I'm guessing after her bubble popped yesterday, she wants to negotiate face-to-face.

Go back and Re-read Mr. W's post regarding how you should respond to her text message. The bullets he list might be used today in your discussion.

I agree with 20 years about keeping it light and avoiding relationship talk, but since she is meeting you to talk about the papers, it is probably unavoidable.

Go into that meeting with a plan. Have your list of things to say about the divorce and the future of your relationship, and say them succinctly. Say them with genuine heartfelt caring and love. No tears. No desperation. Just present the facts as you see them: we can have a marriage that is better than ever if we do thing things necessary to care for our relationship.

Be calm, caring, and confident. But not in a contrived way. I would take a few deep breaths before meeting her. If you are a prayerful person, I would ask for grace before the meeting begins.

Finally, brevity is the soul of wit. Not that you're trying to be witty, but you want to convey your thoughts effectively. Don't repeat yourself. Impart what you need to express clearly and one time. And then give your attention to her.

Good luck, friend.

I'm also going to make sure to tell her before I go that I'm sad because this might be one of the last times I ever see her. That if she goes through with this, we will not be friends. I will never see or talk to her again, in order to protect myself.

So then you leaving Plan A before the divorce? How long does it take for the divorce process to complete in your state?

No, I meant if the divorce is finalized we will no longer be friends - as many of you have suggested I say.

Have a plan for something else fun to do if she does warm up and you don't want to hang out at coffee shop.

Also, maybe instead of forever telling her you can be best friends and have a happy marriage (which it sounds like she has not been enjoying that statement) just tell her that you realize many mistakes that you made and are working on being a better man/husband.

Alright. Meeting over. She was emotionally cold to me the whole time. Was obviously very uncomfortable. She couldn't look me in the eye. When we got to the part where I wanted to talk about us, she just stared off into space with her mouth part way open, emotionless, like she wasn't even paying attention as I poured my heart out. I recorded the whole thing, so I'm going to transcribed what happened. I think I made some tactical mistakes in hindsight. But what can you do?

Me: "Hey WS"

Her: "I'm just going to get something to drink"

Me: "Okay"

Her: "I didn't see your truck outside?"

Me: "Oh, I parked out back"

*she comes to the table with her coffee*

Me: "How are you?" *smiling and cheerful*

Her: "Good...."

Me: "Cool" *she gives me a notion of confusion of why I'm looking happy* "I'm just happy to see ya."

Her: "Ya?..."

Me: "What have you been up to?"

Her: "Just working"

Me: "How's work?"

Her: "Good"

Me: "Did you ever get that raise that you were looking for?"

Her: "Um.. Ya, I got a raise like, a month and a half ago"

Me: "Oh really? So how much are they paying you now? If you don't mind me asking."

Her: "$11"

Me: "Cool. You deserve more than that."

Her: "I know"

Me: "What did they tell you about that, are they not?..."

Her: "We just did a ton of lay offs"

Me: "Oh really, how come?"

Her: "It's the slow season."

Me: "Is it like, permanent layoffs, or just seasonal layoffs?"

Her: "It's seasonal"

Me: "Have you been catching up on Game of Thrones at all, or no?"

Her: "I don't really want to talk about TV, BS..."

Me: "So you haven't been catching up on it?"

Her: "No, how would I?"

Me: "It's really good"

Her: "I'm sure it is"

Me: "You need to watch it"

Her: "I will"

Me: "So, what are your plans? Are you wanting to go to school or?

Her: "Yes"

Me: "I can tell you're kind of uncomfortable talking about these things. If you want to say anything to me, feel free."

Her: "I think I've said everything"

Me: "Okay, well, if you don't want to talk, there's some things I'd like to say, if that's okay. You're probably going to react to this negatively. All I ask, is that, you take what I say, into consideration. Think about it, don't just forget about it. Just try to take it for what it's worth.

So, about that text that you sent me last night, saying that you didn't think that I loved you, that I see you as a possession."

Her: "You're not acting like it" (meaning that I'm not acting like I love her)

Me: "You need to know that I don't see you as a possession. I see you as my wife. When we got married, you committed yourself to me for life. I committed myself to you for life. No one force you to do that, no one forced me to do that -

Her: "I understand that"

Me: "That was a completely voluntary action. And so, you are no more a possession to me, than my arm is a possession to me. My arm is a part of me. I consider you a part of me. You're not a piece of property to own. I was just a little confused as to why you said that."

Her: "You act like, I'm being controlled right now."

Me: "I don't think you're being controlled."

Her: "And that, I can't make a decision for myself."

Me: "No, that's not what I think."

Her: "That's exactly how you're acting. You're telling me everything I'm doing is wrong, that everything I'm doing is a mistake. You're telling OM that he can influence me by ending it, or by telling me I need to go back to you, like what the hell is that?"

Me: "I never told him that."

Her: "Ooookay.. You told *suitor in waiting* the same thing."

Me: "I understand that you could have construed it that way."

Her: "Um, that's what you said."

Me: "I don't want to argue, but I think you need to know where my mindset is right now. Because I think right now, you think I'm still madly in love with you, that I'm desperate and crazy, and I would do anything to get you back. You need to know that nothing is further from the truth. You need to know that over this last month and a half everything that I've gone through, and everything that I've done has... *She gets up to go get her coffee*

*she comes back and sits back down*

Me: "Anyways, everything that I've gone through, and everything I've gone through, and everything you've done to me has caused me to fall out of any romantic love that I had for you, WS. At this point I love you like a brother loves a sister, I love you like a parent loves a child, or a child loves a parent. I don't feel any romantic love for you anymore. So knowing that, you'd probably ask why I am still doing the things I'm doing? There's two reasons for that.

The first reason is - I did marry you. And I did commit to you for life. I made a very sacred vow to you, and I'm not just going to roll over and break that vow. I take that vow very seriously, and when push comes to shove in the end, if that vow needs to be broken, it will, but I am not going to give up that easily.

The second reason, and most important reason to me, is that through this last month and a half, as I'm sure you can imagine, I've done a lot of thinking about what I could have done differently as a husband. Why you fell out of love with me, why you didn't consider me your best friend, and I have picked it apart and thought about, thought about it, and thought about it some more. I've read books, I've been talking to counselors, and I've come to realize the things I could have done different, and the things I know that I will do different in the future whether it's with you or with somebody else. And I'm very excited to implement those things.

And I know that me and you have the potential to be best friends again. I know that me and you have the potential to have a very happy marriage together, probably happier than we can even imagine. And because I know that, that is the other reason why I am doing the things that I am still doing.

I'm really sad right now, because, this may be the last time I ever see you or talk to you again. Or at least one of the last times. Like I said, you're a part of me, you've been everything to me for the last ten years of my life. I need to tell you, that if you go through with this divorce, if we get divorced, I need to protect myself. I will not be friends with you anymore."

Her: "Protect yourself from what?"

Me: "Please just listen, I will not be able to be friends with you anymore. I will never be able to contact you, see you, or talk to you ever again. That makes me extremely sad, but that's what's going to happen if we end up divorced."

Her: "That's your choice"

Me: "It is my choice"

Her: "You don't have to do that."

Me: "I know I don't." *long pause* "Those are the things that I wanted to say to you."

I went on to talk to her about the divorce papers. I said that I will take them to my lawyer, and that my decision will be based on his advice, but that right now he is advising me to counter on ground of adultery.

She got a little upset about that saying it won't accomplish anything. That I'm full of crap, that it's my choice, not the lawyers choice, and that I'm just trying to push the blame to the lawyer. She went on explaining what I needed to do to fill out the paperwork.

When all was said and done, I asked her for a hug goodbye, but she refused. I just said, okay, and I walked out.

How do you guys take this?

You did great.

Did she watch you walk away from behind?

Did she see you pull out the opposite way than home?


For a 28 year old...that was fantastic. See...if you do divorce you will know you did all you could. You put the cards on the table for sure and didn't just bite your tongue hoping she'd come back to you.'


Way to man up.

Protect yourself from what?

The perfect answer maybe: "Watching someone you love throw their life away, slowly, day by day, week by week, year by year. An adulteress's life is a miserable life that I want no part of"

She watched me leave, yes, but she didn't see me drive off.

Thanks for the Kudos .

Oh, and when we were talking about grounds for divorce, she made sure to mention AGAIN that the reason she left had nothing to do with OM... I'm so sick of hearing that from her.

I can't $#@$!W# believe this. She is texting me, having the GULL to ask me for money. She thinks I owe her money right now, because she made a mortgage payment with money that *I* gave her when she left. she is INSANE. I don't even know what to say. She is $#@!$# crazy.

This is what I sent her:

"You didn't pay the mortgage, I did with the 4k I gave you when you left. cousin's payment to you would have been to help you make May's payment, which you did not make, I did. Your financial issues are not my concern anymore, as you've definitely let me know that you do not plan to help me with both our mortgages you have left me with. No, I am now obligated to take responsibility for both mortgages that are under your name. You will now get a free awesome credit rating I will continue to give you at the cost of extreme financial stress to me. If you want to talk about our marriage, then your finances *will then* become my concern again. Are you saying you are not going to pay me for your car and school?"

Since she only makes $11/hour, I am just realizing that if OM gets fired from my letters, she is just simply not going to be able to survive. $11/hour is just nothing. You can't survive on that. She doesn't even have a high school diploma. Reality is going to hit her like a ton of bricks. I think you guys are right that she is going to hit bottom big time.

edit: Okay I was able to convince her using indisputable logic of why I don't owe her ANYTHING. She finally just said "Fine." she said she will still pay me for car / school.

And I say I'll flap my arms and fly to the moon. It's worth about as much as what a wayward promises in the fog.

Get that in writing if you can.

Another thing I noticed today when I met with my wife is that her acne was worse than I have ever seen it before. Her face was plastered in makeup but you could still see acne just everywhere. I wonder if this is an indication of how stressed out she is.

You've returned serve and have not enabled her to divorce on her terms. Good job, Odd.

You did a terrific job of sticking to the script. The only thing I would have left out was the part about not being in romantic love with her. But no biggie. The rest was really well done.

Her contention that it is you, and not her lawyer, filing for divorce under grounds of adultery is true, of course. And that's ok. That's part of the stick of Plan A. If it comes up again, I would say you're right, and then change the subject. No point in arguing.

She would LOVE to argue with you, because then it'll just prove in her mind what a nasty, controlling jerk you are and she's justified in leaving you.

Kill her with kindness.

She is really hung up on the whole "I am trying to control" her thing. I feel like it would be good to send her a text explaining to her that while I understand that it seems like I am trying to control her, I am not. That I am simply trying times protect my wife. Just not sure how to word it.

OJ,
Okay, my opinion. You have received excellent advice here. At this point, however, think you are allowing yourself to become too dependent on it - not making a move without reviewing it here first. OJ, most of us here were all age 28 at some point in time. I assume that most of us did not face adultery at that age, but we probably faced other challenges in regard to our families. In my case it was the onset of manic-depression for my wife. It was very shocking and unsettling. I would also have to say that most of us learned as we faced these traumas and/or challenges that we needed to continue to grow and develop us as an individual despite any pain. This means focusing on our self development to become better equipped (and, more attractive if you like) to help another person - spouse, child, parent, friend or stranger.

The advice here is great, as long as you can incorporate it into your own plan and act on it as You. I am just concerned that you're constantly reacting to your ww in a cookbook manner, and not the real You. Needing a coach to advise you what to say and how to act when meeting with her today just tells me that maybe you two were really not that close. She is your wife - you know here better than anyone! So, take the advice, but start incorporating it and use it to become more decisive and more perceptive.

Other thing - stop constantly thinking about her and what she is doing at every moment. I know - easier said than done. Others have advised you this. More, focus on where you want to be five, ten years from now. Yeah, you're 28, but time passes fast. Do you want more education for a different or better career?. Then start planning now. Do you want to take this time to develop yourself in terms of your talents and desires - gourmet cooking, spiritual life, travel, etc. Then start participating and learning now.

I know that it is very important to you to win your wife back. But, it is equally important to win yourslf back.

Tom

You're doing great, OJ. You and I could hang out...of that, I'm certain. Keep up the good fight.

Tom, thanks for the advice. The truth is though, I don't know how to talk to my wife anymore because she is a completely different person. I use you guys to know how to talk to this alien, lol.

OJ, no guarantees but I suspect things are crumbling in affairland now. All of the problems that come with reality have got to be having an effect on the affair. Now they have to worry about money, a place to live, jobs, etc. Your W knows she can't depend on the OM to take care of her.

What is this about her car payment and student loan? You are not paying any of her bills, are you?