I think it boils down to that we should be in the frame of mind that we share them and the other should make every effort to avoid them. It would be easy if it was as simple as it sounds. It�s hard to deviate from actions that are comfortable for us��not an excuse, but more of a wake up, hello moment for wipedout on that one.

Steve likened it today to his golf swing. He didn�t learn correctly when he learned to first golf. Now he has some horrible habits and his swing is awful. He can manage through his habits and still play golf and get by but it is not the best he can be because he is not using the �instruments� that are proven for golfing success.

He was providing an example of the overall behavior that bothers him. I will take care in the future. I let it become about me and at that moment it was about him.

Here is where I see we are positioned. We didn�t make it through the full interview of this LB so I am unclear of the full expectation but I have a good idea. It is easy to provide you my position as a defense.

The call with Steve today helped me see that his sharing my LBs was to be solely about him. That however does not mean we do not achieve guideline #2 of successful negotiation. What does the transition from hearing the others concern like LBs to identifying the others perspective look? What is the timing on this? Is it the original sharer who initiates learning the others perspective to gain alignment?

Thanks for calling it like it is. You are right. Constant realignment with the �instruments� are going to been needed for my bad habits!!!

I need a new belief system as Steve calls it. I think prior to him sharing LBs with me, I should review the instruments so that I am aware and they are at the forefront of my thoughts.

You are right that I can prove by simply asking him to physically show me. I don�t think it should be needed although it would make me feel better to know I was right and he was wrong�. But the issue wasn�t about who is right or wrong, it was about how my lack of care in picking up things hurts him. Thanks for your comments!

I can see your point.

I like that quote!

Our weekend assignment is to finish our LB and EN interviewing and to read about UA. He is reluctant to have us implement UA until we can fully understand how it works. He said if we do not spend the time correctly it can actually hurt us so he expressed the importance of getting through the LB and EN interviews. Our next call is scheduled for Tuesday.

I am so depressed from the balance of my love bank. I am so hurt all the time. I continue to press forward with what I have control. How do I stop crying from what I can't control.

What happened?

Nothing new. I'm hyper-sensitive. I receiced tickets to an event today and I really wanted to ho. H didnt want to go because SD11 is with us this weekend(we have her 50%). During a dinner prayer, H thanked God for SD11 who was with us. Nothing about me. Then my mind went to the picture H has on his phone wallpaper. It is of H and SD21s children that SD21 keeps away from me. When I saw he had changed the picture from me (which he had for a few years) to them, I was hurt. When I shared that with him when it happened (6 months ago) he told me he had a problem if I felt I should be the only one on his phone. H had the grandson on his tablet at the time and that didn't bother me. I just feel alone and unimportant. I hurt so badly.

We are suppose to sit down in a few minutes to work on sharing the rest of our LBs and ENs. I am a depressed wreck.

If he never has another AO again, you are on the right track to getting your EN met, and the depression will go away.

No AOs so far.

You are not hyper-sensitive. You are abused and neglected.

The things you listed are things that you should be able to negotiate. But, sadly, negotiation is impossible right now as long as the threat of abuse hangs over you. It is understandable that you are depressed.

Thanks so much for your message Prisca!! It really helped me to hear that I am abused and neglected and that it was understandable that I am depressed.

I have my doubts about the ability of H to stick with the plan. We spent two days over the weekend sharing all LBs and five of the ENs. There were no AOs, but lots of fear from me from the past but I pressed on. We shared all the LBs and five of the ENs. H wanted to stop after five.

Although he did not have an AO, I can tell he is very upset. He is very distant even today. I have a feeling it is because in sharing my ENs he sees that I need him to stick up for me with SD21 and that will mean that she will shut him out because she is not getting her way and therefore he will not get to see the grandchildren. Prior to this program, he insisted I just need to deal with the relationship because he is not pushing his daughter to the side. I have always had a hard time being able to get him to understand my feelings around it all.

It is not that I don�t want him to have a relationship with her. I encouraged it in the beginning and pushed to have her come live with us right after we married so she could get her high school diploma. He didn�t want her there because we were newly married. I knew that we wouldn�t have another chance and we needed to do the right thing.

I think sharing ENs and LBs has allowed me to have an easier way to share my feelings not focused on the topic of SD21 but as my feelings in general. I want to be stood up for and someone to help fight my battles, like he did when we were dating with issues with my XH.

Our previous marriage counselor told us that I needed to let him have his relationship with her. She said, I just needed help in dealing with her shutting me out. He has hung onto that and uses it to support his stance. I shouldn�t get between a daddy and his daughter is what he and the counselor would say. I don�t think that it would have been a problem had he not wanted me to try to have a relationship with her but he did and now I hurt and badly it is. He hides things about her and I feel he pretends I�m not in the picture when he is with her. Needless to say, my feelings of him having an �affair� are stronger than they have ever been.

I believe in the program. I know if it is followed romantic love will be restored. It will be a tough road ahead for both of us.

In our discussions there are three things that concern me. First, when he brought up the LB of AO from me, he experiences no unhappiness from me and that he actually wished I would have AOs. I asked him why and he said that he saw his parents do it. Wow� not the relationship I want. I am for talking about things and working through them but only done so in a respectful way with care and concern for the other.

The next item that concerned me is when I brought up my need for honesty and openness. I told him I needed radical honesty. I had said this to him early on in our marriage but a marriage counselor (different one then I spoke of above) told me that there are some things that just should not be shared so as to not hurt the other. I highly disagree. That doesn�t provide connectedness in my opinion. I don�t want to purposely hurt him but I want to be completely open.

This idea has made me nervous to share two ENs tonight. SF and PA. He already thinks he isn�t good in bed and he knows he is overweight and 14 years older than me. I know my feelings will hurt him but they are my feelings. Should I table this discussion till after we speak with Steve tomorrow? My guess is that Steve will be able to logic with him as to why radical honesty is needed.

Then when I shared my emotional need of DS, in him asking questions he asked what was the expectation of cleaning up the dog puke on the carpet. We came to the position that maybe that was trying to solve the issue so we tabled it to talk to Steve. The concern is that he views them as expectations, I view them as desires. I feel that expectations lead to the controlled feelings. Anyone have thoughts around that?

You are engaged in the DJ's again when you start saying "I know my feelings will hurt him..."

You are saying he can't handle the truth, which does neither of you any good.

Personally, I view expectation as standard. It's hard to hit the target if you don't know the target.

This program deals in specifics. There is an expectation that you have 15+ hours of UA time. That's a quantifiable standard, an expectation that must be met to ensure success.

If you want SF, then there is likely a number or range of numbers that you have in mind to satisfy your EN.

If I understand correctly, expectations are critical to the success of the program.

However, demands are not part of the program. Is it possible he is experiencing expectations as demands? If he's not in enthusiastic agreement, I could see him viewing expectations more like demands.

Just thinking out loud here.

Good point. He is the one that is telling me he can't handle the truth. He doesn't want radical honesty. I however do. What do I do if he says he doesn't want to know because he can't handle the truth?

AH!!!! Great view point! SDs has been a part of my marriage since day one so it sound like I am having trouble with the difference between expectations and SDs. Great insight.

So if you could help me with my thoughts. How detailed is my expectation to be? I want the dog puke cleaned up immediately. He asks what does immediate look like. To me that depends on the situation. He asked if the dog did it in the morning if he needed to clean it up and be late for work. Part of me says it can wait till he comes home but then he says when he gets home the girls have a softball game and we need to feed them so the evening is booked so does he just wait?

We are fairly new to this process. Your help is appreciated!!

HELP!!!!!!

H: I am scared to ask you something.
Me: I�m sorry. What makes you scared?
H: I am afraid you will be hurt or mad. I am concerned.
Me: concerned about?
H: concerned for you. I don�t want you to hurt.

He feels I will not like what he has to say... my guess is ... he wants to do something with SD21.

How should I handle this?

Ask him what he would like to say. Thank him for his honesty, whatever it is, and do not get angry or disrespectful.

If you cannot discuss it without being angry or disrespectful, ask for time to respond.

Ok, thanks Prisca.... I need you on speed dial!

Be sure to thank him for his honesty. You do not want to discourage honesty.

OK.... SD21 asked him if he and SD11 could come over for dinner wednesday night. me an my two children are not invited of course.

this is where i'm not sure of my feelings. it is hurtful. my 13 year old made a gift for her newborn and she will be hurt that she wasn't invited. i am hurt that H doesn't insist i am a part of his life and should come too. He says my youngest has a softball game so I will be at that and he will miss it.

my response to him was Ah! thanks for sharing! can i get back with you?

It is not his fault SD21 is acting this way. I don't know what to feel or tell him. In the past I would just say whatever and let him go, which would build resentment. I know he can't change her and he gets upset with me when I communicate anything along the lines of trying. I don't know how to communicate with him on this. She doesn't respect me at all. I don't like that he requires me to respect her but not the other way around. It hurts.

Yep, sometimes truth hurts.

However the pain is often easier to take if you each have some glimmer of hope for improvement.


This is negotiation. What are each of you enthusiastic about? You lay out the problems and brainstorm all the potential solution.

I.E Problem = dog pukes.

Solutions.

1. He cleans it up now.
2. He cleans it later.
3. You clean it up now.
4. You clean it up later.
5. The dog finds a new home, lives outside so he/she can't puke in the house.

And so on.

You work to find one that each of you is enthusiastic about.

Much of this is easier when each of you is operating with a full love bank. When the bank is depleted by LBs it's difficult to trust that negotiation will result in a win-win solution.

If I recall correctly, there has to be a balance of your Giver and Taker. When the Love Bank is overdrawn, there is a lot more taker than giver.

When relationships first start, there is often a lot more giver than taker, and that is not sustainable either.

I may not say it well, but the point is, the program has to not only offer you an improved marriage, but it must offer him the same. Just as you get to define what makes a good marriage for you, he too gets to define what makes a good marriage for him.

What is it that leads him to believe it's not in his best interests to both be honest, sharing how his thoughts and feeling, nor allowing you to do the same?

It reads as if he not only doesn't enjoy when you share, but he is afraid to share as well.

I told H that I am not enthusiastic about SD21 being in our lives right now (per suggestion from Prisca on an earlier post-THANKS!). His response....no AO! Yeah! Then he said can I share with you? He said he is not enthusiastic about her not being in his life. Nice eh?!? Well at least no AO! He is learning. I said I can understand that. Topic is tabled for Steve tomorrow.