why I wanted to go to a counselor. I do not know how to handle the fact that he is depressed. Do I cheer him up? do I just sympathize? do I try tough love? It really upsets me to see him so upset and makes me feel helpless and I don't know what to do. ( yes I've told him this several times). I worry that he is just hiding it now and that is what I mean by pleasant but not happy... He tries to fake it so as not to upset me...
But I'll keep bringing it up..

And that is what I meant by above. This guy has life coached several physicians..

tiredwife,

Does your H have any idea what he would like to do/change about his career? Have you guys tried brainstorming possible ideas and solutions? Do you think he also has problems with RH?

Are you doing CBT based therapy? I believe Dr. Harley's against deep examination of childhood history and ongoing "talk" therapy.
His plan for marriage recovery is action based, and a step by step plan. I believe I have heard him mention CBT for addiction issues on the radio.

Maybe you could send him an email and get his advice for both issues!

Just to clear above, I was NOT suggesting that you or your H have any addiction issues......I just meant that I believe he has talked about CBT in the past, under certain circumstances.

My wife finds it disrespectful to psychoanalyze her in her absence and suggest that she needs therapy.

Just bring the problem up frequently and talk to him about its impact on you. Telling him what a problem it is and pleading with him to solve it with you is respectful. Specifying what the solution is (therapy) is not. That puts you in something that looks more like a parent-child relationship, where you are the expert who knows what he needs. He will probably run from any discussions about the subject if that is what you are thinking!!!

Oh, Markos that is NOT what I have done. I've brought up therapy twice: the first time was in December when I suggested Steve. The last time was a couple of weeks ago when I asked him if I could go to therapy and told him about this guy who works with a lot of physicians who are going through a hard time with their career. I NEVER EVER act like the expert. It is actually the opposite. I always defer to him.... I'm having to learn to speak up. I would NEVER EVER tell him what he should do..... Even with the therapist I just said this is something that might help. Instead I have said things like when you say you feel trapped or ( too personal won't put it) and ( too personal), I feel so sad and helpless. I just don't know how to deal with it. I feel like we are hamsters in a wheel as we have just gone over and over this situation but we can't ever seem to come up with ways to get out of the trap or maze..

That is what I say. My husband is so much smarter and better than I am and has so much wisdom. It is why it has taken me so long to speak up. I don't trust that what I have to say is worth anything... Plus i never want to make him upset or mad at me or to get in trouble.. I try very hard to make sure everything sounds good.

Today's show was REALLY REALY good on POJA and passive aggressive people. Very helpful..

So I was thinking of two situations: one in the past ad one in the future. The first one is something that happened 3 or 4 years ago. I was singing in the praise team and a little less than 2 weeks before Easter we got the word that his sister and her family were coming to his parent's house over Easter weekend. ( 4 hours away) Well actually they were staying an entire week. The praise team was doing the special songs and I was the only soprano.. My husband's work schedule was such so that he could only go on Saturday morning and come back Sunday afternoon. So I came up with a plan: He and the kids would go on Saturday. He would come back on Sunday and we could have a romantic night and then I would drive down and spend the week with his family. ( His sister has 3 kids that are our ages so they could spend the week together.) I was SO surprised when he didn't shoot it down because he has always been family comes first, you need to cancel. However, Saturday morning he gets ready to leave and he was SO mad at me for not coming. He knew he should have said something but he was working so much he didn't have time to think about it until that morning. He came back and Sunday and was so upset. No romantic evening. Just him mad and me crying...

Yet, I'm not sure I did anything wrong. Now this was WAY before marriage builders, so we weren't having any UA time or anything. But if we had POJA then the default situation would have been that I wouldn't go to church and he wouldn't go to his family.. I guess, to me, that seems like it would have just made both of us mad. I would have been letting people down at the last minute. I have NO trouble missing Easter (did this year). My problem was leaving them in the lurch with less than 2 weeks notice on the biggest Sunday of the year. I love his family. They are great. He would have been resentful if ALL of them were not together. ( They were all sad as every member of the family was there except me.... It wasn't my sil's fault either. Her husband is in the military and so it was a last minute change of plans because of his job... I'm just not seeing a way to POJA out of that without at least one of us being upset.

Now a present day one... What if I wanted to get a job? The problem is that he would want me to get one where I could go on 2 week trips every quarter or mission trips or go to visit if his sister comes in town. I'm not sure a job like that exists... So POJA means I stay home, correct? How would you POJA it? We don't NEEd me to work. As the kids grow up and leave the nest, I feel the need to do something for me. It is just hard to figure out what that could be that won't interfere with what hubby wants to do...

Good show, though today.

Volunteer work?

Find someplace that needs volunteers and let them know that you'll be taking two weeks/quarter off to travel with your hubby, etc.

That's assuming you've POJA'ed the idea. But assuming he's on-board, any reason why you can't do volunteer work?

tiredwife,

On the job you can do contract. My DH was a contract merchandiser and worked when he wanted and took time off when he needed it. He did that for the month we transitioned from NC to Ohio so he could be at the new or old house for appointments. It worked well for us.

Steph

Thanks for the suggestions.. My degree is in secondary ed, but I don't really want to go back and teach in public school... Considering teaching in private and putting my daughter in there( we're homeschooling), but that would really curtail traveling and I doubt my hubby would go for that..

Volunteering...yes, I thought about that but I guess this is the obstacle: His work hours are different every week. Most of the time we are getting our dates in on Thursday and Friday as he gets off early then SOMETIMES. Today he is post call, so no Thursday afternoon off today. Instead it will be Friday. I guess I couldn't tell the boys and girls club that I could be there EVERY Tuesday or EVERY Thursday because sometimes surgeries cancel and he wants us to be free to go out. He always gets so disappointed if I have something else planned and he ends up getting free.. It has to be something where I could cancel at a moment's notice and I'm not sure what that is...

As far as contract work...mmm maybe tutoring? I'd have to figure out how to do that...

Thanks for helping me think outside the box. I just want to be prepared...

I guess until this year when we started MB, I've always just done whatever for the kids and for his career and now "I" would like to have something that is mine... Is it fair for him to have to adjust to that?? Or am I being selfish and having independent behaviour? I would like to spread my wings and be successful in my own right instead of Dr ....'s wife or ....'s mom.. Does that make sense? But I can't figure out a way to do that without upseting everybody else's needs...

First I want to say that you and your husband both come across as the most fabulous people. It is amazing to read about your problems, I am guessing that nobody who knows you personally has any idea that you are not the perfect couple. I applaud you for going the extra mile for your marriage.

So with regard to your situation three or four years ago. POJA could have helped in two ways. First you would have POJAed the original decision to sing meaning that you would both have made that decision and then the unwind would have been a joint responsibility. Secondly, you would have done a better job of POJAing the change. He didn't think it through and just agreed to what you suggested. Now you would brainstorm together rather than presenting a solution. So even if the solution had turned out to be exactly what you eventually did, both of you would have felt better about it.

Over to today. You are going to POJA what ever is pushing you to get a job, not the job itself. So if it is financial independence, companionship, leaving a legacy, that is what you will discuss. Don't make the mistake of POJAing a solution; you POJA the problem and together FIND a solution.

Ok, good then we have a good start. I've told him repeatedly that I am at loose ends. I am having more time on my hands and don't know what to do with it. I want my life to matter out in the world not just in our small little family. Friends would be nice as well since I have NONE. I told him I would really like to make some friends as well..girlfriends of course.. He just isn't sure what would make me happy and I'm not either. Also, part of it is our different mindset. He has no loyalty to organizations, period which can be good. But if we sign up our daughter for soccer and she misses 3 out of 6 games for family stuff, then I don't think she should have signed up.. See, he had absolutely no problem with me singing at Easter UNTIL the situation came up with his sister. He was in agreement with that. He just thinks that any family stuff takes precedent over anything else and I'm not sure I agree...

He had no problem because he did not understand the nature of the commitment. Had you POJAed this, you would have said

"I am being asked to sing and the good news is that I will be the solo soprano but the bad news is that it is a commitment that cannot be broken if a family plan comes up because there are no substitutes".

Then the two of you would have decided together whether to commit or not.

Ok, I'm not sure he would allow me to commit to anything, then... But that is a good point. I will bring that up to him today. Now I have all the Sundays I'm on Praise Team in our calendar that he gets on his phone. Now with the exception of Christmas and Easter, we all switch around, though so it is easy for me to get out of it. Plus, to be honest, right now we're without a music minister and have interims and its all flexible right now anyway...

So, whenever ( if ever, who knows when this will be under control) they have the praise team sing a special, I need to say I can't miss is that ok? I still think he will be resentful that he won't get to do what he wants when he wants since he's been able to do that for our whole marriage. But I will ask him if that is ok and if he would be ok letting me commit if something came up. I'm thinking the answer is no.