I think I can be good, but I am also capable of telling myself all kinds of horse crap at this point.

The threat and risk of another AO is real. Only thing is I did very well for 9 weeks and I am removing the beer factor.

Yes no more drinking. I was using the "it'll help me calm down/chill a little" lie. I have committed to my WW, kids, and friends that I just cannot and must not start/have any at all.

My agitations have all come from my snooping activities. I am considering just stopping looking at all that data--if she makes contact and starts up the affair again I'll go to plan B at that point.

She says the OM is done with her--if that is true she should start coming around more with time. If not, I'll move to plan B pretty soon. Not because I like plan B or think it is the best move for restoring love--but just to keep from losing my head and ruining my life with an out of control AO.

This is just my reasoning and immediate plan for the next few days--open to input, correction, ideas.

Be on very good behavior. Stay on very good behavior. Do NOT have an AO !!

You can do this. Yes you can.

Remember: IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO FALL IN LOVE WITH AN ANGRY MAN.

No drinking. No temper tantrums. No name calling. No filthy language from your mouth. And for the love of pete, no storming off with any weapons ! I don't care if it is a plastic knife or a cast iron skillet !

And by the way, I think you are going to make it, DBD. I think you and your WW are going to make it.

It's a long road. It is extremely hard. But I think you can do it.

For the record, this forum has helped me immeasurably.

I am extremely thankful and indebted to you all for your input. I do not take it lightly or blow it off when it is not what I want to hear.

I do not know why you do it or how much time you invest in it, but I know it is a life saver to me and many drowning in pain and confusion and fear like me.

I feel you may well be intrinsic in saving my marriage--but even if not, you will be intrinsic in saving my life. That is no small matter to me.

So really, thank you.

I'll tell you why I do it;

Because someone listened to me once. In my crazy, babbling anger.

Because someone once reached out a hand and helped me up.


Because I have the strength to pass it on, and would never judge those who don't.

Hey all, been a week..or two. Started the new job and been swamped. Here is an update and a few questions.

I cut back on a lot of my snooping to help prevent me from having an AO on little stuff. But I am monitoring a few things.

WW has had no contact with OM for 31 days now. She comes home, wears rings, interacts, and we are physical at least once a week.

WW says it is over--because I "ruined it, controlled it" and not to worry. She makes no commitment to never talk to OM but insists OM will never talk to her again.

WW says she is worried about me having a grudge affair, reverting back to my old distracted self, having more AOs, wanting to kill the OM, and just being too conservative of a person in general--not having much fun. She has indicated that she is with me because I would not allow her to leave and i am stuck with her now how she is.

So...she is here, 30+ days with no contact, but not ideal. no repentance, no real commitments, and lost of insecurities remain.

I'm trying to just stay steady, no AOs, make the home nice, reading Love Busters, working the new job, demonstrate a desire to meet needs, etc.

What do you all think? Should I be doing other? Should I be making any demands / setting expectations?

Does this sound normal? Will things / her commitment get better slowly now after 30 days of no contact?

Any input appreciated. I remain hopeful.

DBD, this does sound normal, and I think you still have a chance here.

If your genders were reversed, if you were a wife and your wife were a wayward husband, Dr. Harley would tell you to never accept such a situation. But somehow, men and women are wired in such a way that you have a good chance to pursue and win your wife under such circumstances. Even if she hasn't done all the required steps yet.

Your wife is in serious, SERIOUS withdrawal, and you will need to learn everything Dr. Harley says about abuse and control and implement his solutions. Can you do this? You need to start learning and changing.

It sounds like you have started changing - can you continue to have absolutely NO angry outbursts? And start to learn how to never say or do anything she might perceive as demanding or disrespectful?


Can you take this woman out on a DATE???


Have you implemented your own personal plan to take extraordinary precautions to avoid ever having an affair? Are you completely transparent with your wife? Do you disallow yourself from having any female friends?

It needs to be more than no contact. It needs to be TOTAL HUSBAND MAKEOVER.

Do you listen to Marriage Builders Radio daily? If not, why on earth not??? You can't afford to pass up free help from the expert.

Hi DBD! I would hyperfocus on being the best husband you can be. Tell her you do not want that old marriage back and want her help in creating a new marriage that is happy and romantic. Did you buy the books I suggested and leave them lying around?

Also, how would snooping cause you to have an AO?? That should PREVENT AO's! You should be snooping like a blood hound and if you find she is in contact, you should confront her without AOs. Can you do that?

Don't stop snooping!!

Has she written a NC letter to OM?

AGree with Markos, can you take her out on a date?

When she says you are too conservative, does that mean you discuss politics around her?

No NC letter. I emailed an example a while back to her and she got angry and said it was crazy. She still loves and wants the guy, but he will not talk to her at this time.

Mel--I am logging the gps, watching FB msg, phone records, and email. Seeing the texts between her and her friends and seeing the keylogger reports was pissing me off daily. Last AO was from keylogger where I saw she was looking up OM on facebook to see his pictures. Tried to confront it with no AO, but she got mad and belligerent and it escalated to me wanting to just leave and go kill the guy--decided it was better to just not see everything.

I have the books as suggested. I'm reading Love Busters now but she has yet to pick up Surviving an Affair from the corner of my desk. Want to work on Five Steps once she is motivated enough to start it.

I'm catching about a fourth of the radio broadcasts.

We go to lunch once a week and a date at least once a week.

I do not have formal EPs in place to prevent an affair on my side. Been utterly faithful for 23+ years so most things are already in place--can't give up access to all my computer stuff or she will know my snoop tools. No female friends or unaccounted for time on my side currently.

The NC letter is crucial, absolutely crucial.

Looking up his photos is still contact, and it resets your recovery every time she sees his face. FB should be deleted at this point. Your recovery CANNOT proceed like this. I'm not altogether sure there IS NC anyway.

If you bring it up again, try not to respond to her baiting -- which it seems like it was.

I think he means fuddy duddy, stuffy, never wants to have any fun.

But if she is annoyed by politics - stop discussing it with her! Dr. Harley's parents were very happily married even though he was a free market capitalist and she was a socialist.

No, it is not politics. It has to do with spending money, having fun, standing on principles, going into debt, faith vs. open sin--stuff like that.

To WW, I represent work, the OM represents fun and freedom.

This is where it gets tricky. She deleted his pics off her phone, grieved a lot, then started looking at the 4 pics on his FB.

If I demand a NC letter or that she never look at his pics I suppose she will come back with me being the rotten controlling bass turd she knows I am and just threaten to move out. If she moves out, the OM will start talking again.

Well, start getting her out three or four times a week!

Does she enjoy your dates?

Have you blocked Facebook?

It is crucially important that you understand and accept that nothing she does can make you have an angry outburst.

So "tried to confront it with no AO, but she got mad" does not mean having an angry outburst is a normal thing to do. Notice how you worded the next part "it escalated." You aren't accepting the blame for your own AOs. Instead of "I escalated" or "I got out of hand" you blamed your mistake on some nameless "it."

Try wording it this way: "Tried to confront it with no AO, but she got mad and belligerent so I chose to try to solve my problem through temporary insanity." Do you think temporary insanity is a good problem solving strategy? It isn't, of course, but that's what we do when we have an angry outburst: we choose to become temporarily insane in response to something that frustrated us.

Next time try: "Tried to confront it with no AO, but she got mad and belligerent so I shut up and didn't say or do anything until I had calmed down and wasn't frustrated any more."


Keep it up, and get more!

I think she enjoys the dates. No bad experiences yet.

Blocking FB would be a huge deal to her--she uses it to connect with a lot of family. I think she may be open to a combined FB with me--would that suffice?

She did give me the password to her FB so I could check her msgs and all--she acts like she has nothing to hide. OM has very, very little on his FB and no updates in the last 6 months.