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Why dialog with this a-hole?

When I finally had the chance to communicate with the POSOM first thing I said was, "I didn't know that $hi+ can talk.

Then I threatened that if he ever made contact with my wife I would be coming after him.

We haven't heard from him since.

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To keep the evidence flowing in? One of the things you need to prove alienation of affection is that the OM is aggressively trying to break up the marriage.


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
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I would simply add a statement saying,

"if you are truly deluded enough to believe that my wife would never come back to me and her being with you has nothing to do with her decisions regarding our marriage then why don't you test that theory and cut off contact with her and see what she does? You have small window of opportunity to redeem yourself by taking yourself out of our marriage, can you do that??? Or are you too scared that I am right and you are infact the sole reason why my wife is abandoning our marriage?"


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Okay, so here is my draft thus far (haven't sent it yet)

You're obviously very manipulative and know how to make yourself look like a victim. You're not a victim. You are a loser. You claim to love your wife and yet you cheated on her multiple times. Half your e-mail was complaining about how she wouldn't be intimate with you. Obviously sex is a HUGE deal to you. You're a loser because you would move in on someone else's wife. You're a loser because you would cheat on your wife. Sooner or later WS will realize this of you. If you weren't a loser, you would have divorced her and then found someone that was single. You keep saying you don't want to destroy my marriage and you don't want to hurt people, and yet YOU KEEP SLEEPING WITH MY WIFE. Every minute you continue this affair you are selfishly destroying my marriage, and hurting people, so don't give me your [censored] about not wanting to hurt people. And the statistics I gave you were not found last week. You think I only started doing research last week? Really? Oh, and you want to be CORDIAL with me? I told you to leave my wife alone, and you spat in my face, and you want to be cordial with me? Are you serious? Are you delirious? I told your parents I wasn't mad or held any ill will against you at one point in time. Once you made it clear that you refused to leave my wife alone, that all changed, and trust me when I say this, *I AM NOT GOING AWAY*. If WS talks about me at all, you know that I am a nice guy. You know that I don't just go around throwing insults around lightly. You know that I have extreme empathy for people, and I care a whole lot about my family and friends. When it comes to you and me, I am *not* that guy. I am [censored] Heisenberg, [censored].

P.S. Whether I can ever trust WS again should be none of your concern. You should be concerning yourself however, with whether or not you can trust her. My family shouldn't be your concern either. You should really be concerned about your family. The way your relationship started will darken your family's doorstep forever. Yes you have the right to make your own choices, and YES some choices are illegal. I am not going away.

P.P.S This is as "cordial" as I am going to get with you. Know that I am a *very* forgiving person. If you are truly deluded enough to believe that my wife would never come back to me and her being with you has nothing to do with her decisions regarding our marriage then why don't you test that theory and cut off contact with her and see what she does? You have a small window of opportunity to REDEEM yourself by taking yourself out of our marriage, can you do that??? Or are you too scared that I am right and you are in fact the sole reason why my wife is abandoning our marriage?


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 513
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Sorry I forgot to censor stuff in that last copy/paste. Did it auto-censor ?


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
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Another point you can make to him is

"I can see how irritated you are when I make statements about you based on information I received from your wife. Her version of your marriage is very different from the slop story you are spewing. Baring that in mind do you not see that I KNOW my wife better than you and her statements to you about our marriage could be as wrong as your your wife's or even your view of your marriage??"

Regarding trust issues

"Really made me laugh your insinuation that I would never be able to trust my wife again. I dated and married my wife without braking up a marriage or hurting anyone, I have shared xxx years with the best most beautiful version of her , you on the other hand are with the worst version, a woman who abandons her husband and sleeps with a married man while she is still married. I know the woman I married can earn my trust again, do you trust the woman your sleeping with now?? Or even more puzzling, does she trust you?? What happens if she gets sick and can't perform are you going to run to the next married man and steal your next girlfriend. Talking about logic? You clearly have NONE"


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 513
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I like that NB28, I'll use that too.


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
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Odd your letter calling him looser comes across as too angry and gives him the satisfaction that he hit a nerve.

Reply calmly, with two goals in mind, 1) stir up conflict between them and 2) getting him to incriminate himself and strengthen any legal action you peruse against him.

I don't know what others will think of this but I would put some plan A things in the letter in case your WW reads it for example.

You don't know my wife, the woman who just X months ago was blissfully laying in my arms planning our baby and who .........(insert nice romantic memory)


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 513
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Good call. I will take out the insults.


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
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I repeat. I would not engage him. I would simply say I am going to fight for my marriage and if you stand in my way I will roll over you.

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Maybe finish with "you don't know me either, just because you were a weak man and abandoned your marriage when it hit a problem ( your wife's cancer) does not mean I am like you. I respect the marriage wows I made and therefore love my wife enough to fight for her. Shame you weren't man enough to do so in your own marriage and instead chose to destroy an innocent persons marriage. I wouldn't expect a selfish, self entered man like you to understand this or any of the other statements I made but I won't be deterred from stating the truth of the situation you are in"


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 513
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I like that too. I'm getting conflicting advise though. Some are saying to engage, some are saying not to. Again the goal here is to get evidence.


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
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Originally Posted by MrWondering
Originally Posted by OddJob123
Next week I am getting with my lawyer to talk about suing OM, and also divorce options.


Yes...if you want the document you'll need to email me. It's not that big a deal so it's no worries if you are uncomfortable doing so.


Thought of a little easier thing you may be able to do to harass the affair more immediately. Ask your lawyer about filing a restraining order against OM. See an AOA lawsuit just involves filing a complaint and then OM files an answer and it takes a year or more for discovery and then a trial to take place. If a restraining order can be sought, usually a court date can be obtained much quicker. You'll bring it in your name but asking the court to restrain him from contact with you and/or your family. Since adultery is illegal in Utah and AOA is actionable...seems that alone (together with any and all harassing emails) would be enough to get a nice conservative Utah judge to grant you an order forbidding OM from harassing and attempting "alienating" you [and your wife].

Might be a more efficient and effective way to attack the affair.


In pursuit of such, I'd also have you engage OM in some more strategic text/email wars. Say something like:

"I've been thinking more about your email the other day and how disrespectful it was for you to speak to me on behalf of my wife. You don't speak for her. Between the two of us...I am her husband and you are merely a paramour. "I" would be the one to speak for her.

As such, please be advised that you are doing her great harm. Your continued adultery is ruining her life. Despite what she's told you, up until 2 or 3 months ago we were a happy young couple attempting to get pregnant with our first child. Sure we had some struggles as most young couples do but we were absolutely in a sound, loving and normal marriage. I wish it were better than it was but it wasn't anywhere close to as bad as she's made it out to be.

Absolutely nothing good will ever result of your relationship which is based upon the deceit and hurt of others. It is soul sick and I formally request that you stop hurting me and my wife. Divorcing your cancerous wife is a huge mistake but if that's what you choose to do surely from there you can go out and find your own woman instead of trying to illegally steal one from someone else. {_wife's name__} is mine. She was given to me by her parents and God on {_wedding date__}. It is my duty to protect her. I know you hoped this would be easy but I refuse to stand idly by while you destroy her life. If you truly care about her you will realize deep down that I am twice the man you are and so much better for {wife's name} than some $___/hour loser that lies and cheats on his sick and loving wife. Go away so that we may commence work on rebuilding what you have torn asunder.


p.s. - I know this is stupid trying to educate a cheater but someone needs to educate you...straying wives always tell their paramours that they would NEVER consider getting back together with their husbands. She just doesn't want you to feel guilty. She wants you focused on her not any negative feelings about what your are doing to me and your wife. However, after an affair ends nearly every time they do attempt reconciliation with the husband of their youth. In fact, a significant majority of couples reconcile after an affair whereas the numbers are against you. 80% of affairs end in two years and only 5% make it to marriage and only 2% of those make it 5 years. Thus, I am much more likely than you to be with her two years from now. Realize also, that the primary reason most marriage don't recover is actually because the betrayed husband doesn't want to reconcile. The world is full of divorced straying wives that completely regret losing their perfectly good [but not perfect] husbands for some loser they mistakenly thought was their soul-mate. Please reconsider what you are doing to her and end the affair. The sooner the better...for her"



Hopefully OM will engage you and get angry. Ask him to meet you (and a buddy of yours) in the parking lot behind the local Kroger or local bar to talk (implying you want to beat him up or something but never saying that at all). Maybe throw in a "are you scared of me...lol" (realizing all OM are fearful of the BH's by nature...they know they deserve a butt whipping). You want to provoke him and get HIM to make actually make some idle threats because such would be good evidence for your restraining order petition. It's usually easy to do...because OM's always have to put up a brave front for their affair partner...so they will often TRY to talk tough (they just lack the commitment to follow through with anything). The more you can get him upset and documenting it while staying calm...the better. Remember too...your text messages and emails will be seen by the same judge so be smart about it. Maybe try to get him to call you (and have an app on your phone recording the phone call). OM is less likely to be strategic when talking.


Tell your attorney the most important thing is to get him to show up in court to contest the restraining order...with your wife...and for the attorney to get them on the stand and grill him (much more so than your wife). I don't know if you'll get it granted but the Judge is the law and (s)he can order whatever (s)he decides. Winning the order isn't necessary.


It's just my feeling that getting OM to end it with your wife is your best angle to bust up this affair. The more you hassle him the better. He needs to feel like you are relentless and he'll never get any peace with you around. Remember, you can't recover anything until it is busted up.


Mr. W


p.s. - this is to be a short expedition for two reasons:

1. When you fight dirty with a low-life, you need to realize that sometimes the low-life can beat you because they have much more experience being dirty rotten scoundrels. Be careful.

2. When you roll in the mud with a pig, you get dirty and the pig likes it. There's an element of this fight that OM and your wife enjoy. Your "crazy" battle feeds their rationalizations and justification as well as their entitlement. Part of her/them gets off on this. When you go to Plan B...they will miss you and this energy you may be providing their relationship.




Justthe3ofus,

MrWandering made quite a compelling suggestion to engage the OM. Did you see that????


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Posts: 1,155
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Odd

IMHO I agree with MrW, you are not getting on well with doing nothing and Plan A is very hard to implement when the A is this active so the most viable option you have right now is to concentrate all your efforts on destroying this A.

Concentrate on getting the evidence to sue the OM, on getting him sacked form his job. He is clearly not much of a fighter, look at the way he left his wife. If you can make this A enough trouble for him there is a good chance he will walk, giving you an excellent opportunity to reclaim your WW.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 513
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Okay... Here is the latest draft. A lot has been taken from NB28's advice.

You're obviously very manipulative and know how to make yourself look like a victim. You claim to love your wife and yet you cheated on her multiple times. Half your e-mail was complaining about how she wouldn't be intimate with you. Obviously sex is a HUGE deal to you. You keep saying you don't want to destroy my marriage and you don't want to hurt people, and yet YOU KEEP SLEEPING WITH MY WIFE. Every minute you continue this affair you are selfishly destroying my marriage, and hurting people, so don't give me your b******* about not wanting to hurt people. And the statistics I gave you were not found last week. You think I only started doing research last week? Really? Oh, and you want to be CORDIAL with me? I told you to leave my wife alone, and you spat in my face, and you want to be cordial with me? Are you serious? Are you delirious? I told your parents I wasn't mad or held any ill will against you at one point in time. Once you made it clear that you refused to leave my wife alone, that all changed, and trust me when I say this, *I AM NOT GOING AWAY*. If WS talks about me at all, you know that I am a nice guy. You know that I don't just go around throwing insults around lightly. You know that I have extreme empathy for people, and I care a whole lot about my family and friends. When it comes to you and me, I am *not* that guy. I am f***** Heisenberg, b****.

My family shouldn't be your concern. You should really be concerned about *your* family. The way your relationship started will darken your family's doorstep forever should it continue. Your insinuation that I would never be able to trust my wife again really made me laugh. I dated and married my wife without breaking up a marriage or hurting anyone, I have shared 10 years with the best most beautiful version of her. You on the other hand are with the worst version, a woman who abandons her husband and sleeps with a married man while she is still married. I know the woman I married can earn my trust again, and I know that our marriage can recover. Do you trust the woman you're sleeping with now?? Or even more puzzling, does she trust you?? What happens if she gets sick and can't perform, are you going to run to the next married man and steal your next girlfriend? Talking about logic. You clearly have NONE. Yes, you have the right to make your own choices, and YES some choices are illegal. You can make all the choices you want, but you cannot avoid the consequences of those choices. That is reality. I am not going away.

You don't know my wife, the woman who was only months ago was laying in my arms telling me how much she loved me, as we talked about what we were going to name our baby. At parties she would get a little tipsy and literally skip towards me with a fierceness, yelling my name at the top of her lungs, smiling from ear to ear as she came in to give me a big fat wet kiss, then try to get frisky with me there in front of everyone. You don't know me either, just because you were a weak man and abandoned your marriage when it hit a problem, does not mean I am like you. I respect the marriage vows I made and therefore love my wife enough to fight for her. Shame you weren't man enough to do so in your own marriage and instead chose to destroy an innocent person's marriage. I wouldn't expect a selfish, self entered man like you to understand this or any of the other statements I made but I won't be deterred from stating the truth of the situation you are in.

This is as "cordial" as I am going to get with you. Know that I am a *very* forgiving person. If you are truly deluded enough to believe that my wife would never come back to me and her being with you has nothing to do with her decisions regarding our marriage then why don't you test that theory and cut off contact with her and see what she does? You have a small window of opportunity to REDEEM yourself by taking yourself out of our marriage, can you do that??? Or are you too scared that I am right and you are in fact the sole reason why my wife is abandoning our marriage?


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
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You have evidence. What more could you possibly need?

Why have tea with the enemy? Why legitimize him with dialog? His response to you made me throw up in my mouth. Don't reason with him. Don't give him a chance to rationalize or blabber his twisted logic to you. Your only message to him should be you are my enemy, you are an evil stain on my marriage, and you need to leave my wife alone.

Don't waste words on this unworthy POSOM. Don't acknowledge him unless it is to feed him a knuckle sandwich. And that might not be a good idea.

I don't mean to get political here, but to borrow from Ronald Reagan your best policy in your diplomacy with POSOM is peace through strength. Say nothing at all and fight him through effective actions. And that's what Plan A is.


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Alienation of Affection cases can be tough. You don't just need evidence of the affair. You need evidence that the lover is aggressively trying to destroy your marriage, and that can be really tough since my wife's testimony is considered in the case. Her testimony will kill my case unless I have overwhelming evidence.


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
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Odd job,

I am not a vet on here so can I just suggest you hold onto that letter for a bit and wait for more vets to give you an input into the contents and if its ok to send it etc.



BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 513
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Ya, I am waiting. Anyone feel free to pick it apart, tell me to remove stuff, add stuff etc. I want to get the MOST incriminating response from him as possible.


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 513
O
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Posts: 513
Any e-mails I send him actually need to be pretty soon, as I sent his first and second e-mail to his company today, and they will get it on Monday. After that, should he find out about it, I doubt will communicate with me at all, haha.


Me: BH, 28
WW, 26
Married September 2005
D-Day: April 7, 2013
A started in February, 2013, and is ongoing
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