Any responses I choose to give her will be kind and loving and hopeful in nature.

Odd,
You had at least 7 people here tell you to stop responding.

Why did you choose to not follow that advice?

To tell you the truth I'm starting to get a little creeped out by your inabliity to back off for a while. It smacks of desperation and control to me. What do you think it says to your wife?

To be honest I feel like I get mixed signals. Sometimes people tell me to back off, but then sometimes people tell me I need to have as many kind interactions with my wife as possible.

Just please go easy on me. I promise I am trying to follow advice as best as possible.

We want you to have positive interactions with her, but NOT to get into a debate contest with her. That is why you should avoid responding to her fogbabble unless there is a way to turn it into a positive interaction.

How far have you got with your discussions with your lawyer regarding suing OM for infidelity???

I am capable of being nice and loving to her, but she doesn't want it. She responds negatively just about every time.

This is normal and expected from a WW.

So I just have to hit and run then basically? Say nice things, and as soon as she responds badly just get out of there! ya?

Is it also normal for a WW to say "I AM NEVER COMING BACK - I DON'T WANT YOU" 100 times?

So I just have to hit and run then basically? Say nice things, and as soon as she responds badly just get out of there! ya?

Is it also normal for a WW to say "I AM NEVER COMING BACK - I DON'T WANT YOU" 100 times?

No word about the letters I sent... Grrrr... Frustrating that they have just been ignoring me.

Here is her long winded reply to that e-mail.

I understand that you feel you need to protect me. But what are you trying to protect me from? Myself? Sort of...and OM too. From completing the choice to live a miserable adulterous life based upon the pursuit of "feeling" happy instead of doing what is right and honoring your commitments. Why is my ending our marriage necessarily a bad thing? Because marriages and people aren't disposableFor you, for now, it is, for me, it is not. I understand your "feelings" currently but "feelings" change. "Feelings" aren't truth.

I haven't brought this up, because I wanted to spare your feelings, NOW you want to spare my feelings, where was that sentiment BEFORE you started your emotional affair with OM back in [December/January/February]. Honey, it's not your words that hurt me...it's your deceitful behavior and continued lies that hurt me. I remain willing to discuss all this sorted hurtful affair business in a reasonable calm manner as we attempt to rebuild our marriage but now I feel it needs to be said. "NOW" ...sure wish "now" would have occurred before you began you relationship with OM in [blank ??? month] BS, I'm happier now than I can ever remember being with you, or before you, for that matter. The intoxicating excitement of an illicit love affair certainly has it's highlights I suppose but nothing compares to the happiness we both felt making our vows to one another on our perfect wedding day xx/aaa/200X. Your brain, in it's attempt to justify your behavior may be trying to block such out but your smile that day I remember as captivating and blissful. I will never forget it. You were simply radiant that day. I was happy the day I moved out, before ANYTHING ever happened with OM. Don't mistake horniness and anticipation of something strange for happy. I instantly felt like I was free of a relationship that was technically a marriage, but to me felt hollow and robotic. Of course it did when you spent all of your time and efforts on a new romantic interest. Marriage is hard enough with two people in it, add a third person and it's impossible. I was generally happy, that part is true, and I've said it over and over again, if I hadn't of been, it would have been that much easier for me to leave. So your saying I have a chance? We can be "happy" again. Wouldn't that be the best outcome here...being happy with the guy you already happen to be married to? That being said, I believe I am a pretty optimistic, and overall happy person, and I didn't truly understand what a happy marriage should be. So if I had cheated on you first...I could have blamed you for not making me happy and it would have been your fault if we got divorced? Neither of us knew what we were doing but apparently while I was trying you had already quit. Because of that, it was pretty easy for me, for a long time, to go through the motions, to just accept that this was my life, you were [strickout "were" and type in - "ARE"] my husband, and our dysfunctions were a part of our relationship. What you call dysfunctions are actually just differences that make a marriage work in the long run. We compliment each other. As folksy as it sounds...we complete each other. Why else would God bring us together. We were meant to be and those dysfunctions aren't our weaknesses but our strength. They were normal, and nothing to worry about. (Ray and Debra from Everybody Loves Raymond come to mind.) But I looked at *friend couple*, even *suitor in waiting couple*, for a time, and questioned, "Why aren't we like them?". "Why don't I want to be with BS all the time?", "Why would I rather be with *suitor in waiting*, or other friends, if I have a choice?", "Why am I so irritable around him all the time?". I didn't want to feel that way, I didn't want to be bitchy, and a lot of the time, I ignored many of the things you did that bothered me, but I didn't want to live like that. We weren't perfect. No relationship is. However, ignoring things that bothered you instead of bringing them to my attention is conflict avoiding. That's on you. I can't fix what you don't address with me. We are a young couple that didn't know how to be married. But we can learn. I didn't want to settle anymore, we're just not a good fit. We don't work well together as a couple, we are not compatible, in a lot of ways. You don't want to "settle" but you choose to live with and "settle" upon a extramarital relationship with sex addicted broke underemployed loser who [smokes, gambles, views porn, masturbates daily, etc] who also cheats on his now cancerous wife numerous times? You will NEVER win this argument as I am by far the better man than OM. I might be a bit young and naive but unlike Mrs. OM, at least you knew where I was every night and I never gave you cause to worry about an STD

You know that you are not an observant person So says the person in adulterous relationship with a complete loser, you are not a thoughtful person I may not be a hallmark hubby but you've certainly underestimated my passion for our marriage. When push comes to shove, you'll remember I fought for you and didn't give up on us without a fight, these are facts, I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, it just is. No I am not a mind reader. There were better ways than having an emotional and sexual affair with OM to bring this to my attention. I can say this confidently, having known you for over ten years now. That is why it does not surprise me that you believe I am making a huge mistake, that you are, for some reason, the best possible option for me right now. right now and hereafter...forever even. One way or another you'll see. If you divorce me...you'll come to regret it. BS, you have been practically oblivious to the state of our marriage, you have taken it for granted, you have not been paying attention. I acknowledge and apologize for my neglectfulness. It wasn't intentional. I thought I was doing what I supposed to be doing. I failed to meet some of your basic emotional needs and left a hole in your heart that was easy for OM to exploit for his sexual prurient interests. It's not like you were perfect or knew what you were doing either but as the leader of this family I take responsibility. It is and will remain my deepest regret that I didn't learn how to be a better husband and also to protect you from outsiders earlier. Our friends were not surprised by my decision to leave, they were aware, they noticed things, they KNEW that I was not happy. Even they can now say that we were not a good fit, they can see that, why can't you? You've kind of been checked out of your friendships here for awhile all wrapped up with OM but to the extent any of them have said it means they are either just saying what they think you want to hear or going along reluctantly with what you tell them to think. People are scared to oppose you right now and I don't necessarily blame them. They either agree with you or you'll toss them out to the curb just like me. Then again, God certainly felt we are a good fit. Why else did he bring us together? God doesn't make mistakes, does He? Besides, every day compatibility isn't an intrinsic characteristic, rather compatibility is something that is supposed to be cultivated within a marriage. Something neither one of us did very well but we can certainly learn TOGETHER versus leaving one another and making the same mistakes with the next relationship.

You used the analogy of me burning alive, (dramatic much, btw?). A comparable situation comes to mind; your leaving the church. How do you think your parents felt about that, at least initially? Do you think they believed, they KNEW, that you were making a huge mistake? Possibly the biggest mistake of your life? They still believe, I'm sure, that you are on the wrong path, that you will eventually wake up and realize the error of your ways and return to the church. Do you appreciate the way they've handled your choices? Do you think you would have the relationship you do with them if they had tried to pressure you? I believe they did the right thing in respecting your decisions, as an intelligent adult, they understand that you will ultimately do what is best for you, even if you do occasionally make mistakes. Are you asking me to respect your betrayal, deceit and adultery? So, like my parents did with me, I can maintain a relationship with you? Is that what this is about...you need my approval? I'm sorry, honey, but I can't make this OK. You divorce me and this is between you and God. I won't be around to watch. Besides...I only left a church. A building. I didn't abandon my faith. I never betrayed my God nor my parents. They may not have like it and thought I made a mistake but I didn't obliterate anyone than I vowed to love, honor or cherish for the rest of my life. Adultery and simply disappointing your parents by leaving a church are in no way synonymous whereas, sadly, adultery and fire are.

Despite the circumstances, or what you perceive the circumstances to have been, surrounding my decision to leave, it was not sudden, it was not impulsive, it was a long, thought-out process of questions, debates, and discussions with myself and close friends and family. I apologize that you could not be a part of this, but it was not your decision to make. Load of crap. When did this allegedly happen? If it did happen it would have been incredible disrespectful to talk about me and make decisions involving my life without whispering a word about it to me. Hints don't count. I had the right to know the truth about my life, didn't I? However, the reason I know this didn't happen is because you were attached to your phone and computer texting, talking to and emailing with OM from January until the day you moved out. I saw the cell phone bills. Over 5,000 text messages alone to OM from about xxx/20?? until xxx/20??. I saw about 10 phone calls and texts messages with other people. Your mom was constantly calling me asking where you were and what you were doing because you weren't talking to her. You even missed her birthday. Your friends were calling me too. So the ONLY person you WERE talking to was OM and thus, HE is the only person you relied upon when making this decision. Others may have been TOLD after the fact along with a wheel-barrel full of nonsensical rationalizations and justifications like "we just don't fit", "I've never been happy with [oddjob]" or the classic adulteress's line "I think I settled", but they weren't "consulted with" as if you really weren't sure about your feelings for OM and what you just "couldn't not do". It was not about any of the changes you've made, I'm so tired of repeating myself, please understand this. And this is one of the main reasons my attorney and I have likely decided it's necessary to countersue for divorce on the grounds of adultery. This continued lying and deception. Your draft divorce doesn't even mention OM's name. I wonder if you just can't believe it yourself but carrying on an emotional affair with OM for months, sharing your secrets and discussing your husband with another married man for months, having sexual chats and phone sex with OM, spending time alone with OM doing who knows what, dating OM and eventually having sex with OM IS adultery and is the reason you are divorcing me. If you are going to do it...you are going to do it honestly. You are leaving me FOR OM. He wants you. He's dumping his wife to be with you. This could all potentially go a lot smoother if you were just honest with me instead of forcing me to have to take both of your depositions, submit written interrogatories, hire forensic accountants to determine how much of OUR marital money you spent on OM, finding out whether OM was ever in my house or in my bed, along with a hundred other questions I'd like answered so I can determine the truth about my life and move on. I just want the truth.

In my experiences, and apparently in *suitor in waiting's*, his gf, and all of our other friends' as well, you do not want to hear it. You don't want to hear what they have to say, and you certainly don't want to hear what I have to say. I've pretty much gone insane, just fyi. All you care about is 'the affair'. Why is this making you insane. You are sooo happy. What's wrong with me telling everyone about you and OM? If it's so wonderful why wouldn't you want the world to know? You wanted something or someone to blame, and now you have it. I hold you both accountable but I love you so you get off easy. I don't wish this upon you but unfortunately, your misery will end up being your punishment. It's just the natural consequence when one abandons the spouse of their youth and later regrets it. However, no matter when your affair relationship goes up in flames (and they always do)...if we end up divorced I will be sure to expose him to whomever I can wherever he goes indefinitely. There is even going to be a website where for people to get the facts about OM. Just google his name it won't be hard to find. Sure most people won't care but there are a lot of decent people out there that don't or won't associate with known adulterers. I hope it never comes to that The affair is separate from our separation and divorce. No it isn't and you are either going to admit that or I'm going to prove it in a court of lawThe timing is an unfortunate coincidence that you can't seem to wrap your head around.I may be young, naive and too trusting of you but I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. You didn't just move out one day and fall on some random penis that same night which just happened to be a guy you work with and text 8000 times in the previous 6 months, did you? I'm sure it feels so much better to point your finger at OM, than to accept that you and I just weren't working.We committed...VOWED to love each other "in good times and bad". Marriage is work. I've learned that and so much more these last few months working with my therapist. To the extent it wasn't working (it's not like I was beating you, abusing drugs or alcohol, or verbally assaulting you in any manner we just need to tweak a few things. I mean just a few months ago we were trying to get pregnant. Don't you think it's a tad "coincidental" that you NOW...now that you have this illicit relationship with Mrs. _OM's____ husband that all the sudden we "don't work" and you were miserable? Can't you see how you are rewriting our history so that you can conveniently pursue, have sex with and potentially commit to OM? I believe in time, when you find someone that's crazy about you, you will fully understand what a marriage should be.Should you divorce me, I'm sure I will. I've learned a lot about myself and marriage in this process and as a result any subsequent marriage I may have will necessary be better. We do better when we know better. Considering also my biblical grounds for divorcing you, God will hopefully bless me with another wonderful woman. What have you learned? No matter where you go...there YOU will be. If you take vows again, say with Mrs. _____ husband, are you REALLY gonna mean it this time? What happens when you have a bad day, week or month and you aren't happy, are you going to cast aside OM because HE wasn't making you happy enough or happy "right now"? What if you get pregnant and can't have sex for awhile and you're on bedrest...do you trust OM not to find a replacement hole? The guy has a crazy appetite for sex AND apparently variety. How can you ever trust him? If and when you two break up...how will you trust the next strang man you let into your heart. You'll never know...truly know someone like you know me again. You can't go back to being 16, 17 heck 25 years old with any other man. Your history will be gone and you'll be looking for love from complete strangers.

I would also like to say, that it was never my intention for us to have the relationship we do now. If you recall, before I left, it was uncomfortable, but we were able to carry on a normal conversation, even laugh a little. I was shell-shocked. I was so distraught, hurt and desperate that I was doing whatever you wanted in hopes you'd come back to me. We weren't laughing and getting along in my mind for ONE SINGLE SECOND during that time. I was faking it out of fear of abandonment. It was the absolute worst moments of my life and I'm sorry I didn't protest and fight for you immediately. Technically, yes, I cheated on you. There you go saying "technically" again. It either is or isn't cheating. We either ARE or ARE NOT married. The word Technically doesn't make it any less hurtful or painful. Just admit it now. That you had a months long (or longer) affair with OM that started on x/20?? which cultivated and turned into a inappropriate sexual relationship on XX/20xx including phone sex, mutual masturbation, sexual innuendo, love note and declarations of love and subsequently a full on physical affair commencing on xx/20?? and continuing today. Admit it now or in court later From my point of view, I was done, and I had moved out of the house, before anything happened. I understand that this is not 'acceptable' to you. That's fine, I get that. I chalked up a lot of the crazy [censored] you've done to the fact that I cheated, but you should know that it is because of that that I can barely look you in the eye, you are not the person I married, it's like a switch was flipped, and you went to crazy-town. You are right, I'm better than the person you married. Most men in my position would just roll over and take it. They'd sit around waiting for the affair to end hoping to get another chance while OM's and their wife giggle about him behind his back for being so pathetic OR they run out to the nearest bar abandon their own vows and screw the first willing warm blooded woman they can find. I'm better than those boys. I am manning up here and fighting for my wife and family. Of course, you don't like that because I'm interfering in your illicit affair. I seem to be making you unhappy when my apparently my ONLY job as your husband is to make you happy. You truly expect me to be happy for you. Like you are entitled to it. No. You are either going to reconcile with me soon or divorce me over the next two or so years but I don't have to accept it, cooperate or be happy about it. You see, I MATTER TOO. I'm a person too. I have feelings to. What about MY happiness? Why doesn't that matter to you? Why won't YOU do what I want? Why do YOU get to control me? That being said, the cage door is absolutely wide open. You are free to leave. I'm not your keeper or your controller...in fact, you are already gone emotionally, I recognize that, but someday when you look back at your life an, these moments you will miss the husband of your youth. The husband you grew up with and shared so much history with. The guy that knew you when and you shared many wonderful moments with...but what you will remember the most and be most impressed by is that HE FOUGHT FOR YOU. Despite being kicked in the teeth in the most obscene and unjust way by you...he was still, for awhile, willing to forgive you, reconcile and recommit his life to you. Unfortunately, it appears you wish to throw away your one true great love affair for a POS low life common adulterer. Calling OM's parents? Yeah, I was hoping they could talk some sense into their boy. They were so supportive. Please be warned that if you ever end up around them that they are merely tolerating your presence to maintain a relationship with their uncontrollable son. They ain't to keen on adultery themselves and they are not buying your paramours story any more than I am Telling them my house was full of alcohol and marijuana? Um, it was. I have pictures. Are you making that statement for someone elses benefit because you know that I know and saw that stuff? Who else was this letter's intended audience?Changing the locks on the house when you knew I still had things there? Um, I didn't make you leave. If you recall...I asked you to stay with me. I don't control you but you also don't get to walk in and out of my home. I'm never going to pay for a roof over OM"s head or have OM in my home when I'm not there. Never again..that isWhen the dog was there, for F*** sake? What the hell? Moving in, suddenly, when we had agreed to be separated? I didn't agree to anything. I did what you told me to thinking that might help the most getting you back, but once I woke up to what was going on around me, I thought better of it. You have no idea how badly you hurt me. I didn't eat or sleep for over a week. I've lost ___ lbs and a ton of hair...lol. I was in no condition to agree to anything. Besides...you never gave me the benefit of truth so that's your bad. I didn't know you were asking to separate so you could screw and sleep with OM in our home. That was kind of important information to share with your husbandApparently inundating our friends, and my family, with messages on Facebook? Asking *suitor in waiting* not to enable me? What does that even mean? Clearly you are making the biggest mistake of your life. Calling it a "mistake" doesn't even do it justice. I asked [suitor in waiting] to be a friend to our marriage and to not support or have anything to do with OM. He's obviously chosen otherwise. That's a shame...I thought he was a standup guy and friend. Someday when he's married he may understand better the significance. I'm not some ex-boyfriend and this isn't middle school. Again, marriage matters. Do you honestly believe that I require any kind of support from my friends, or anyone for that matter, to make the decisions I've made or am making? Do you think if *friend* told me I couldn't bring OM to a BBQ that I would end our relationship, and come running back to you? How does this make any sense to you? You say you're not desperate, so what is your excuse? Absent your relationship with OM we would still be together today, maybe even pregnant with our first child by now. He has twisted his way into your heart and torn you away from me. You are right that even were Mrs. _____ husband to drop dead or some horrible accident were to befall him tomorrow, we might not reconcile. The damage has already been done but I'd be willing to risk it and try. "Feelings" take time to develop and recover. Women generally can only love one man at a time so if OM's 'in'...I'm "out" and I realize that FEELS absolutely permanent...but a year ago you loved me. Feelings aren't truth. If we were to talk, spend a lot of time together, send each other thousands of text messages and notes and address some of our communication issues, etc, your feelings for me MAY return. We've known each other 10 years...if OM were dead or out of the picture somehow you could at least give us a real shot.

Talk to your lawyer, do what you feel is best for you, and let's end this so we can move on. Moving on before we have explored every opportunity possible to save our marriage isn't my priority. Evidently, I love you enough to fight for you. Tell you what...since OM isn't playing a part of our divorce...how about going to marital counseling with me for one year. During such year you move back in with me and you don't see or speak with OM. After one year, if we haven't fixed things to your satisfaction, I'll sign off on the divorce. It'd be easier and likely cheaper than fighting me for up to two years on a "for cause" divorce case. OM can wait. He's got his own divorce to hassle with. I'll also take down the website.I do not need your protection You most certainly do. , I don't want it, I'm not asking for it, so stop doing what you think is best for me. That's not your decision to make, it never was. I made my vows to you AND to God. You don't control me and can't tell me what to do anymore than I can control you. I intend to keep my vows.

Your committed husband, oddjob

p.s. - I'll be out the rest of the day so if you respond realize I won't be getting back to you for awhile. I've got to focus on my job